Lost in time and space - Last mythos pack for Dunwich

[Slothgodfather 270]

Greetings,

 

Deciphered Reality is not a replacement effect; its effect doesn’t use any form of ‘instead’ or ‘but,’ so its effect is in addition to the standard rewards for successfully investigating. (Otherwise it would say something like “instead of discovering a clue at your location…”) (Compare with Burglary). In other words, if you successfully use Deciphered Reality, you would discover 1 clue at your location, and 1 clue at each revealed location.

 

If you commit Deduction to this test, you would still discover 1 additional clue at your location; there is no reason why that wouldn’t also work here.

 

Hope that helps! Cheers,

------------------------------------------------

Matthew Newman

Edited July 6, 2017 by Slothgodfather

[Jobu 720]

And I thought I was flying high when Rex picked up 4 clues and a resource in one action.  Haven't gotten to try the 3 clues and 4 resources yet.

[Slothgodfather 270]

What's giving you 4 resources?

[Jobu 720]

9 minutes ago, Slothgodfather said:

What's giving you 4 resources?

Burglary & Doc Chris

[Buhallin 4,563]

36 minutes ago, Slothgodfather said:

Greetings,

 

Deciphered Reality is not a replacement effect; its effect doesn’t use any form of ‘instead’ or ‘but,’ so its effect is in addition to the standard rewards for successfully investigating. (Otherwise it would say something like “instead of discovering a clue at your location…”) (Compare with Burglary). In other words, if you successfully use Deciphered Reality, you would discover 1 clue at your location, and 1 clue at each revealed location.

 

If you commit Deduction to this test, you would still discover 1 additional clue at your location; there is no reason why that wouldn’t also work here.

 

Hope that helps! Cheers,

------------------------------------------------

Matthew Newman

Thanks for the submit and nice to see the quick response.

[Jobu 720]

Another question, how likely are you to include Deciphered Reality in your deck?

[Buhallin 4,563]

30 minutes ago, Jobu said:

Another question, how likely are you to include Deciphered Reality in your deck?

Low probability for me.  It's expensive, and very dependent on the scenario.  We just finished Blood on the Altar, where it could have been awesome mid-game.  And before that obviously Essex County Express, where it was totally useless.

When it's big, it's going to be VERY big - potentially 4-6 actions worth of clue gathering out of one card is huge.  But for a very expensive card it's also very situational.  So... maybe?  I'd probably add it late in a campaign once everything was thoroughly set up.

[Slothgodfather 270]

Agreed.  I'll use it, but it will likely be late game and hopefully the late scenarios will have enough locations with clues to warrant it. There are lots of scenarios would it could be insanely good, such as the 2nd scenario of the core, Extra Curricular activities, the Carnevale of Horrors, or Curse of the Rougarou to name a few.

I also think if your doing well enough XP wise, it's absolutely worth the slot by mid game.

[Soakman 987]

I think Deciphered Reality would be best suited to some kind of seeker built to be a lone wolf (lvl 0 Rogue card). Spend many of your actions revealing locations while taking advantage of lone wolf. At the moment, I think ONLY Rex Murphy can do this though.

And if you count the thematic investigators I created that are available for download, Astrid Lee, the Gossip and Eunice Goulding, the Geometrician. Both of those would also be able to Lone Wolf it while deciphering reality. I may need to try this...

Edited July 6, 2017 by Soakman

[Buhallin 4,563]

I think I figured out why Bait and Switch includes the instruction to evade if successful, even though it's not necessary.  It's to establish timing - it makes it clear that you evade first and then move.  Otherwise you could resolve them in whatever order you wanted, potentially dragging the engaged enemy to a new location before dropping him off.

 

[Slothgodfather 270]

On 3/30/2017 at 1:27 AM, Notturno81 said:

So we know for sure that the gold pocket watch isn't an exile card which was supposed in another thread:) I see Jenny with furiousness in her eyes while holding the Chicago typewriter:) Oooo yeah!

