Lost in time and space - Last mythos pack for Dunwich

[AleksDj 89]

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/3/29/ahc-lost-in-time-and-space/

 

Last Mythos announced for Dunwich!

[dewbie420 1,632]

Love the new guns!

[Notturno81 6]

So we know for sure that the gold pocket watch isn't an exile card which was supposed in another thread:) I see Jenny with furiousness in her eyes while holding the Chicago typewriter:) Oooo yeah!

[mwmcintyre 271]

So, not exile, but "remove from game". Does this mean just for that scenario and then you put it back in your deck, or that no one can even ever buy it again?

 

Edit: "Game" is defined in the rules reference as the single scenario you are currently playing, so my interpretation is that it goes back in your deck for the next scenario.

Edited March 30, 2017 by mwmcintyre

[Notturno81 6]

Yes. it is removed from the game to avoid possibility of using it again in the same scenario by picking it back from discard pile. Then you shuffle it into your deck for the next scenario.

[zooeyglass 327]

I'm delighted by all of these. It's the sixth pack, so you want some powerful cards - and it's great that investigators can start planning for what they'd like to invest in. Really cool to see two beefy weapons and our first exceptional card, too! 

[Notturno81 6]

14 minutes ago, zooeyglass said:

 Really cool to see two beefy weapons and our first exceptional card, too! 

Actually it's not the first exceptional. In "Where doom awaits" we will have "Ace in the hole":)

[zooeyglass 327]

On 3/30/2017 at 10:56 AM, Notturno81 said:

Actually it's not the first exceptional. In "Where doom awaits" we will have "Ace in the hole":)

a-ha, good spot! Back to that news article for me!

[Slothgodfather 270]

How does Deciphered Reality interact with Deduction?

 

Deciphered Reality: Investigate. The difficulty of this skill test is equal to the highest shroud value among revealed locations in play. If you succeed, discover 1 clue from each revealed location in play.

Deduction: If this skill test is successful while investigating a location, discover 1 additional clue at that location. 

[mwmcintyre 271]

5 minutes ago, Slothgodfather said:

How does Deciphered Reality interact with Deduction?

 

Deciphered Reality: Investigate. The difficulty of this skill test is equal to the highest shroud value among revealed locations in play. If you succeed, discover 1 clue from each revealed location in play.

Deduction: If this skill test is successful while investigating a location, discover 1 additional clue at that location. 

My first instinct would be that the deduction text does not trigger because you are not investigating a specific location.

 

[Khudzlin 734]

You're investigating the location you're in. So you get 2 clues from that one (1 for Deciphered Reality and 1 for Deduction) and 1 from each of the other revealed ones.

[Slothgodfather 270]

That was my first impression as well, since it IS an investigation action that you are doing at a given location, I'd still think it applies to the location you are at.   Just wanted second opinions. 

[Jobu 720]

On 3/30/2017 at 5:56 AM, Notturno81 said:

Actually it's not the first exceptional. In "Where doom awaits" we will have "Ace in the hole":)

I thought the 1st Exceptional was in Undimensioned and Unseen.  Lucky Dice...

[Slothgodfather 270]

Yea, we have Lucky Dice, Ace in the Hole and The Gold Pocket Watch.

It's interesting how all 3 exceptional cards are in rogue - my over all least favorite faction.

[awp832 447]

So far I have yet to be impressed with any of the Exceptional cards, to be honest..    That experience is better spent elsewhere.

[Buhallin 4,563]

41 minutes ago, awp832 said:

So far I have yet to be impressed with any of the Exceptional cards, to be honest..    That experience is better spent elsewhere.

I think the Pocket Watch is absolutely huge.  Certainly pricey in terms of experience, but getting a full extra free turn is crazy.  I pretty much play exclusively 4-player games though, and it does get better with more players.

[Buhallin 4,563]

7 hours ago, Khudzlin said:

You're investigating the location you're in. So you get 2 clues from that one (1 for Deciphered Reality and 1 for Deduction) and 1 from each of the other revealed ones.

Then Deciphered Reality should normally give you two from the location you're at even without Deduction, right?  Nothing in the text removes or changes the standard "reward" for investigating, so you investigate, succeed, get a clue for the normal investigation action, then get 1 from each for the separate "If you succeed..." on DR.

I think?  This one is odd.

[mwmcintyre 271]

8 hours ago, Khudzlin said:

You're investigating the location you're in. So you get 2 clues from that one (1 for Deciphered Reality and 1 for Deduction) and 1 from each of the other revealed ones.

And that's where I disagree. There is nothing stating that the investigate action is for the location you are in. You are just making a generic Investigate action using the highest difficulty of all the locations in play.

