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Darth Meanie

X-Wing's First Ban?

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So, how about it?  The JumpMaster has had 3 nerfs and still is at the top of the list (see other thread).

Is it about time the FFG just admits that this ship is WAAAAAAYYYYY out of line with everything else, and instead of ruining other cards (Deadeye, Astromech) just gets this ship out of the sandbox?

Edited by Darth Meanie

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I just don't see FFG completely banning a ship or an upgrade card - nerf it to hell to the point it's so weak it might not be worth taking but out right ban it no.

If FFG did start banning ship's and upgrade cards then it's time for a new Version of the game or stop making it.

Edited by Torg

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8 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

So, how about it?  The JumpMaster has had 3 nerfs and still is at the top of the list (see other thread).

Is it about time the FFG just admits that this ship is WAAAAAAYYYYY out of line with everything else, and instead of ruining other cards (Deadeye, Astromech) just gets this ship out of the sandbox?

Ooooo you're such a meanie and a Sith Lord to boot.

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15 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

So, how about it?  The JumpMaster has had 3 nerfs and still is at the top of the list (see other thread).

Is it about time the FFG just admits that this ship is WAAAAAAYYYYY out of line with everything else, and instead of ruining other cards (Deadeye, Astromech) just gets this ship out of the sandbox?

Deadeye isn't ruined (what other big ship cares?). Neither is r4 agromech. Only blaster turret cares, and it's not good in the first place. 

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FFG opts to fix via rules adjustment, which just seems really wrong-headed to me.  Everything costs points. Being OP in this environment most often means when you take Ship-X you get a f**load more bang for your pts that taking Ship-Y.  Adjust the pts to even that out. Making new rules often has ripples outside of Ship-X's OP status.  

Will some folks have to adjust their tourney lists because the points no longer work out -Yes!  Why is that such a horrible outcome?  They adjust their lists based on other kinds of nerfs anyway. 

Banning a MTG card makes sense, a ship, not so much. 

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13 minutes ago, Torg said:

I just don't see FFG completely banning a ship or an upgrade card - nerf it to hell to the point it's so weak it might not be worth taking but out right ban it no.

If FFG did start banning ship's and upgrade cards then it's to for a new edation of the game or stop making it.

So, if you nerf it to hell, how is that different than banning other than semantics?  "I have a ship I don't want to play" vs. "I have a ship I can't play" is only different in the RAW.

Fallacious.  LOTS of games use this as a correction strategy.  If used judiciously, I think it is the responsible to admit a misstep way to rebalance the game

5 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Deadeye isn't ruined (what other big ship cares?). Neither is r4 agromech. Only blaster turret cares, and it's not good in the first place. 

Fine.  Still leaves JM5K as the reining king.  And it you are going to design around a "broken" component, all of the future designs will be either be broken or dominated by the JM5K.

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33 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

So, how about it?  The JumpMaster has had 3 nerfs and still is at the top of the list (see other thread).

Is it about time the FFG just admits that this ship is WAAAAAAYYYYY out of line with everything else, and instead of ruining other cards (Deadeye, Astromech) just gets this ship out of the sandbox?

So you would like to ban a ship, which in turn means Dengar, Manaroo (who was nerfed to range 1), Tel and Contracted Scout pilot cards become obsolete. Which is not good for the game the changes errata already made to the lists/upgrades with the Jumpmaster 5000 in mind were based on balancing. Deadeye was needed and the Agromech errata clarified things; continuing to adjust is one thing to completely ban something could fall under NPE. 

This argument can be and is being made by others about Sabine, TLT and Biggs. Let's ban those cards too then. 

Edited by Cgriffith
spelling and clarification on Range of Manaroo NERF

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11 minutes ago, Pewpewpew BOOM said:

 Making new rules often has ripples outside of Ship-X's OP status.  

Which is a little bit my point.  Continually designing around a single outlier design is more likely to warp the game than fix it.

If there is a stone in your shoe, take it out.  Don't add 3 socks and a bandage.

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7 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

Sigh. And again...

Fine, I'll drop it.

To be honest, I really don't give a **** because I don't fly the JM5K and I don't go to tournaments, but if the next 3 years of design are meant to go down the toilet seat, I'll find it annoying that this ONE chassis is the entire focus of the game.

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1 minute ago, Darth Meanie said:

Which is a little bit my point.  Continually designing around a single outlier design is more likely to warp the game than fix it.

If there is a stone in your shoe, take it out.  Don't add 3 socks and a bandage.

Just because there's a stone in your shoe doesn't mean I have to remove my shoe.

Learn how to keep stones out of your footwear

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1 minute ago, Darth Meanie said:

Fine, I'll drop it.

To be honest, I really don't give a **** because I don't fly the JM5K and I don't go to tournaments, but if the next 3 years of design are meant to go down the toilet seat, I'll find it annoying that this ONE chassis is the entire focus of the game.

You've been around long enough to remember the days of swarms and Fat Han. Fat Han ruled for over a year. Things change. Relax and carry on.

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1 minute ago, Darth Meanie said:

If there is a stone in your shoe, take it out.  Don't add 3 socks and a bandage.

But if you have a bad blister, do you cut off your toe?

I have played a variety of minis games in tournament settings. FFG does a lot right. The one that was the most broken time and again was HeroClix. I gave up on that game years ago. They came up with a couple different ways of dealing with mistakes in unit design. They had to rewrite the rulebook first to eliminate some loopholes. Then they had to errata many abilities. And finally they had to give up on a cohesive system and just declare pieces past a certain age (two or three years) ineligible for competitive play.

Banning the JumpMaster is Bad Idea. Imagine you bought one as a new player and showed up for your first event and couldn't play it? Now imagine it is your favorite ship. Sucks, doesn't it?

After playing at Hoth and not seeing nearly as many JM5K, I think any further conversation on bans, nerfs, and any other complaints about this or that should be shelved until after Worlds in May. I don't see FFG making any serious changes at this point. After that, I hope to see TLTs addressed in a minor way (range 3 bonus, please.)

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9 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

Just because there's a stone in your shoe doesn't mean I have to remove my shoe.

Learn how to keep stones out of your footwear

Great problem solving.  When a plane crashes, then, the solution is to say "you shouldn't have built one that will crash."

5 minutes ago, Chivenger said:

But if you have a bad blister, do you cut off your toe?

If it turns gangrenous, yes.

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Problem with the JumpMaster is the combination of upgrades. Unfortunately, that means that there will probably always be something new out there that'll be good on the Jump, and if you nerf every single combo, you end up needing half the game.

And they're not going to change point costs or the upgrade bar. That makes it too easy for newcomers to make illegal lists. 

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