Mon Mothma's Monsters: Anybody have a comment?

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

Hello all. Some of you may know of my repeated attempts to fly dolphins (MC30s) despite my consistent failure with them. In the newest iteration of this stubborn persistence, I have created the following:

Mon Mothma's Monsters 
Author: NobodyInParticular

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 399/400  

Commander: Mon Mothma

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
-  Admonition  ( 8  points) 
-  Skilled First Officer  ( 1  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Reinforced Blast Doors  ( 5  points) 
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
-  Expanded Launchers  ( 13  points) 
= 100 total ship cost

[ flagship ] MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
-  Mon Mothma  ( 30  points) 
-  Foresight  ( 8  points) 
-  Skilled First Officer  ( 1  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Reinforced Blast Doors  ( 5  points) 
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
-  Expanded Launchers  ( 13  points) 
= 130 total ship cost

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
-  Skilled First Officer  ( 1  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Reinforced Blast Doors  ( 5  points) 
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
-  Expanded Launchers  ( 13  points) 
= 92 total ship cost

1 Jan Ors ( 19 points) 
1 Biggs Darklighter ( 19 points) 
3 X-Wing Squadrons ( 39 points) 

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

     I have yet to fly it, but greatly desire to. Do any of you happen to have any thoughts/comments/criticisms/suggestions concerning it? Especially where objectives are concerned, as I don't quite know which may be deemed appropriate. The bid is only 1 point, primarily because there are no 1 point upgrades for the available slot, else I would have spent it (after all, 1 point isn't too much of a difference from 0). Bidding where I play isn't much anyway, normally only 3-4 points if that, and that often by accident of fleet design (no free upgrade slots with cheap and useful upgrades). I intend to double-arc, naturally, and while I have no idea how I'll manage, I hope that I might use two arcs at a time more then once, and thus make up for the difference in cost between EL and APTs, the card I normally run (with Dodonna). 
     I was torn between Dodonna and Mon Mothma, but eventually decided on the latter since I have yet to use her and the titles and figured this might as well be the fleet to do so. What do you guys think? Squadron cover is also odd, in a way. They were chosen because I really wanted to try a 'Biggsball', and because I needed something that could delay an enemy should there be a need, have the hull points to survive in order to chew threw enemy escorts and intel should those exist, and to provide a decent threat should the enemy be squadronless, yet not so important that Flechette Torpedoes will wreak havoc with my game plan (should there ever be one of those. . .)

I think that's all. . . . anyways please let me know what you guys think!

Edited April 2, 2017 by NobodyInParticular

[Green Knight 9,746]

You lack the ability to control your squadrons, beyond moving in the squad phase.

3 short-range ships without a bid.

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

59 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

You lack the ability to control your squadrons, beyond moving in the squad phase.

3 short-range ships without a bid.

Yes, I hadn't really intended to control my squads. I considered them to be purely obstructions, basically. Their purpose is to die in defense of my ships, distracting the enemy squads. Squadrons in general are seldom above the 60 point range for my opponent or myself, and out of us two, I am the 'experimenter' with Intel, Relay, and Rhymerballs, so I am basing the squad cover on his usual compliment of max 6 squads, and those fighter-oriented or without dedicated bomber support (he recently obtained some defenders, and is experimenting with those).

The close range ships without a bid is indeed a risk, I hoped to threaten two or more ships so as to ensure that at least one was hit per turn. . . what would you suggest I change then? Remove the 3 SKOs? An RBD? A title? 

Edited April 2, 2017 by NobodyInParticular

[Ginkapo 9,321]

7 minutes ago, NobodyInParticular said:

what would you suggest I change then?

The concept that you want three equally powerful ships.

Have a clear hierarchy in your lists. Who has priority on activation? Its unclear here.

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

6 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

The concept that you want three equally powerful ships.

Have a clear hierarchy in your lists. Who has priority on activation? Its unclear here.

Why would I need priority? If they are all equally powerful then my opponent cannot predict which I would rather be activating, and must fear all of them, right? I don't understand why weakening some for the benefit of 1 is good. . . would you mind enlightening me?

[Caldias 2,210]

The hierarchy thing isn't the real issue.  With three activations, what will end up  happening in most games is your opponent will dodge your black range, or let something take the hit that isn't  going to die to an alpha strike.  Your squadrons will also be alphaed by other squadrons that are able to be activated.  You might be better suited at replacing one MC30 with 2-3 flotillas and more squadrons.

