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What would it take to bring the Firespray out on the table more?

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8 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Mod: Faked Transponder Codes: Unique, 2 points, Firespray only.  You may equip any Title upgrade to this ship, paying any cost that upgrade may have, and ignoring any restrictions.  Treat any negative cost as costing 0 points.

Outrider Firespray?  Yeah.  Barrel Rolling Mist Hunter Firespray? Yeah.  Special Ops firespray?  YEAH.  Adaptive Ailerons Firespray? OMG yeah.  IG2000 firespray?  HECK YEAH.  X1 systems firespray, v1 TL Evade firespray, all the yeah.

I actually think that might be pretty balanced at the moment.  But it would be HUGELY at risk of becoming broken by new titles.

Pivot Wing. -1 point Stealth Device that doesn't get discarded

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8 minutes ago, Lampyridae said:

ARC-170 Firespray.

Yup that would be wicked cool.

I honestly think this would be a balanced upgrade even with the titles for things like the /sf and the ARC.  The firespray is a touch underpowered, so giving it unique access to titles like those that give it a (significant) power boost isn't going to hurt much, and makes its build options SO much more interesting.

4 minutes ago, Stevey86 said:

Pivot Wing. -1 point Stealth Device that doesn't get discarded

Yup.  Again, the Firespray is a touch underpowered, bringing it up a bit probably wouldn't hurt much.  Making it 3 agility/focus/evade makes it tankier than the Aggressor, but not by much, and without any repositioning (because this would be a mod so no Engine), and a similar price.

 

8 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Only Unique Titles.  More thematic.  Watch out, ST-321 Firespray is a monster!

This is probably more balanced though.  It loses IG2000 and all of the generic titles so no /x1, /v1, /x7, /D, Pivot Wing etc.  It's also worth noting perhaps that some of the most powerful titles (like Shadow Caster) just wouldn't work.  And paying 14 points to go up to 4 attack with Punishing One would... probably actually not be a terrible idea.  Hound's Tooth is the weirdest one though XD

E: maybe only titles from the same faction?

Edited by thespaceinvader

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3 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

That's a boring but functional solution, yes.  But I'm looking for interesting ones :P

Haha.  Perhaps, but the ship itself is interesting already and it's interestingness increases as various upgrades come out.  In my mind it just needs to be worth the points cost.

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37 minutes ago, Stevey86 said:

Slave 1 also adds Illicit (if you don't already have one)

Firespray only mod, adds 2 system slots

Firespray only system, at the start of the combat phase, if there are no enemy ships in your firing arc at range 1-3 you may perform a free boost or barrel roll action.

That might have been too much :)
I think this is all it needs.
Either that or the mod gives you a system and lets you take a 2nd mod.
FCS and Engine would be plenty to buff any Firespray

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I mean seriously:

•Millennium FalconWave 21YT-1300 only.Your action bar gains the evade action icon.  ALready got it, no effect.

•Slave IWave 20Firespray-31 only.Your upgrade bar gains the Torpedoes upgrade icon.  ALready can take it, no effect.

•Moldy CrowWave 33HWK-290 only.During the End phase, do not remove unused focus tokens from your ship. Probably fine.

•ST-321Wave 33Lambda-class Shuttle only.When acquiring a target lock, you may lock onto any enemy ship in the play area. Can already take LRS, this isn't much better for 3 points.

Royal Guard TIEImperial Aces0TIE Interceptor only.You may equip up to 2 different Modification upgrades (instead of 1). You cannot equip this card if your pilot skill value is "4" or lower. Engine Upgrade and ATs for 8 points yeah

A-Wing Test PilotRebel Aces0A-Wing only.Your upgrade bar gains 1 Elite upgrade icon.You cannot equip 2 of the same Elite Upgrade cards. You cannot equip this card if your pilot skill value is "1" or lower.  This is probably the closes one to broken

•OutriderWave 55YT-2400 only.While you have a Cannon Upgrade card equipped, you cannot perform primary weapon attacks and you may perform Cannon secondary weapons attacks against ships outside your firing arc. Seems pretty fine.

