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weisguy119

Thrawn just dropped and Raider Class Corvettes are now canon

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The empire needs smaller capital ships.  It doesn't make since that your only options were mammoth star destroyers and single place fighters with nothing in between.  I personally like the raider, It makes since stylistically and thematically, and it's well balanced in epic play.  If you are going to control large areas of space, you need patrol craft like decimators and Raiders to keep an eye on things.  

Now, you want to talk about lazy design, that would be the punisher!

Drops mic and runs for the door

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10 hours ago, Forgottenlore said:

Is there any description or anything that would solidly indicate that the mention specifically refers to the FFG ship and not just a reuse of a very imperial sounding name?

I haven't read the book yet.  It dropped late last night and, just before bed, I did a quick Kindle text search based off someone's claim on a forum somewhere last week that they were in the book.  The search came back with something about two "Raider-Class Corvettes". I don't see how it could be anything else. Apparently, the guy got an advance copy of the book and was not lying.  He said they're just briefly mentioned during a battle but that's enough to cement them as canon.

Edited by weisguy119

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I just figured the Raider used the huge panels to get more speed than just a reactor could provide.  Making it faster and higher powered than the CR90.  I think the idea of it since it is small enough to make some sense.

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I love my Raider. I love it for its looks, I love it because it is now canon, I love it because it was my 50th birthday present from my nearest and dearest. So stop the Raider hate; love the pointy, solar-panelled beauty that makes me smile every time I it put on the board.

I am Doc and I am a Raider lover.

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Well, tactically the raider is a bit stupid given it's role, but this is a very pulpy universe so it doesn't need it - and quite frankly the official canon is so barebones in some respects, I'm glad to see it grow in anyway. Also it's good on FFG for producing something with LFL that authors draw on - it harkens back to the original Thrawn Trilogy and Zahn being handed a lot of the old WEG RPG books to use for background material. 

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11 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

Well, tactically the raider is a bit stupid given it's role, but this is a very pulpy universe so it doesn't need it - and quite frankly the official canon is so barebones in some respects, I'm glad to see it grow in anyway. Also it's good on FFG for producing something with LFL that authors draw on - it harkens back to the original Thrawn Trilogy and Zahn being handed a lot of the old WEG RPG books to use for background material. 

Well, FFG had to get approval from Lucasfilm on the design of the Raider. The fact that it's now canon means the story group liked it beyond the $$$ signs flashing through their eyes. That said, yes, it does very much have that same feel of the old WEG books I loved to collect and still occasionally search out.

I'm not one that's entirely fond of the designed appearance of the Raider, the TIE panels bug me a bit at the scale the ship is supposed to be, but I'm not at all displeased that it's now canon. I know a few people who absolutely love it. It'll make me feel better putting it down on the map as well, as I grin like a maniac and launch Imperial assaults. I don't always play Imperials, but when I do, I play epic.

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I mean, the panels mean it can have more sophisticated weapons than normal for its size because it saves on reactor space. 

My complaints are mostly logical. It's an anti-fighter ship for fast attack and long range patrol (which is technically the duty of a Light Cruiser, not a corvette, but, y'know, Star Wars). Yet all it's weapons are fixed forward or dorsal, so it has no ventral coverage and no aft coverage. It has no fighter complement of it's own, requiring it to be assigned escorts from other ships or utilize expensive and rare models of fighters which have long range capability. The Lancer-class frigate is a much more sensible design, it's basically a flying brick ringed with quad-laser turrets on all sides. 

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7 hours ago, Odanan said:

What?!!?!?

You heard me.  TIE panels on a Star Destroyer is dumber 'n hell!

7 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

I'm still waiting to see someone put the Raider panels on a Tie Interceptor.  Make it so...

I'm still waiting to see someone put the Raider panels on a Decimator.  That would actually look awesome.

