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Darth Meanie

X-Wing's First Ban?

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8 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Fine, I'll drop it.

To be honest, I really don't give a **** because I don't fly the JM5K and I don't go to tournaments, but if the next 3 years of design are meant to go down the toilet seat, I'll find it annoying that this ONE chassis is the entire focus of the game.

Wait! You don't care? And you still open the whining thread number 164 because what?

 

 

Jeez, there's a lot of guys that really needs to spend his time in game more than into a forum I guess..

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The argument that changing the point costs makes it too easy for newcomers to make illegal lists is pretty specious. Sure, it can happen. But then, if someone buys a Phantom that has the old decloak rules in it, and shows up at a tournament without reading the FAQ, they may well be upset as well, no longer wanting to play the ship they have in their list because it's different. This applies to anything that's been faq'ed to work differently than originally printed. The simple answer is that if you're going to a tournament, check the FAQ. Oh, look! All the JM5K pilots cost 2 more points than printed. Guess I'd better fix my list before going.

If someone shows up to a tournament with an overcosted list because of this, they should be given the opportunity to rebuild. But as a player going to a tournament, the onus should be on you to know what all the changes to cards and rules are -- including potential point cost changes.

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17 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

 Things change. Relax and carry on.

Fair enough.

11 minutes ago, Ailowynn said:

Problem with the JumpMaster is the combination of upgrades. Unfortunately, that means that there will probably always be something new out there that'll be good on the Jump, and if you nerf every single combo, you end up needing half the game.

And they're not going to change point costs or the upgrade bar. That makes it too easy for newcomers to make illegal lists. 

Ergo, the ongoing problem if this chassis is just too good.

10 minutes ago, Cerve said:

Wait! You don't care? And you still open the whining thread number 164 because what?

Jeez, there's a lot of guys that really needs to spend his time in game more than into a forum I guess..

Curious is not the same as invested.  I wasn't aware I was whining; I was asking everyone's opinion with 2 questions without expressing one of my own.  Unfortunately, apparently you and some others takes my questions as an assault on their game and thus responds in kind by assaulting me.

9 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

You go from stones in shoes to planes crashing. Your analogies are all over the place.

Yeah.  I also said I'd drop it, and here I am still typing.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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4 minutes ago, Ailowynn said:

And they're not going to change point costs or the upgrade bar. That makes it too easy for newcomers to make illegal lists. 

But that doesn't really matter for purely casual play.  For tournament play, players really should be tuned into the FAQ document, anyway.

Changing the cost of the JumpBastard was always the best way to go.  FFG simply always chooses the easiest way to go, rather than the best  ... and they have no memory, so if the "easiest" way is also 27 different changes to different cards, but stretched out over months, it still counts as "easiest" to FFG.

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Just now, Darth Meanie said:

 

Curious is not the same as invested.  I wasn't aware I was whining; I was asking everyone's opinion.  Unfortunately, apparently everyone takes my question as an assault on their game and thus responds in kind.

 

Well mate, try with a different mode, that opening was a bit whining about FFG (: 

 

The true answer is that there's a lot of people that still winning vs 3U in tounraments. So no, there's no need of fixing anyone.

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2 minutes ago, Stevey86 said:

Which came in as a JM5K nerf and killed the only other use for the droid in the meantime (Blaster turret)

I wouldn't say the only other use (though I do regret not being in time for that combo). The idea of meeting a target lock after spending a focus for an attack is solid. I'm personally looking forward to trying the argomech on a BTL Y-Wing with synched Turret when it comes out.

Plus, undoing the new chart means they have to undo a lot of clarifications and new card wordings FFG has done. I doubt they'll go back and undo it.

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The entire JM5K chassis is just too cheap.  There is no easy fix.  Removing the EPT from the scout would put Manaroo back into mindlink lists and triple scouts would probably still be a strong squad.  Dengar is still potentially a really, really strong pilot if someone wants to get creative with builds.  Tel Trevura could be a friggin monster if the other three pilots weren't around.

But!  I don't think a ban is the way to go.  There are not enough ships in the game to justify a ban... yet.  I would much rather see FFG bite the bullet and increase the cost across the board for the JM5K.  Unlikely?  Sadly, yes.  But it's the only real solution.  Manaroo could probably get range 1-2 and all ships go up in points.  And/or put the agromech slot on the title.

