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UndeadIchi

Bad guys getting stun locked

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hello peeps 

i am after some help, all my pc's are quite powerful 500+ xp and so have a large amount of abilities and gear but i have a problem with them getting stun locked as soon as one player gets the nemesis staggered then they just pile on the staggered until the nemesis gets to do nothing its happening most combats and although i don't mind them doing this its becoming stagnant and boring, i have sundered the weapons and equipment in the past but that lead to the eventual buying of corstosis weave so that it wouldn't happen again. i have also had multiple nemesis, all with mooks but the amount of firepower they can throw is pretty high lots of explosives and auto fire  

any ideas how to spice things up throw them a curve ball every now and then   

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2 hours ago, UndeadIchi said:

hello peeps 

i am after some help, all my pc's are quite powerful 500+ xp and so have a large amount of abilities and gear but i have a problem with them getting stun locked as soon as one player gets the nemesis staggered then they just pile on the staggered until the nemesis gets to do nothing its happening most combats and although i don't mind them doing this its becoming stagnant and boring, i have sundered the weapons and equipment in the past but that lead to the eventual buying of corstosis weave so that it wouldn't happen again. i have also had multiple nemesis, all with mooks but the amount of firepower they can throw is pretty high lots of explosives and auto fire  

any ideas how to spice things up throw them a curve ball every now and then   

Stop running it like an MMO boss fight.  Why is a Nemesis standing there alone and letting them do that?  Where are the legions of minions getting in the way?  Where is the pet Rancor?  Where are the droid HBR sentry turrets? The android decoy double with the Thermal warhead? 

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I’ve been wondering; where do all the Concussive weapons come from, in the first place? Are all of them running around with top-heavy clubs?

Dr. Viluppo is listing twelve Concussive weapons:

Two are Ion weapons, therefore Droids/Cyborgs only.

Four are Melee/Brawl weapons, either low damage or Slow Firing.

Five are single use Blast explosives, so somewhat expensive in the long run and not very precise.

Only one is a Slow Firing ranged weapon.

Then there is the Dragite Gem, very expensive and Restricted.

Oh, and only roughly one in twenty Crafting attempts with YYYYY will show the two triumph needed to create the effect.

But, notwithstanding all that, a staggered opponent can still take two manoeuvres and fight another day.

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Give the villain 2-4 ranks in Hard Headed, then they'll have a chance to completely ignore staggered effects. If they keep using explosives and auto-fire and you don't want to house rule auto-fire, then use the squad rules from the AoR GM screen for your minions, and have them in Skirmish formation so blast and auto-fire cost 1 more advantage to activate.

 

Alternatively put them in a situation where combat is not the answer, like negotiations...

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fyi, Kimber Stones are less Rare and Less Expensive and can be Modded to Concussive 1...

Otherwise  yeah, use minions and Rivals to screen the head baddie...and tack some Fear checks on top of that...use darkness, smoke whatever you can to pile on setback dice...

Use villains that aren't afraid to snipe from a distance, or to be covered by Distant Snipers, friends with Autofire and/or Grenades/-launchers. 

Equip the villain and his team as well as if not better than the PC's then have them self-destruct on death...lose the sweet loot AND deal some damage for their impertinence... 

Smart villains booby-trap their head quarters or netting points...PC's start getting shooty/stabby, *Click-Click-BOOM!*...or even some sweet, sweet Knockout Gas...unless they are Vacuum-Selaed. 

...but you get the idea, at 500xp the villains NEED to act smart...no need to get them into that position ever...and even if cornered..."How unfortunate...for my Body Double..."  

All of my Villains are reasonably intelligent, you don't get to survive long enough to become a real threat by being a mindless monster...

Edited by GandofGand

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7 hours ago, UndeadIchi said:

hello peeps 

i am after some help, all my pc's are quite powerful 500+ xp and so have a large amount of abilities and gear but i have a problem with them getting stun locked as soon as one player gets the nemesis staggered then they just pile on the staggered until the nemesis gets to do nothing its happening most combats and although i don't mind them doing this its becoming stagnant and boring, i have sundered the weapons and equipment in the past but that lead to the eventual buying of corstosis weave so that it wouldn't happen again. i have also had multiple nemesis, all with mooks but the amount of firepower they can throw is pretty high lots of explosives and auto fire  

any ideas how to spice things up throw them a curve ball every now and then   

So your PCs are attacking the target that is already locked down because.... why? Tactically, that sounds sub-optimal, especially if there are other targets that are an actual threat.

Also keep in mind that activating concussive requires two advantages. I suspect this isn't too much of an issue for your 'high level' PCs, but guaranteeing two advantages on every attack isn't easy. And they still have to actually hit the target to activate that ability, they can't just spend advantages from a missed attack. And remember that a staggered target loses its action, they don't lose their maneuvers. So they still have some tactical options available.