[mwmcintyre 271]

4 hours ago, Slothgodfather said:

Yea, we have Lucky Dice, Ace in the Hole and The Gold Pocket Watch.

It's interesting how all 3 exceptional cards are in rogue - my over all least favorite faction.

And also interestingly, the only cards to utilize Exile are Survivor cards - and the Survivor class has no cards with a higher than 3XP cost to put in your deck.

[Khudzlin 734]

5 hours ago, mwmcintyre said:

And that's where I disagree. There is nothing stating that the investigate action is for the location you are in. You are just making a generic Investigate action using the highest difficulty of all the locations in play.

Well, we have those sections in the Rules Reference:

Quote

Action Designators
Some abilities have bold action designators (such as Fight, Evade, Investigate, or Move). Activating such an ability performs the designated action as described in the rules, but modified in the manner described by the ability.

Quote

Investigate Action
“Investigate” is an action an investigator may take during his or her turn in the investigation phase.

Each time an investigator takes this action, he or she makes an intellect test against the shroud value of that location (see “Skill Tests” on page 18).

If the test is successful, the investigator has succeeded in investigating the location, he or she discovers one clue at the location. (This occurs during step 7 of the skill test, per “ST.7 Apply skill test results” on page 26.)

Any time an investigator discovers a clue from a location, that player takes the clue from the location and places it on his or her investigator card, under his or her control.

If the test is failed, the investigator has failed in investigating the location. No clues are discovered during step 7 of the skill test.

The card modifies the investigate action. It explicitly changes the shroud value and the reward for succeeding (so only 1 clue from your location, @Buhallin), but doesn't change the rest, so you're investigating the location you're in and the consequence for failure is still the same (you find no clues).

[Buhallin 4,563]

54 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

It explicitly changes the shroud value and the reward for succeeding (so only 1 clue from your location, @Buhallin)

I agree that it explicitly changes the target number for the test, but I'm not entirely sure about the reward.  Nothing in the text explicitly replaces the basic reward.  "If you succeed..." is a common structure, and seems to sometimes assume full replacement of the basic effect, and sometimes modifies it.  Examples:

Rite of Seeking: If you succeed, discover 1 additional clue at this location.
Bait and Switch: If you succeed, if the enemy is non-Elite, evade the enemy and move it to a connecting location.
Searching for Izzie: If you succeed, instead of discovering clues, discard Searching for Izzie.
Burglary: If you succeed, instead of discovering clues, gain 3 resources.
Seeking Answers: If you succeed, instead of discovering a clue at your location, discover a clue at a connecting location.

There's definitely some inconsistency.  Rite of Seeking pretty clearly seems to be a modifier. Bait and Switch feels like a replacement because it tells you to evade it (which should be inherent to the successful evade).  Searching for Izzie, Burglary, and Seeking Answers (the closest comparison) all explicitly tell you that you don't get the normal clue for the investigation by having an explicit replacement effect.  That could just be redundancy, but I don't think so - "instead" is a replacement effect, which means that for it to work you have to discover the clues in the first place.  That points pretty strongly to the default reward still being in place.

(And, FWIW, I do agree that you're still investigating the location you're at, because nothing changes that)

[Khudzlin 734]

Well, as I see it, the problem is that Deciphered Reality uses neither "instead" nor "additional", which would make it clear one way or another.

[Buhallin 4,563]

46 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

Well, as I see it, the problem is that Deciphered Reality uses neither "instead" nor "additional", which would make it clear one way or another.

It could certainly be clearer and I can see them ruling it as you're thinking, but I think the frequent use of "instead" for investigation actions means the standard reward is there.  Again, cards like Burglary are worded such that they don't work if the standard reward is replaced by the text.  Given a choice between an interpretation that possibly gives one more clue than intended and one that breaks most of the investigation abilities in the game, I'll go for the extra clue   An interpretation that breaks that many cards is very probably wrong.

I don't think it's really all that out of line anyway.  We are talking about a Level 5 event that costs 4 resources to play, and one that can often be situational.  

[Jobu 720]

On 3/30/2017 at 2:34 AM, mwmcintyre said:

So, not exile, but "remove from game". Does this mean just for that scenario and then you put it back in your deck, or that no one can even ever buy it again?

 

Edit: "Game" is defined in the rules reference as the single scenario you are currently playing, so my interpretation is that it goes back in your deck for the next scenario.

Yep same as Wendy's weakness.  Remove throws a lot of people.

The alternative is the possibility of Wendy loosing almost her entire deck.

[Slothgodfather 270]

@Buhallin - I was wondering that as well since it was missing the replacement wording.  

 

I went ahead and sent in the question to find out for sure.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Slothgodfather