[Ginkapo 9,321]

3 minutes ago, NobodyInParticular said:

Why would I need priority? If they are all equally powerful then my opponent cannot predict which I would rather be activating, and must fear all of them, right? I don't understand why weakening some for the benefit of 1 is good. . . would you mind enlightening me?

What order do YOU deploy them in?

What order do YOU activate them?

Which ship goes for the flank?

Which ship goes through the middle?

Which ship goes nearest to the squadrons?

Which ship takes on their ISD?

Which ship is sacrificial?

 

But sure, your opponent cant predict you. Of course they cant, because you cant even predict yourself. You have no plan and will lose.

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

21 minutes ago, Caldias said:

The hierarchy thing isn't the real issue.  With three activations, what will end up  happening in most games is your opponent will dodge your black range, or let something take the hit that isn't  going to die to an alpha strike.  Your squadrons will also be alphaed by other squadrons that are able to be activated.  You might be better suited at replacing one MC30 with 2-3 flotillas and more squadrons.

Three activations used to be the normal here, though we are slowly drifting toward 4 activation MSUs, in response primarily to an experiment of mine. . .  I'll consider thinning out the ships a bit, I'll re-create the fleet and post it again. . . 

20 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

What order do YOU deploy them in?

What order do YOU activate them?

Which ship goes for the flank?

Which ship goes through the middle?

Which ship goes nearest to the squadrons?

Which ship takes on their ISD?

Which ship is sacrificial?

 

But sure, your opponent cant predict you. Of course they cant, because you cant even predict yourself. You have no plan and will lose.

Good point, I hadn't really thought of that. . . then again, if they're all the same, does it really matter which is which?

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

How's this?

Mon Mothma's Monsters V2 
Author: NobodyInParticular

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 398/400  

Commander: Mon Mothma

Assault Objective: Opening Salvo
Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon
Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
-  Admonition  ( 8  points) 
-  Skilled First Officer  ( 1  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Reinforced Blast Doors  ( 5  points) 
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
-  Expanded Launchers  ( 13  points) 
= 100 total ship cost

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
-  Foresight  ( 8  points) 
-  Skilled First Officer  ( 1  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Reinforced Blast Doors  ( 5  points) 
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
-  Expanded Launchers  ( 13  points) 
= 100 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Bomber Command Center  ( 8  points) 
= 26 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Bomber Command Center  ( 8  points) 
= 26 total ship cost

[ flagship ] GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Mon Mothma  ( 30  points) 
-  Bomber Command Center  ( 8  points) 
= 56 total ship cost

1 Biggs Darklighter ( 19 points) 
4 X-Wing Squadrons ( 52 points) 
1 Jan Ors ( 19 points)

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

Should I increase my bid some more? I gave the flotillas BCCs so as to improve the effectiveness of the squads should they prove to weather all competition.

Edited April 2, 2017 by NobodyInParticular

[GammonLord 324]

Maybe reduce to one BCC to increase that bid, maybe even further by swapping EL for APTs on one MC30? They really want that first strike and a 2 (even a 10) point bid doesn't make that likely.

Could swap out xi7 for H9 on the EL MC30 as well? Means all that lovely extra black damage (esp on a double arc) isn't getting braced away. Yes it could be redirected, but its still shields disappearing.

[Ginkapo 9,321]

OMNOMNOM, Now that is a list I can get behind.

Most Wanted, Capture the VIP and Sure Intel Sweep.

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

19 minutes ago, GammonLord said:

Maybe reduce to one BCC to increase that bid, maybe even further by swapping EL for APTs on one MC30? They really want that first strike and a 2 (even a 10) point bid doesn't make that likely.

Could swap out xi7 for H9 on the EL MC30 as well? Means all that lovely extra black damage (esp on a double arc) isn't getting braced away. Yes it could be redirected, but its still shields disappearing.

See, I considered that, and OE APT with Dodonna is my standard dolphin load out, but I wanted to try a pure raw damage heavy hitter style list, rather than anything else. With double arcs, Opening Salvo and concentrate fire the dolphins were throwing 6 and 7 dice for their first attacks, which couldn't be redirected. I wanted to keep this and hoped that 3 such ships would be devastating enough. The feedback I received prompted me to replace the one with transports for activations, but I don't really want to lose the number of dice I'm throwing, since that's the point of the fleet. . . I may replace the XI7s with H9s though as I have it now it means that either the opponent is burning the brace turn 1 of fighting or they are letting damage get through unopposed. I'll have to think bout it some.

