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haritos

[Serious request] Give us a balance/feedback subgroup so this very specific group of people spamming nerf threads don't ruin our forum

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Just now, Pretty Green said:

Surely you have an opinion on FFG´s decisions, as you just stated that Palpatine was too good before. Even if there are no facts to back it up.

I´m not too young, but if something I enjoy  is taking a turn to a wrong direction without proper reasoning, my knickers will get twisted.

Nope, no opinion. It, along with the other rule changes, will alter play style and squad builds and the game will continue.

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2 hours ago, thebrettski said:

If the masses were listened to, we'd all be playing t-65 vs. Gunboat.

I agree. IMO the only time masses are listened to is when they complain with their wallet, and alongside complaints sales figures also slow their increase or drop.

 

This doesn't mean there aren't some people who believe forum complaints were the driving force behind the nerfs :)

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4 hours ago, Stoneface said:

Not liking something is an invalid reason to ask for a nerf! 

Ok, i am going to nitpick here. Not trying to be snarky or anything, but not liking something is a completely valid reason to wish it out of the game or its relevance toned down. Not liking something on a game is akin to"not finding it fun or exciting to play with or against", and we are talking about a game here, everything is related to fun, so if something is not fun for a good chunk of the player pool it's completely reasonable to throw it under a bus (ie: pre-nerf phantom).  It's because they might feel their fun thinking/`playing Xwing is now less exciting than before and they will attempt to rationalize it and find answers, sometimes wrong and sometimes right, but most of the time innaccurate. If we weren't that antagonizing in the forums we could, in my opinion, silence most unproductive or unrealistic criticism/expectations about the game.

How much this forum might represent the whole Xwing community is another matter of course (and not an easy one), and i also find unreasonable to ask you for evidence that FFG does not read the forums. We know they do, but we don't know how much weight it has and probably will never know (hopefully).

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3 hours ago, DreadStar said:

Ok, i am going to nitpick here. Not trying to be snarky or anything, but not liking something is a completely valid reason to wish it out of the game or its relevance toned down. Not liking something on a game is akin to"not finding it fun or exciting to play with or against", and we are talking about a game here, everything is related to fun, so if something is not fun for a good chunk of the player pool it's completely reasonable to throw it under a bus (ie: pre-nerf phantom).  It's because they might feel their fun thinking/`playing Xwing is now less exciting than before and they will attempt to rationalize it and find answers, sometimes wrong and sometimes right, but most of the time innaccurate. If we weren't that antagonizing in the forums we could, in my opinion, silence most unproductive or unrealistic criticism/expectations about the game.

How much this forum might represent the whole Xwing community is another matter of course (and not an easy one), and i also find unreasonable to ask you for evidence that FFG does not read the forums. We know they do, but we don't know how much weight it has and probably will never know (hopefully).

How can you say that something popular that's facerolling lists is not fun for a good chunk of players?

If everyone is flying the phantom, for whatever reason, then that means that a lot of people are enjoying it. You are contradicting yourself and making me type the most obvious sentence ever.

So no, the phantom wasn't nerfed because more people disliked it than liked it. It was nerfed because playtesting found it too strong. Liking or disliking is a ridiculous metric, because it's zero sum. 

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19 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Personally, I would like to see all redesigning of current components threads go away.  No meta, no recosting, no nerf, no buff.

Ideas for new cards and titles are fun and creative topics; discussion of gameplay is what we should be doing.

Leave the designing to the designers.  If you have a new idea that's yours, share it.  But if it already in the game, it's a done deal.

  Talk about how to defeat it, not how to redesign it.

YAH DAT!!!

:D

 

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I don't mind people asking for nerfs if they can justify their reasoning. However I feel it gives a bad first impression for anyone new on the forum to be met with endless negative threads. A seperate subforum would be great, as it keeps the negativity in one place while keeping the conversation going.

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3 hours ago, DreadStar said:

so if something is not fun for a good chunk of the player pool it's completely reasonable to throw it under a bus (ie: pre-nerf phantom).

No it's not, and it's also not why anything in this game has been nerfed.  Everything FFG has done was due to the warping of the meta, and not because of complaints here.  Naturally people here will complain about stuff that warps the meta, but that is again not the cause behind the change.

So while a number of these threads may point to things that need to be changed, none of them will actually cause any change in the game.

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14 minutes ago, Porkchop Express said:

I don't mind people asking for nerfs if they can justify their reasoning. However I feel it gives a bad first impression for anyone new on the forum to be met with endless negative threads. A seperate subforum would be great, as it keeps the negativity in one place while keeping the conversation going.

I just had to quip, Porchop Express is an awesome forum name! ....I am known for bunny trails.

Carry on....now where's my tea?

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25 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

I just had to quip, Porchop Express is an awesome forum name! ....I am known for bunny trails.

Carry on....now where's my tea?

