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Drakoniss

Waiqar 200 points good success list.

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++ Standard Army (Waiqar the  Undying : Wave 0 (2017)) [199 Points] ++
 
+ Infantry [137 Points] +
 
Ardus Ix'Erebus [39 Points]: 1 Tray [37 Points], Ancient Technique [2 Points]
 
Reanimate Archers [53 Points]: 3x2 Trays [45 Points], Close Quarters Targeting [3 Points], Shield Wall [5 Points]
 
Reanimates [45 Points]: 3x2 Trays [35 Points], Moment of Inspiration [5 Points], Terrifying Heraldry [5 Points]
 
+ Cavalry [62 Points] +
 
Carrion Lancers [31 Points]: 2x1 Trays [27 Points], Rank Discipline [4 Points]
 
Carrion Lancers [31 Points]: 2x1 Trays [27 Points], Rank Discipline [4 Points]

I have been playing like a gun line passing 2-3 blight a turn everyone focused on keeping the archers alive.

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I really like all the rerolls you are getting from upgrades on Ardus and the Carrion Lancers. That seems like it will be very potent. Putting Shield Wall to tech against Kari is also brilliant.

Passing that much Blight around seems really good, too. The builds I've been thinking of for Daqan include a lot of threat-boosting (large units with Front Line Rune Golem). By removing a die with Blight, the Daqan units don't get as much mileage out of their threat.

Minor quibble, but the Carrion Lancers are Siege pieces, not Cavalry.

Also, you say it is wave 0, but you are using several unreleased upgrades that will come with wave 1. But maybe I just have a different interpretation of wave 0. To me, that is just the core set. Even X-Wing's first wave (which released concurrently with the core set) was considered wave 1. Since the new expansions aren't arriving until a few months after release, I wouldn't consider them wave 0. Are the people you are playing with also proxying with unreleased cards? I just wonder because the victories wouldn't mean as much if the opponent was only using core set material.

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11 hours ago, Drakoniss said:

The archers have shield wall to defend against Kar'is surge ability mostly.

doesnt shield wall only work vs attacks?  Kari's surge ability technically isnt an attack so i dont believe it works.  believe me i hope i am wrong about that.

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2 hours ago, Klaxas said:

doesnt shield wall only work vs attacks?  Kari's surge ability technically isnt an attack so i dont believe it works.  believe me i hope i am wrong about that.

That's what I believed also at first and I could see it being ruled that way. I have searched top to bottom in the rule books. The only thing that describes what is or isn't an attack is in the learner guide. The description makes its sound like using the surge ability on the unit makes them a defender, when she checks their defense to see how many wounds.

Page 10 "the attacker can spend any surges to activate surge abilities"

If they are still the attacker when they spend the surges I believe any one having their armor checked for wounds against that attack is the defender.

Edited by Drakoniss
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See 10.2 of the Rules Reference.

"Step 2 -- Choose Target: The attacker chooses an enemy unit as the target of the attack. That enemy unit is the defender."

Kari's target is the defender, but her surge abilities only affect other units that are not her original target, so they would not be defenders. Good catch, @Klaxas. That's something I missed on first read-through of the list.

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50 minutes ago, Budgernaut said:

See 10.2 of the Rules Reference.

"Step 2 -- Choose Target: The attacker chooses an enemy unit as the target of the attack. That enemy unit is the defender."

Kari's target is the defender, but her surge abilities only affect other units that are not her original target, so they would not be defenders. Good catch, @Klaxas. That's something I missed on first read-through of the list.

Hmm seems solid to me. I guess my reading bias  got me. Thanks. 10.6 "The Attacker can spend surge icons to use abilities on his unit card". So Kari is still the attacker but the surge target is not labeled as the defender.

Edited by Drakoniss
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I feel I should also note, since several people seem to be confusing this in Kari's ability, but for EACH surge spent the targeted unit suffers 2 DAMAGE, not wounds. She must assign an amount of damage equal to the defense value to cause a wound. These do not last from turn to turn, or even until the next attack by another unit, just until this attack is resolved. So if Kari is fighting Reanimate archers and uses this on a Carrion Lancer, she must roll at least 2 surges to cause 4 damage to cause 1 wound (less than 25% chance, without rerolls). Also note that surges are not multiplied by Brutal or tray multipliers, and that since this is NOT AN ATTACK the damage it deals is also not multiplied by Brutal or tray multipliers. The odds of being able to damage the Carrion Lancer, if rerolling specifically to do so, are not great.

Edited by drkpnthr

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2 minutes ago, drkpnthr said:

(less than 25% chance, without rerolls)

It's worth noting, too, that with Precise 1, she always has at least 1 reroll for each die she rolls, so if she is more concerned with damaging a non-target, she has that option. I don't know that rerolling for surges is the best tactic, but it is an option she has.

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Kari is murdering 4-6 archers or reanimated every time she attacks. It's way harsh in a 100 point game. Don't let a experience player use her in a demo versus a new player. I have had her kill all the archers and most of the reanimated while dueling Ardus or the lancer almost every game.