As for the bid, a 10 point bid would be the highest bid my area has ever seen, and would be more than sufficient.

[itzSteve 612]

You should get rid of two of those BCC upgrades and put Toryn Farr / Slicer Tools / Bright Hope on one of the flotillas. Send it in with your squads and Toryn will help with your squad blue dice rerolls and you can then start messing with other ships commands with Slicer Tools. 

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

4 hours ago, itzSteve said:

You should get rid of two of those BCC upgrades and put Toryn Farr / Slicer Tools / Bright Hope on one of the flotillas. Send it in with your squads and Toryn will help with your squad blue dice rerolls and you can then start messing with other ships commands with Slicer Tools. 

Yep, very good points and likely a change I shall implement. I ran the fleet today using this iteration:

Mon Mothma's Monsters V3 
Author: NobodyInParticular

Faction: Rebel Alliance 
Points: 390/400  

Commander: Mon Mothma

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Capture the VIP 
Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
-  Admonition  ( 8  points) 
-  Skilled First Officer  ( 1  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Reinforced Blast Doors  ( 5  points) 
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
-  Expanded Launchers  ( 13  points) 
= 100 total ship cost

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
-  Foresight  ( 8  points) 
-  Skilled First Officer  ( 1  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Reinforced Blast Doors  ( 5  points) 
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
-  Expanded Launchers  ( 13  points) 
= 100 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Bomber Command Center  ( 8  points) 
= 26 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Bomber Command Center  ( 8  points) 
= 26 total ship cost

[ flagship ] GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Mon Mothma  ( 30  points) 
= 48 total ship cost

1 Biggs Darklighter ( 19 points) 
4 X-Wing Squadrons ( 52 points) 
1 Jan Ors ( 19 points)

With OK results. I almost lost Admo, and would have fared miserably had my enemy not turned his entire fleet (a Screed Demo-II/Glad-II/2xRaider-I/Aces list) to chase down Mothma, so afraid was he of her ability (having never faced it before). In that battle I split my squadrons to perform bombing and thus lost the benefit of Biggs. Owing to the diluted bombing efforts, the BCCs weren't effective. As such, Farr and Slicer Tools may be advisable, or maybe just 2 flotillas and more squads (another X-Wing, a YT-1300 for example) and no BCCs. . .
Maybe I'll have a lifeboat flotilla running away, maybe with a relay so as to get some benefit, and then another dedicated fighter support flotilla with EHB and Toryn Farr.

Maybe this:

Mon Mothma's Monsters V4 
Author: NobodyInParticular

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 391/400  

Commander: Mon Mothma

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Capture the VIP
Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
-  Admonition  ( 8  points) 
-  Skilled First Officer  ( 1  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Reinforced Blast Doors  ( 5  points) 
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
-  Expanded Launchers  ( 13  points) 
= 100 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Bright Hope  ( 2  points) 
-  Toryn Farr  ( 7  points) 
= 27 total ship cost

[ flagship ] GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Mon Mothma  ( 30  points) 
= 48 total ship cost

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
-  Foresight  ( 8  points) 
-  Skilled First Officer  ( 1  points) 
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points) 
-  Reinforced Blast Doors  ( 5  points) 
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points) 
-  Expanded Launchers  ( 13  points) 
= 100 total ship cost

5 X-Wing Squadrons ( 65 points) 
1 Jan Ors ( 19 points) 
1 Biggs Darklighter ( 19 points) 
1 YT-1300 ( 13 points) 

More squads, though they cannot be easily activated via squadron commands (something very useful) and more anti-fighter forces. No bombing. . . maybe I'd send Mothma into the squad ball as well?

Also: Special thanks go to @GammonLord since my opponent decided to experiment with a purposeful bid, and bid 7 points.

Edited April 3, 2017 by NobodyInParticular

[GammonLord 324]

Used an EL mc30 alongside an APT variant last night, both similar builds to your own (though opted for Derlin on Foresight and Walex Blissex on Admonition for extra survivability, with H9s on both). Initially my opponent was genuinely worried for me that i didnt have enough damage output... the EL double arc is a beast! Currently running variations on this:

 

Total: 386

Admiral: Mon Mothma

Missions: Adv.Gunnery, Solar Corona, Planetary Ion Cannon.