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5 hours ago, 2P51 said:

Stop running it like an MMO boss fight.  Why is a Nemesis standing there alone and letting them do that?  Where are the legions of minions getting in the way?  Where is the pet Rancor?  Where are the droid HBR sentry turrets? The android decoy double with the Thermal warhead? 

why do you assume i am running it like an MMO boss fight, no Nemesis was alone and where screened as much as i thought was reasonable

2 hours ago, Grimmerling said:

I’ve been wondering; where do all the Concussive weapons come from, in the first place? Are all of them running around with top-heavy clubs?

Dr. Viluppo is listing twelve Concussive weapons:

Two are Ion weapons, therefore Droids/Cyborgs only.

Four are Melee/Brawl weapons, either low damage or Slow Firing.

Five are single use Blast explosives, so somewhat expensive in the long run and not very precise.

Only one is a Slow Firing ranged weapon.

Then there is the Dragite Gem, very expensive and Restricted.

Oh, and only roughly one in twenty Crafting attempts with YYYYY will show the two triumph needed to create the effect.

But, notwithstanding all that, a staggered opponent can still take two manoeuvres and fight another day.

yeah one is a Lightsaber the PC stole off of a force wielding Night Sister, the main source is Concussion Grenades from the demolitionist  

2 hours ago, Imperial Stormtrooper said:

Give the villain 2-4 ranks in Hard Headed, then they'll have a chance to completely ignore staggered effects. If they keep using explosives and auto-fire and you don't want to house rule auto-fire, then use the squad rules from the AoR GM screen for your minions, and have them in Skirmish formation so blast and auto-fire cost 1 more advantage to activate.

 

Alternatively put them in a situation where combat is not the answer, like negotiations...

Thank you i missed that Talent thats the sort of thing i was looking for thank you. 

2 hours ago, GandofGand said:

fyi, Kimber Stones are less Rare and Less Expensive and can be Modded to Concussive 1...

Otherwise  yeah, use minions and Rivals to screen the head baddie...and tack some Fear checks on top of that...use darkness, smoke whatever you can to pile on setback dice...

Use villains that aren't afraid to snipe from a distance, or to be covered by Distant Snipers, friends with Autofire and/or Grenades/-launchers. 

Equip the villain and his team as well as if not better than the PC's then have them self-destruct on death...lose the sweet loot AND deal some damage for their impertinence... 

Smart villains booby-trap their head quarters or netting points...PC's start getting shooty/stabby, *Click-Click-BOOM!*...or even some sweet, sweet Knockout Gas...unless they are Vacuum-Selaed. 

...but you get the idea, at 500xp the villains NEED to act smart...no need to get them into that position ever...and even if cornered..."How unfortunate...for my Body Double..."  

All of my Villains are reasonably intelligent, you don't get to survive long enough to become a real threat by being a mindless monster...

i definitely will be using the self destruct idea i hadn't thought of that cheers 

most of these fights are not against the main protagonist and i do make my npc's act smart but these badguys are there to die or be captured to progress the story or have just outlived their usefulness, i just didnt want them all to go down quite so quickly

thank you very much one and all for your fantastic ideas  

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52 minutes ago, UndeadIchi said:

why do you assume i am running it like an MMO boss fight, no Nemesis was alone and where screened as much as i thought was reasonable

 

Probably because you gave an incomplete description of the situation.

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This is an old thread but a search brought me here so I wanted to mention that in the Game Master's Kit on page 27 it lists Enhanced Nemesis Combat. If you do that, then your nemesis gets a full second turn at the end of each initiative round. If they were hit with Concussive 1 they might miss the first turn, but can act normally in the second at the end of the round. If they are hitting him with concussive 2 or multiple concussive weapons then this won't be super helpful, but it's something to remember. 

I also vaguely recall a talent or something that increases the amount of advantages required to crit or apply a weapon affect to a target. Anyone know of this? Maybe I am thinking of a house rule that someone once posted. Adding that to your nemesis would make it harder for them to stun lock them unless they rolled really well.

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12 minutes ago, ianinak said:

I also vaguely recall a talent or something that increases the amount of advantages required to crit or apply a weapon affect to a target. Anyone know of this? Maybe I am thinking of a house rule that someone once posted. Adding that to your nemesis would make it harder for them to stun lock them unless they rolled really well.

I think you're thinking of Center of Being (a Force talent). It's a maneuver that increases he critical rating of attacks against the character by ranks in Center of Being.

I don't know if there's a talent that applies to Concussive etc.

I don't think your fix actually works, because the language of the weapon quality is "a number of rounds" not number of turns. This may have simply been a distinction without a difference at the time, however, as I don't think those Nemesis rules were around then. May have also been a way to account for changing initiative orders to prevent rules lawyers from gaming the system.

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