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9 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

The thing I find slightly weird about the aesthetic is that the 'ball and solar panels' and the 'pointy spear' design aesthetics are in-canon different coprporations - sienar fleet systems vs kuat drive yards - so it's a little weird when the two aesthetics get kitbashed together.

But I do like the look of it a lot so IDGAF really.

The Imperial board of procurement and logistics has mandated that all fighters designed after the V-Wing will use the standard Imperial Ballanced Algorithmic Local Logistics (or "BALL") design. 

Noncompliance will be punished. Thank you for your compliance.

Edited by Punning Pundit

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In the X-wing game raiders are fine as a balance to the CR-90.

In canon, I'm not sure they fit. SW was a space opera that became a cultural phenomenon. The opening scene of A New Hope with the ISD passing overhead is meant to drive home how big the bad guys are. Imperial visuals are meant to remind us that the rebels are a beleaguered band of freedom fighters. Even the interdictors serve as the bully's sidekick snitch. The empire is supposed to have 25,000 ISD, why do they need smaller capital ships? A star destroyer shows up, overpowers the opposition and moves on. if one can't solve the problem, send 3 and on and on till the enemy collapses under the weight of force. While cruisers and corvettes fit the games to provide balance, the galactic civil war was not a balanced conflict. If there had been a squadron of raiders at the battle of Scarif it would have gone far differently. The hammerhead corvette would never have gotten close to the crippled star destroyer.

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10 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

The thing I find slightly weird about the aesthetic is that the 'ball and solar panels' and the 'pointy spear' design aesthetics are in-canon different coprporations - sienar fleet systems vs kuat drive yards - so it's a little weird when the two aesthetics get kitbashed together.

But I do like the look of it a lot so IDGAF really.

Those specific corporations were nationalized after the creation of the Empire. It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to see elements from different design teams brought in to work on a single project.

You bring in some Sienar energy technicians because Sienar ships may actually run on starlight, and you pull some Kuati naval engineers so that the ship has that nice sleek arrowhead look and can take a beating. Ya put them together and them that you'll be personally "watching over" their families until you get a good ship, and boom! Energy efficient, durable, anti-starfighter corvette.

Put on a clean coat of Imperial Grey and you're ready for business.


also to whom it may concern....


I've explained the solar panels so many times it's getting ridiculous. Energy-cheap artificial gravity + inertial dampeners = weightless, massless, ship. Ion thruster has high thrust velocity, low power requirements, but low impulse. A cheap artificial gravity generator like you find in a flying butler droid would allow a ship like a TIE to run its main engine nigh-indefinitely with little propellant. The solar collectors may be utilizing different frequency of light or background radiation that are higher-power than photons. Mass Effect did it, so can Star Wars.

Really there are so many ways to make a ship like that work given the previously-demonstrated technical advances in Star Wars that if you are still complaining about the solar panels you probably just didn't like TIEs to begin with and want to justify it. I mean come on, "Those solar panels can't work." is an old, hackneyed argument that belongs in the same bin with "sound in space" and "flying movement". It's old, it's been gotten over, explained away, and buried under 30 tons of dead horsemeat.

Please, go watch the Expanse. It's a great show, it has what you want; for the love of dayum don't put the same old gripe about "MAH SIE-ENSE" up here for the eleventy-billionth time.

Edited by OneKelvin

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Remember the recent Rebels episode "Iron Squadron"? The kids kept thinking they were dealing with a Star Destroyer, and being freaked out when something bigger came along. That was a funny scene, but I think it captures a sort of psycholical truth that helps keep the Empire terrified and in line. Whatever you do, whatever you think you _have_ done, the Empire can send something bigger, something badder. It can send more. 