•DauntlessWave 52VT-49 Decimator only.After you execute a maneuver that causes you to overlap another ship, you may perform one free action. Then receive 1 stress token.  Seems pretty fine.

•ViragoWave 61StarViper only.Your upgrade bar gains the System and Illicit upgrade icons. You cannot equip this card if your pilot skill value is "3" or lower. If anything not worth the points.

"Heavy Scyk" InterceptorWave 62M3-A Interceptor only.Your upgrade bar gains the Cannon, Torpedoes or Missiles upgrade icon. Increase your hull value by 1. Probably fine for four points given that you can get a hull upgrade for 3...

IG-2000Wave 60Aggressor only.You have the pilot ability of each other friendly ship with the IG-2000 Upgrade card (in addition to your own pilot ability).  Probably fine.

BTL-A4 Y-wingWave 60Y-Wing only.You cannot attack ships outside your firing arc. After you perform a primary weapon attack, you may immediately perform an attack with a Turret secondary weapon. Irrelevant doesn't do anything

•AndrastaWave 60Firespray-31 only.Your upgrade bar gains two additional Bomb upgrade icons. ALready available.

TIE/x1Imperial Raider0TIE Advanced only.Your upgrade bar gains the System upgrade icon. If you equip a System upgrade, its squad point cost is reduced by 4 (to a minimum of 0).Probably fine, though it is a significant discount.

•Hound's ToothWave 76YV-666 only.After you are destroyed, before you are removed from the play area, you may deploy the Nashtah Pup Pilot. It cannot attack this round. HIlarious but not remotely unbalanced.

•Punishing OneWave 812JumpMaster 5000 only.Increase your primary weapon value by 1. Fine.

TIE/v1Wave 81TIE Advanced Prototype only.After you acquire a target lock, you may perform a free evade action. Probably fine.

•Mist HunterWave 80G-1A Starfighter only.Your action bar gains the Barrel Roll action icon. You must equip 1 "Tractor Beam" upgrade card (paying its squad point cost as normal). Definitely fine.

•GhostWave 80VCX-100 only.Equip the Phantom title card to a friendly Attack Shuttle and dock it to this ship. After you execute a maneuver, you may deploy it from your rear guides. Does nothing

•PhantomWave 8--While you are docked, the Ghost can perform primary weapon attacks from its special firing arc and, at the end of the Combat phase, it may perform an additional attack with an equipped Turret. If it performs this attack, it cannot attack again this round. Does nothing.

TIE/x7Imperial Veterans Expansion Pack-2Tie Defender only.Your upgrade bar loses the Cannon and Missile upgrade icons. After executing a 3-, 4- or 5-speed maneuver, if you are not stressed and did not overlap an obstacle or other ship, you may assign 1 evade token to your ship. Taking into account the 'treat negative costs as 0, probably OK, the speed restriction is MUCH more punishing on a large base and the stress restriction makes it not work on the K turn.

TIE/DImperial Veterans Expansion Pack0Tie Defender only.Once per round, after you perform an attack with a Cannon secondary weapon that costs 3 or fewer squad points, you may perform a primary weapon attack.  Probably fine.

TIE ShuttleImperial Veterans Expansion Pack0Tie Bomber onlyYour upgrade bar loses all Torpedo, Missile, and Bomb icons and gains 2 Crew upgrade icons. You cannot equip a Crew upgrade card that costs more than 4 squad points. Probably fine.

•Black OneHeroes of the Resistance Expansion Pack1T-70 X-wing only.After you perform a boost or barrel roll action, you may remove 1 enemy target lock from a friendly ship at Range 1. You cannot equip this card if your pilot skill is "6" or lower. Irrelevant, can't do the actions.