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Proper use of blocking terrain and positioning of the unit she is engaged with should shield from her damage.

39.3 states that when finding line of sight, the targeted unit must be at least partly within that unit's firing arc.

46 states that ranged effects must have line of sight (even when they are not attacks).

46.1 states that if the two points (origin on the starting unit and end on the target) must be within the firing arc.

My thoughts go like this... Kari charges a Reanimate squad (or vice versa). They then square up. When it is Kari's chance to attack, they look like the illustration below (scroll down). So Kari's ability when she rolls surges can ONLY affect a unit that she can trace from her bottom left corner to an area on that unit's tray within range 5 that does not pass through another unit or terrain. If you know that, all you have to do is position your units on that side behind terrain, or go towards the opposite side of Kari. 

TLDR: It seems like this is another case of 'Waiqar SMASH!' tactics causing people to hate on Kari. I see her ability of being of VERY limited usability, as it is only within a 90 degree arc, most of which should be blocked by the unit she is currently engaged with.

rwm01_diagram3.jpg

 

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Item 64.3, second bullet, states: "When measuring range for a game effects [sic.] that does not require line of sight, a player chooses the two points (one on each component) that are closest to each other - this will ensure that the measurement determines the shortest range between the two components."

I think we will need further clarification on which effects do and do not require line of sight. Items 64.3 and 46 seem contradictory since one states that you must measure line of sight for all effects, and the other states that some effects do not require line of sight. Even though the Uncontrolled Geomancer measures range, I do not believe that one is intended to be restricted to line of sight. I also do not believe Kari is meant to require line of sight.

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1 hour ago, rowdyoctopus said:

The Carrion Lancer has an ability that specifies it requires range and line of sight.  If Kari indeed requires line of sight, precedent would tell us her ability is lacking the requisite text.  In other words, as written she does not need line of sight.

I actually expect FFG to FAQ or errata line of sight for her ability. I mean, the whole idea is that she is flinging her knives in melee to hurt other units (Protectors of the Realm article). It would also encourage Heartseeker usage to maximize that ability.

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17 hours ago, Drakoniss said:

Battle scribe has a lot of errors and my group uses every card we know about.

Hey, don't suppose you are talking about the battle scribe files I have made? If so I would really appreciate if you let me know about any errors you find so I can  fix them. 

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26 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

I actually expect FFG to FAQ or errata line of sight for her ability. I mean, the whole idea is that she is flinging her knives in melee to hurt other units (Protectors of the Realm article). It would also encourage Heartseeker usage to maximize that ability.

I see your point, but Heartseeker lets you choose a target outside of line of sight. Her surge ability doesn't target anything, so Heartseeker would still be useless, even if her ability were to be restricted to line of sight.

As for the thematics of her ability, I thought it was like those hero action scenes where the protagonist is locked in combat with a deadly foe while another one walks up behind her and she throws a knife at the one sneaking up on her. To me it doesn't seem like it needs to be restricted.

She may be strong now, but I think we need to see a lot more game reports before deciding to issue Kari an erratum. I think when people have more figures and more experience, we'll start to see people finding successful ways to deal with her.

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Kari IS supposed to require line of sight. Its the default for all ranged effects to require line of sight. The only way to get a ranged ability that does not require line of sight is the Heartseeker upgrade (10 pts). That is WHY it is so expensive is that it lets you skip this major rule.

46: "To perform a ranged attack, or resolve other ranged effects, a unit must have line of sight to its target."

 

Edited by drkpnthr

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39 minutes ago, drkpnthr said:

Kari IS supposed to require line of sight. Its the default for all ranged effects to require line of sight. The only way to get a ranged ability that does not require line of sight is the Heartseeker upgrade (10 pts). That is WHY it is so expensive is that it lets you skip this major rule.

46: "To perform a ranged attack, or resolve other ranged effects, a unit must have line of sight to its target."

 

Then why does the Carrion Lancer specify it needs line of sight?  The section of the RRG you are quoting is referring to abilities that are preceded by the ranged attack icon.

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42 minutes ago, drkpnthr said:

Kari IS supposed to require line of sight. Its the default for all ranged effects to require line of sight. The only way to get a ranged ability that does not require line of sight is the Heartseeker upgrade (10 pts). That is WHY it is so expensive is that it lets you skip this major rule.

46: "To perform a ranged attack, or resolve other ranged effects, a unit must have line of sight to its target."

 

What I'm saying is that Heartseeker allows you to ignore line of sight when choosing a target, but the unit that suffers damage from Kari's surge ability is not a target. So even if Kari's ability was supposed to have line of sight (which I contest) Heartseeker would not affect her ability.

I cited section 64.3 which explicitly states that some ranged effects do not require line of sight, so I believe that section 46 is not all-encompassing. As I said above, the two sections are in direct contradiction and clarification is needed.

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38 minutes ago, power500500 said:

This thread is starting to look like Law & Order: Terrinoth.

:P Sorry about that. I think it's fun to dig into the rules like this. I hope nobody feel offended.

I submitted a rules request on this matter. Hopefully we'll hear back soon, but I haven't heard from the last rules request yet, so who knows?

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