MC30 Torp: Foresight, Derlin, Expanded Launchers, Ord.Exps, H9s, RBDs

MC30 Torp: Admonition, Blissex, APTs, Ord.Exps, H9s, RBDs

GR75 Trans: Boosted Comms

GR75 Trans: Boosted Comms

GR75 Trans: Mothma

5 A Wings

Tycho

Shara

 

The A Wings have proved a pretty essential part of this list. If they're not dealing with enemy squads they're following on MC30 runs to peck their wounded victims to death. 

I make 0 apologies for my life-boating  

 

[GhostofNobodyInParticular 2,497]

15 minutes ago, GammonLord said:

Used an EL mc30 alongside an APT variant last night, both similar builds to your own (though opted for Derlin on Foresight and Walex Blissex on Admonition for extra survivability, with H9s on both). Initially my opponent was genuinely worried for me that i didnt have enough damage output... the EL double arc is a beast! Currently running variations on this:

 

Total: 386

Admiral: Mon Mothma

Missions: Adv.Gunnery, Solar Corona, Planetary Ion Cannon.

MC30 Torp: Foresight, Derlin, Expanded Launchers, Ord.Exps, H9s, RBDs

MC30 Torp: Admonition, Blissex, APTs, Ord.Exps, H9s, RBDs

GR75 Trans: Boosted Comms

GR75 Trans: Boosted Comms

GR75 Trans: Mothma

5 A Wings

Tycho

Shara

 

The A Wings have proved a pretty essential part of this list. If they're not dealing with enemy squads they're following on MC30 runs to peck their wounded victims to death. 

I make 0 apologies for my life-boating  

 

Dang that looks scary. I like it. And I agree that A-Wings would be pretty good. With little opportunity to active the squads, having counter is essential. 

[GammonLord 324]

The GR75s with Boosted comms and a token do allow for mini surges, with their base 2 squadron value allowing for supporting attacks with the MC30s. Shara is there as the perfect odd one out - she rarely needs activating, which is perfect for this fleet.

[sDm 9]

Im running  combo of Caldias, Ginkapo, and Ardaedhel:

Mc30 torpedo: Admonition, Lando, OE, APT, X17, RBD

Mc30 torpedo: Forsight, Derilin, OE, APT, RBD

Mc30 torpedo: OE, APT

Cr90a: Jainas Light, TRC

Gr75: Quantum Storm, slicer tools

Gr75: Mothma

386

[GammonLord 324]

I really want to find a place for slicer tools in my list as well. May have to drop an A wing or two...

[sDm 9]

Slicer was something I picked up from an obscure Ard post, (and probably Ginkapo too)

Super Amazing. Specially since they work After your move, effectively making a Gr75 a fighting ship.

Even SFO is not really enough to counter, although Leia is.

[GammonLord 324]

Got an event with my list coming up on Sunday, so will post results and further thoughts after  

[buckero0 1,956]

On April 6, 2017 at 1:03 AM, sDm said:

Im running  combo of Caldias, Ginkapo, and Ardaedhel:

Mc30 torpedo: Admonition, Lando, OE, APT, X17, RBD

Mc30 torpedo: Forsight, Derilin, OE, APT, RBD

Mc30 torpedo: OE, APT

Cr90a: Jainas Light, TRC

Gr75: Quantum Storm, slicer tools

Gr75: Mothma

386

What objectives do you usually run with this?

[GammonLord 324]

In lieu of sDm's answer, i ran the following with Advanced Gunnery, Planetary Ion Cannon and Dangerous Territory at yesterday's Bristol (UK) OP.

 

Admiral: Mothma

Total: 387

MC30 Torp: Admo, OE, APT, RBDs, Walex Blissex.

MC30 Torp: Foresight, OE, APT, RBDs, Major Derlin.

MC30 Torp: H9s, OE APT

GR75 Trans: Boosted Comms

GR75 Trans: Mothma

Shara 

Tycho

2 x A Wings.

 

With the bid i easily clinched first in two of the three games, with my third opponent (a Cracken fleet) having the same bid so we diced off. First time I've really used H9s in a flotilla heavy environment (not many at my local) - the mere threat of a guaranteed lifeboat kill can really change people's deployment.

[sDm 9]

Most Wanted, Planetary Ion Cannon, Solar Corona

or

Most Wanted, Contested Outpost, Intel Sweep

 

Mostly the first set, but the second set is my experiments to get bonus pts from the mission etc.

 

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by sDm

[Ginkapo 9,321]

17 hours ago, sDm said:

Most Wanted, Contested Outpost, Intel Sweep

Try Capture the VIP instead.