I imagine a typical Imperial Destroyer Group looking something like this:

1 Star Destroyer
1-2 Arquitens Light Cruiser (Fire support)
3-4 Raiders (Close support for the Destroyer)
~12 or Gozanties (Fleet Train)

What makes this work- in my mind- is how fractal it makes the Group. The Admiral could detail off a Light Cruiser, a Raider, and 3 Gozanites for a powerful strike force, while still maintaining the safety and operational capability of the Destroyer itself. The Gozanties serve the dual role of providing logistics and fighter support for both the Raiders and Light Cruiser when they're in extended missions. I know- the Raiders are supposed to provide the anti Fighter coverage. I imagine that they're _close_ fighter coverage, and you'd want the Gozantis to provide either bombers (for anti shipping), or Interceptors (for long range fighter defense.) 

For quick Smash and Run operations, (say, against a smuggler's nest) a Cruiser Commodore could further divide her forces by sending a Raider and a pair of Gozanties. The Raider would be configured for long range bombardment, and the Gozanties would provide fighter support. 

And if you just needed to move stuff around- say a shipment of Kyber Crystals or a few prisoners, you could use the Gozanties.

That is why the Empire has so many different ships at so many different sizes. Different jobs call for different tools. Being everywhere at once means that any opposition will have no idea what they will be facing until they are actually in the middle of a fight. That's terrifying. 

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Also IRL navies have different "classes" of ships for various weights, lengths and roles - and some of these designations are as old as the age of sail, making them old as pulpy swashbuckling (not discounting the impact WW2 movies had on style, aesthetic and handling of war sequences in Star Wars - there's a vast dramatic difference from running into a German or Japanese PT boat, a destroyer and then something big like a battleship or carrier)

A Corvette (FC) is the smallest class of proper warship (Including under the Anaxes War College System), designated for close patrol (with orbital or in-system patrol closest analogs to a coastal patrol) or a fast attack role depending on the configuration. It guards/patrols things, or it shoots ships. Typically they are not suited to be a "capital" or flag ship but SW plays fast and loose with how big you need to be.

A Light Cruiser (CL) is a small ship which is equipped for proper cruising duties - they are sufficiently armed, armored and equipped to handle long-range patrols (such as shipping lanes) or picket and scout duty and can be configured to be easily capable of both. 

It should also be noted, the Arquitens is capable of escorting itself - it has a rack to hold 2-3 fighters, which allows it to protect against enemy fighters even though it lacks point defense weapons. A Raider has anti-fighter weapons and anti-ship guns (and can switch them around to fill roles better), but is still limited to it's own firing coverage and maneuvering. If it wanted to have that kind of flexibility and force projection, it would have to drag along a couple of Gozantis or something as support ships and carriers. Even back in the WEG days, the Empire has had a lot of flexibility in it's battle lines and fleet composition to handle different tasks, and while limited by the realistic limits of modeling and rendering, Rebels has reinforced imperial flexibility. One could argue that physical modeling limitations limited the OT in the first place. 

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14 hours ago, eMeM said:

Or maybe it will be completely forgotten after a throwaway mention in a novel, just like another terrible design, the Lancer-class?

The Lancer is one of my favourite designs. I'd be glad to see it on the screen. If just to annoy the haters.

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5 hours ago, Punning Pundit said:

Remember the recent Rebels episode "Iron Squadron"? The kids kept thinking they were dealing with a Star Destroyer, and being freaked out when something bigger came along. That was a funny scene, but I think it captures a sort of psycholical truth that helps keep the Empire terrified and in line. Whatever you do, whatever you think you _have_ done, the Empire can send something bigger, something badder. It can send more. 

I imagine a typical Imperial Destroyer Group looking something like this:

1 Star Destroyer
1-2 Arquitens Light Cruiser (Fire support)
3-4 Raiders (Close support for the Destroyer)
~12 or Gozanties (Fleet Train)

 

Welp, now I have to do exactly this build style in Armada... though I think I'd have to run them all without upgrades, and cull 12 Gozantis to 8...

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6 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

Apparently the/a Battlefront II trailer has leaked, showing several prominent shots of a Raider probably in campaign play (As the protagonist appears to be an imperial). 

I so hope this is true.  If so, it's an insta-buy for me.  I love me some Raider.

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