On the Gold Pocket Watch - at what point in the rules to investigators get their actions back?  A guy on Cardgamedb posted this:

After looking at the rules reference for investigator and upkeep phases, they say the mini card indicates which investigator have/doesn't have any actions left, but it explicitly says the upkeep is when the mini card flips over indicating a reset in the number of investigator actions.

[Buhallin 4,563]

The mini card is just for bookkeeping.  You get three actions during each investigator phase, and there's nothing in that which is conditional on the state of the mini card.

[Khudzlin 734]

The upkeep phase goes like this:

4.1 Upkeep phase begins.

Player Window

4.2 Reset actions.

4.3 Ready each exhausted card.

4.4 Each investigator draw 1 card and gains 1 resource.

4.5 Each investigator checks hand size

4.6 Upkeep phase ends. Round ends.

[awp832 447]

so if you wanted to say, repeat the Investigation phase, you could do that but you'd have to do it with no readied cards and no actions?   That's hilarious.

[Jobu 720]

3 hours ago, awp832 said:

so if you wanted to say, repeat the Investigation phase, you could do that but you'd have to do it with no readied cards and no actions?   That's hilarious.

I am not so sure about that.  The breakdown of the investigator phase does not make any mention of not being able to take your turn if your mini is flipped down.  It just says to take your turn.  That being said that phase 4.2 working makes a strong argument that you can't take your turn if you are flipped.  It definitely does not let you refresh exhausted cards so that's a definite limitation.

Also to note, as written the Pocket Watch technically can't be triggered to skip the mythos or enemy phase or repeat any phase.  It uses the free action trigger, but free actions can only be used during player windows.  There are no player windows at these junctures.

I am sure the intent is to be able skip or repeat any phase, I sure it will be faqed.

[Doma0997 72]

Would be errata'd to a reaction triggered ability, with "when a phase begins, remove gold pocket watch from the game:" as the timing and cost? That makes the ability actually work, but I think section 4.2 is going to be an issue because of the way they worded it. The obvious intent is you would get to take your actions over again in the investigator phase, however giving them back at this point seems like it will be a wordy work around. 

Another thing is, they don't actually address the meaning of repeat in the rules reference. Repeating it as is leaves you with no actions to take, but repeating it with the previous game state (besides actions taken) would refresh all the cards you used that round.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Doma0997

[DaeMord 9]

"Assuming actions reset" for the purposes of pocket watch for a second, i would also raise the natural issue of Leo, do we get 3 or 4 actions to use?

[Khudzlin 734]

Why wouldn't you get the additional action from Leo?

[awp832 447]

2 hours ago, Jobu said:

 The breakdown of the investigator phase does not make any mention of not being able to take your turn if your mini is flipped down.

in the learn to play rules (9) it says that unused actions are lost when you flip your mini card,   maybe that fits in here somewhere...

I'm inclined to say that since both refreshing cards and reseting actions happen in the Upkeep phase, if you're repeating Investigation phase than you get neither.    I can't see a case for say, -no on refreshing cards but yes on getting more actions.

Good point about the mythos phase.   As written it seems this card lets you...   repeat Upkeep?    You could skip the Monster phase -which could still be handy, and I'm pretty sure that one is legit.

 

[DaeMord 9]

38 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

Why wouldn't you get the additional action from Leo?

because if your resetting your actions thats fine, but why would you reset available additional actions as well?

[Khudzlin 734]

The additional actions are part of the actions you're allowed during the investigation phase. You get them at the same time you get the rulebook ones.

[BD Flory 695]

5 hours ago, Jobu said:

Also to note, as written the Pocket Watch technically can't be triggered to skip the mythos or enemy phase or repeat any phase.  It uses the free action trigger, but free actions can only be used during player windows.  There are no player windows at these junctures.