•Millennium Falcon (HOR)Heroes of the Resistance Expansion Pack1YT-1300 only.After you execute a 3-speed bank maneuver, if you are not touching another ship and you are not stressed, you may receive 1 stress token to rotate your ship 180 degrees. Probably fine without Kanan.

Alliance OverhaulWave 90ARC-170 only.When attacking with a primary weapon from your primary firing arc, you may roll 1 additional attack die. When attacking from your auxiliary firing arc, you may change 1 of your Focus results to a Critical result. Possibly a little OP

Special Ops TrainingWave 90TIE/SF only.When attacking with a primary weapon from your primary firing arc, you may roll 1 additional attack die. If you do not, you may perform an additional attack from your auxiliary firing arc.  Possibly a little OP

Concord Dawn ProtectorWave 91Protectorate Starfighter only.When defending, if you are inside the attacker's firing arc and at Range 1, and the attacker is inside your firing arc, add 1 Evade result. Probably fine.

Shadow CasterWave 93Pursuit Craft only.After you perform an attack that hits, if the defender is inside your mobile firing arc and at Range 1-2, you may assign the defender 1 tractor beam token. Does nothing

Adaptive AileronsWave 100TIE Striker only.Immediately before you reveal your dial, if you are not stressed, you must execute a white (Left Bank 1), (Straight 1) or (Right Bank 1) maneuver. So much fun.  So much risk of running over obstacles

Pivot WingWave 100U-Wing only.Increase your agility value by 1. After you execute a maneuver, you may flip this card.  Probably fine, does nothign on the other side.

"Light Scyk" InterceptorC-ROC Cruiser Expansion Pack-2M3-A Interceptor only.All Damage cards dealt to you are dealt faceup. You may treat all bank maneuvers ([Left Bank] or [Right Bank]) as green maneuvers. You cannot equip Modification upgrades. May break the game from a technical perspective, but almost certainly fine from a balance perspective taking into account the ignoring negative costs.

•HavocScurrg H-6 Bomber Expansion Pack0Scurrg H-6 Bomber only.Your upgrade bar gains the (System) and (Salvaged Astromech) upgrade icons and loses the (Crew) upgrade icon. You cannot equip non-unique (Salvaged Astromech) Upgrade cards. Probably fine, but man does this show how overpriced Virago is?

Edited by thespaceinvader

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7 minutes ago, Helias de Nappo said:

Haha.  Perhaps, but the ship itself is interesting already and it's interestingness increases as various upgrades come out.  In my mind it just needs to be worth the points cost.

How much is an X-Wing with double hp and an auxilary arc worth?  Don't forget the large baseness

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I think Scum Kath with TIE/D and Ion Cannon could be broken.
Just keep the guy in front of you doing 1 forwards while you throw an extra dice at whoever's chasing you :P
Pop Expertise and Dengar on that and you're laughing.

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4 minutes ago, Stevey86 said:

I think Scum Kath with TIE/D and Ion Cannon could be broken.
Just keep the guy in front of you doing 1 forwards while you throw an extra dice at whoever's chasing you :P
Pop Expertise and Dengar on that and you're laughing.

If it was a small ship you'd quickly end up bumping them and then they'd get away.

1 minute ago, Stevey86 said:

Actually you put Gunner crew with TIE/D and you've got 2 primary attacks so long as you miss your cannon shot.

Yeah, that's a bit bent.

Probably just the unique titles then, at which point it could probably go down to 1 or even 0 points.

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Kuat system upgrade 

firespray only 

bomb slot. -2 points. 

you may barrel using the 1 template as if you were a Small ship. 

 

 

Or

 

prison patrol ship

title. 0 points. 

Your action bar gains the boost icon. When boosting you may use the hard 1 template. 

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I love the Firespray, I've tried to run Boba with Engine Upgrade and Expertise and yet is not sufficient. The Slave and Boba Itself are like the Batcar and the Batman, respectivecly, so... At least in movies the only thing that we see about the Firespray is that is a ship with a lot of missiles and stuff like that.