(Off topic, but why doesn't FFG give different pilots different upgrade slots or actions?  Wasted design opportunities.  Can just give Han Solo the evade action but not Chewie, no reason it has to be on the title.  Only have the agromech slot on Dengar's card.  Yes, the players would actually have to read on occasion but we'd survive.)

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33 minutes ago, MegaSilver said:

Tel's too cool!

Preach on brother! We already discussed Tel in a separate thread a while back, but people still don't know what they're missing. Is Tel"the best" Jumpmaster? No. Is he the funnest? Yes!!! Clearly subjective, but try Tel out people! He's awesome!

Edited by Evenflow30

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14 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

The entire JM5K chassis is just too cheap.  There is no easy fix.  Removing the EPT from the scout would put Manaroo back into mindlink lists and triple scouts would probably still be a strong squad.  Dengar is still potentially a really, really strong pilot if someone wants to get creative with builds.  Tel Trevura could be a friggin monster if the other three pilots weren't around.

But!  I don't think a ban is the way to go.  There are not enough ships in the game to justify a ban... yet.  I would much rather see FFG bite the bullet and increase the cost across the board for the JM5K.  Unlikely?  Sadly, yes.  But it's the only real solution.  Manaroo could probably get range 1-2 and all ships go up in points.  And/or put the agromech slot on the title.

(Off topic, but why doesn't FFG give different pilots different upgrade slots or actions?  Wasted design opportunities.  Can just give Han Solo the evade action but not Chewie, no reason it has to be on the title.  Only have the agromech slot on Dengar's card.  Yes, the players would actually have to read on occasion but we'd survive.)

The astromech should be on the title card. 

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3 minutes ago, Evenflow30 said:

Preach on brother! We already discussed Tel in a separate thread a while back, but people still don't know what they're missing. Is Telling "the best" Jumpmaster? No. Is he the funnest? Yes!!! Clearly subjective, but try Tel out people! He's awesome!

Hah, i think hes the best!  Tels tanky with hull upgrade and gonk. Dengars agressive but requires arc. Manaroos support but requires close range now. Scouts are bit of everything now

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21 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

 

(Off topic, but why doesn't FFG give different pilots different upgrade slots or actions?  Wasted design opportunities.  Can just give Han Solo the evade action but not Chewie, no reason it has to be on the title.  Only have the agromech slot on Dengar's card.  Yes, the players would actually have to read on occasion but we'd survive.)

Well, they tried that back with ORS in giving it a different upgrades (no missiles) and stats, and the result was that the ORS is kind of cruddy to just get a generic in why not run a named pilot and may have in future steered FFG away from such decisions which I kind of agree with. Stats on the ship should stay the same for all pilots - but they also should get way better with the titles to specify a unique ship. I totally think that Punishing One should have been way more thematic like the upcoming Havoc title, for instance - the Jump should not have the PWT and maybe the astromech slot without it. That's just a case where FFG fudged the "baseline" of a ship a little too much to make people interested in playing it, as opposed to smart fudges like the Kihraxz having 3 ATK, the U-Wing's torpedo slot and the upcoming TIE/AG having 1 shield by default. 

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That's a slippery slope I wouldn't go down. We had this conversation a couple of years ago about Han before autothrusers and tlt so I think we'll just have to wait it out. With the wave 11 stuff I've seen, reinforce counters tlt Miranda pretty well I guess and munitions beat out large based ships (jump master/lancer) so I don't know.

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Just enjoying the run of ban topics that are showing up. I do agree some if not most of the recent faq was good if not needed but as has come up before i believe that in general we need to learn to fly better. I include myself as much as anyone in that comment.  But just to outright ban a ship just because it might be overcosted or a generic ship can have a ept is a bit harsh.

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1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

So, how about it?  The JumpMaster has had 3 nerfs and still is at the top of the list (see other thread).

Is it about time the FFG just admits that this ship is WAAAAAAYYYYY out of line with everything else, and instead of ruining other cards (Deadeye, Astromech) just gets this ship out of the sandbox?

Looks like you're getting a lot of flak here Darth, but I don't think you're proposal  is out of line (though I'm not a fan of outright banning). To me, the "problem"  lies on the contracted scout.  I think Tel is priced just right and with recent nerfs (r1 for Manaroo and Zuckuss crew nerf for Dengar) the other two named pilots are great still but reasonable to deal with in both tournament and casual play.  They won't do this, but raising scouts up a few points, maybe to 27 like Manaroo, would help. Even after the deadeye/r4 agro nerf I still see alot of triple scouts here in Milwaukee that do great(although the people playing them could definitely be a big factor too).

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