Strictly speaking, free triggers can't react to anything. It doesn't matter id there's a player window preceding or following the triggering condition. Player windows are their own thing. As written the card does nothing.

But as you say, that's pretty obviously not the intent, and I agree it'll be addressed.

Given how borked the card is, my feeling is the simple interpretation is probably the correct one: You can repeat or skip any phase, and you get your full complement of actions if it's the investigator phase (but don't ready exhausted cards).

[Buhallin 4,563]

So how do investigators take actions on the first turn of the game?  If they're only granted during upkeep, and you haven't had an upkeep phase yet, then you have no actions, right?

These are the relevant rules lines:

2.2.1: During his or her turn, an investigator is permitted to take three actions. (This is duplicated under the Action section).
2.2.2: Flip the active investigator’s mini card to its colorless side to show that the investigator’s turn has ended
4.2: Flip each investigator’s mini card back to its colored side. This indicates that the investigator’s actions have been reset for his or her next turn.

Emphasis is mine.

When you take a turn, you are permitted to take three actions.  Not however many actions are ready, or reset - three (insert Holy Hand Grenade joke here, bonus points for working in Leo).  "Reset" isn't even defined as a game term.

For the two lines which everyone is keying on here, I've bolded the (IMHO) important parts.  They reference the mini card as a tracking tool, nothing more.  It's not a binding example of whether you're allowed to take actions.  Setup instructions tell you where to put the mini card at the beginning of the game, but not which side should be up.

So, to summarize:
1. Investigators get three actions per turn, not per reset
2. Reset is undefined anyway
3. Everything referencing the mini card says it's just an indicator of other game states
4. Nothing outside of 2.2.1 tells you when you gain actions, so if it's not there you get no actions during the first turn

 

Edit: To clarify a bit...  With the exception of two lines relating to the mini card, no part of the rules are written like you have some pool of actions which you use up and then are refreshed at some specific trigger point in the game.  Not the setup, not the actual turns, not even the lines in question are written with the detail and definition of actual rules.  That points pretty strongly to them not being actual rules.

 

Edited July 9, 2017 by Buhallin

[RichardPlunkett 81]

I think you left out the part of 2.2 that says "Each investigator takes one turn each round." Then "2.2.2 says if there is an investigator who has not yet taken a turn this round, return to 2.2."

Btw, I think it's pretty clear that a turn is a new set of actions, and I agree the whole mini-card thing is distraction. The title of 4.2 "Reset actions" has me more worried than the text of it, because I don't think the mini-card has any real standing. I think I am with Buhallin on this.

But "One turn per round" would be a problem for the pocket watch. There is also some incoherent stuff here. 2.2 "Next investigator’s turn begins.", doesn't check if you have had a turn this round, but 2.2.2 does, so arguably one of the investigators gets a turn, and the rest don't. I can't imagine that being the actual solution though.

But a once-per-round rule in a once-per-round phase might just be lack of forethought. I think its more likely the intent is you get one turn per Investigation Phase.

I suspect part of this belief stems from the Learn to Play book. If you read it and the pocket watch, instead of reading the rules, life is clear and simple: "During this phase, each investigator takes a separate turn. The investigators, as a group, choose which investigator takes the first turn. When an investigator’s turn ends, choose an investigator to take the next turn, and so on, until each investigator has taken his or her turn.
Each investigator has three actions during his or herturn that may be used to perform a variety of tasks."

So repeating the phase gets you all another turn, and thus a new set of actions. Clean, simple, obvious. It's a shame in this instance that that book has no real standing, and the algorithmic encoding they selected for the main rules falls over badly.

 

[gokubb 234]

Just got finished playing through Midnight Masks again with these new cards. Deciphered Reality was fantastic. So was Exceptional Gold Watch. We ran Rex and Jenny through Gathering and each left with 9 XP (thanks to Delve too Deep). Rex hit Deciphered Reality early in Midnight Masks and we ended up getting all the cultists with four turns to spare. Never got more than four cultists before.