Also, I think that Scum have a lot of ships that have stats like: 3/2/(5-6)/(4-5), and the Punishing One can be also another one with their Title... Soooooo... What if we put something like contrary to the "punishing one title"?:
 

Firespray Title (0p): Reduce your primary weapon stat by 1. Once per rould, you may choose one: Fire a Secondary Weapon from your secondary arc or flip a Missile upgrade card faceup. If you equip a Modification, Missile or Bomb Upgrade, its squad point cost is reduced by 2.

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1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

Mod: Faked Transponder Codes: Unique, 2 points, Firespray only.  You may equip any Title upgrade to this ship, paying any cost that upgrade may have, and ignoring any restrictions.  Treat any negative cost as costing 0 points.

Outrider Firespray?  Yeah.  Barrel Rolling Mist Hunter Firespray? Yeah.  Special Ops firespray?  YEAH.  Adaptive Ailerons Firespray? OMG yeah.  IG2000 firespray?  HECK YEAH.  X1 systems firespray, v1 TL Evade firespray, all the yeah.

I actually think that might be pretty balanced at the moment.  But it would be HUGELY at risk of becoming broken by new titles.

The main problem I see here is that this kind of upgrades complicate a lot the space of design in new Titles. Imagine it, whenever you have to design a new Title, you have not only to think how that Title affect that ship in the game, but also how that Title affect Firespray. Also, in terms of fluff, every ship can bring any tipe of Missiles, but... a Title is not an improvement of the sistems or weapons of the ship. A Title is what make special that kind of ship (I mean, a lot of ships can be from YT-1300 series, but only one YT-1300 can be the legendary super known Millenium Falcon).

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2 hours ago, MenaceNsobriety said:

I think almost any small bump would be enough for it to see more play. Scum Boba has a fantastic ability. The extra crew and a few more greens would be plenty.

I agree with that. The ship is really close to be good. It wouldnt require much. An extra crew, a system slot, a few more gree moves, any of those would probably work.

The one i would like the most would be a barrel roll or a boost action.  Not sure if that would make the ship too strong but it would be fun to fly.  Imperial Boba with navigator, push the limit and barrel roll.  The ultimate large ship arc dodger :)

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Dial and/or price is the big one to me.

It has a lot of upgrade options that just dont function on that ship very well (cannon, missile, title torp) due to its sheer price and want to abuse its aux arc.
On the aux arc, its dial really doesnt support it. It seriously needs a 1turn, even if its red. That, or a barrelroll (if not both) natively on its bar.

I play a lot of TIE/SFs and i have 0 issues getting rear shots with that thing because it actually has a full access dial, even if its mostly red. Firespray? Geez, unless i fly right past my opponent i rarely get the aux arc, which forces me to fly super far away to turn around since i cant slow-roll due to large base hopping as easily as the SFs can.

As it is i'd almost say its 5pts overcosted, if not worse. It simply cant maneuver very well because of its large base, if that dial was on a small base i dont think we'd care (ignoring small ship upgrade options here).

If they gave it the ability to take small ship upgrades, fire secondaries out of its aux arc, and/or gave it the option to turn the relative 1bank into a 1turn upon reveal, the firespray would be awesome in my eyes. I used to ignore it until i started using the SFs so much, and i wanted to see if i could replicate that on the firesprays...no such luck. That dial..plus large base... its so hard to get more than 1 shot with the aux arc.

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Hmm let's give it an x7 style treatment

 

-2 points title.

You may treat all green maneuvers as 1 speed faster and all white maneuvers as 1 speed slower. When you perform a red maneuver you may assign an evade token to yourself.

 

Gives it a hard 1, more greens, less cost, and adv free evade when it k turns.

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1 hour ago, GrimmyV said:

How much is an X-Wing with double hp and an auxilary arc worth?  Don't forget the large baseness

I won't claim to know what the points cost should be.  I know that wouldn't fly one as they are costed now, but I would fly 100 of them at 1 point each, so somewhere in the middle!

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