Haha, I hadn't noticed that until you pointed it out! 

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43 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

I just had to quip, Porchop Express is an awesome forum name! ....I am known for bunny trails.

Carry on....now where's my tea?

I had to think hard about what to put as my name after I was shocked to find 'Han Solo' was already taken.

As Jack Burton always says....

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49 minutes ago, VanorDM said:

No it's not, and it's also not why anything in this game has been nerfed.  Everything FFG has done was due to the warping of the meta, and not because of complaints here.  Naturally people here will complain about stuff that warps the meta, but that is again not the cause behind the change.

So while a number of these threads may point to things that need to be changed, none of them will actually cause any change in the game.

To your first point, then explain it to me why it's better to keep game being unfun for a majority to appease a minority. and also explain to me what's the warping of the meta and how it contradicts what i am saying in any way. Is it because the warp is making the game less fun ? Is a perception of balance important for fun ? Please, don't come with generalities.

To your second point, and i didn't say any of them does ? Even tho more than one has slipped in my opinion,  we are both in speculative territory rather than universal truths, so if you are going to go for definitives i would ask for a source on this.

 

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11 hours ago, Turbo Toker said:

 

We get what we now have?

 

No more pre-nerf Phantoms.

No more fat turrets.

No more U-Boats.

No more Dengaroo.

A tolerable amount of Parattanni.

No more Palpatine, and a tolerable amount of Defenders.

 

So yeah, we got what we now have. A better game.

The game is better because lists are gone? I don't agree.

And yes, those are lists that are not that exciting to play against, but to me that's not a reason to change them to the point that noone thinks they're good or competitive. Sometimes life is just messy. We power through it, no? 

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1 hour ago, haritos said:

How can you say that something popular that's facerolling lists is not fun for a good chunk of players?

If everyone is flying the phantom, for whatever reason, then that means that a lot of people are enjoying it. You are contradicting yourself and making me type the most obvious sentence ever.

So no, the phantom wasn't nerfed because more people disliked it than liked it. It was nerfed because playtesting found it too strong. Liking or disliking is a ridiculous metric, because it's zero sum. 

Because flying it =/= fun, and it works also both ways, it needs to be somewhat engaging for your opponent rather than pure frustration. Or do you think people's fun playing a 1on1 game is not related to their opponent or opponent's list in any way ? I am not in a contradiction, you are just simplifying the argument down to only one factor.

Edited by DreadStar

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Just now, DreadStar said:

To your first point, then explain it to me why it's better to keep game being unfun for a majority to appease a minority. 

Prove the majority feel that way and you might actually have a point.   But people whining here is hardly proof of anything, and it's the constant whining that I and others are tired of.

Especially when a lot of it is nothing more then "Please nerf paper, scissors are fine."

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3 minutes ago, DreadStar said:

Because flying it =/= fun

And you get to say this why?  Who made you the person who decides what other people find fun?

3 minutes ago, DreadStar said:

and it works also both ways, it needs to be somewhat engaging for your opponent rather than pure frustration.

No it actually doesn't, at least not in tournament games.  If I go to a tournament the amount of fun the other guy has is not my problem, or responsibility.   If we're talking about casual games, then if something isn't fun for both parties then why are they playing it?  If it's only fun for one person then why does the other person's fun count for more?

If someone is playing a list someone else finds frustrating or not enjoyable, then they have every right to ask not demand that they play something else.  Just like the other person has every right to refuse.  Which may end up mean neither person gets to play, but that's the nature of human interaction.

The problem is people here are asking that something they don't happen to like gets changed and the opinion of anyone who likes it simply doesn't matter.   The only reason anything should ever be nerfed is because it's unhealthy for the game as a whole.  Most times that also means whatever it is isn't much fun to play against, but that doesn't mean that just because someone finds something unenjoyable means it needs to be nerfed.

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Just now, VanorDM said:

Prove the majority feel that way and you might actually have a point.   But people whining here is hardly proof of anything, and it's the constant whining that I and others are tired of.

Especially when a lot of it is nothing more then "Please nerf paper, scissors are fine."

You are going sideways, i personally don't need to prove anything about why the changes are made, i am discussing the merits on doing adjusments to keep the game funnier or less frustrating for a chunk of the playerbase. If you disagree with that claim, do so, but don't create strawmans for you to fight against and then claim it's me the one making that argument.

And i would prefer to not have to quote myself, but since you are pushing for a second time the same matter...

"

How much this forum might represent the whole Xwing community is another matter of course (and not an easy one), and i also find unreasonable to ask you for evidence that FFG does not read the forums. We know they do, but we don't know how much weight it has and probably will never know (hopefully).

I can give my personal opinion, but in no way i am claiming it's right (hence why it is an opinion).

Now, can we get this out of the way ? Why do you think fun is not an important factor for the game ?

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