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Terminus-Est

Quickdraw, Vessery, and...?

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SpecOps (98)

"Quickdraw" — TIE/sf Fighter 29
Expertise 4
Fire-Control System 2
Lightweight Frame 2
Special Ops Training 0
Ship Total: 37
   
Colonel Vessery — TIE Defender 35
Veteran Instincts 1
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II 1
TIE/x7 -2
Ship Total: 35
   
"Omega Leader" — TIE/fo Fighter 21
Juke 2
Comm Relay 3
Ship Total: 26
 

 

I've run this for about five games now and won out.  All but one game had me with all my ships on the board (though mangled pretty good.)  Like others have said, you don't want to face any of the ships in the end game.  I've flown pretty sloppy with Omega as I haven't played in a few months due to real life and between Quickdraw and Vessery, it hasn't mattered too much.  I'm not really going against top tier meta lists so that helps, but it has felt pretty strong while going through the mechanics of the game!

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2 hours ago, Cubanboy said:

 

The Inquisitor (28) - TIE Adv. Prototype
A Score To Settle (0),  TIE/v1 (1), Autothrusters (2)

I run those two with a standard Inquisitor, as he's hard to hit / pin down and also wants to take a target lock.

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3 hours ago, AdmiralThrawn said:

I went with expertise because it is the easiest way to get full mods on both shots with quickdraw. Roll into range, target lock to get full mods and dare them to shoot you without a token.

@AdmiralThrawn, thanks for all the detail; this is really interesting to hear! 

Although I've seen the Top 4 match, I'm curious how you generally handled the approach with OL instead of a more obvious jouster/bait like Sabaac in the list; I'd be simultaneously inclined to hold OL back to keep him from being accidentally deleted early on, but also keen to keep him in the mix vs. e.g. Fenn/x7s/other elusive early threats where OL's ability can make a difference. What balance did you strike?

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28 minutes ago, Terminus-Est said:

@AdmiralThrawn, thanks for all the detail; this is really interesting to hear! 

Although I've seen the Top 4 match, I'm curious how you generally handled the approach with OL instead of a more obvious jouster/bait like Sabaac in the list; I'd be simultaneously inclined to hold OL back to keep him from being accidentally deleted early on, but also keen to keep him in the mix vs. e.g. Fenn/x7s/other elusive early threats where OL's ability can make a difference. What balance did you strike?

I'd like to know too. 

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3 hours ago, Savage Coyote said:

SpecOps (98)

"Quickdraw" — TIE/sf Fighter 29
Expertise 4
Fire-Control System 2
Lightweight Frame 2
Special Ops Training 0
Ship Total: 37
   
Colonel Vessery — TIE Defender 35
Veteran Instincts 1
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II 1
TIE/x7 -2
Ship Total: 35
   
"Omega Leader" — TIE/fo Fighter 21
Juke 2
Comm Relay 3
Ship Total: 26
 

 

I've run this for about five games now and won out.  All but one game had me with all my ships on the board (though mangled pretty good.)  Like others have said, you don't want to face any of the ships in the end game.  I've flown pretty sloppy with Omega as I haven't played in a few months due to real life and between Quickdraw and Vessery, it hasn't mattered too much.  I'm not really going against top tier meta lists so that helps, but it has felt pretty strong while going through the mechanics of the game!

Has anyone else tried this type of QD build?  how good is it?  Really good?  semi good?  Compared to 33 pts for Rage Baffle LWFrame? 

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Here's some individual builds that fit the OP requirements (this is not a squadron list)

"Zeta Leader" (21) - TIE/FO Fighter
Wired (1)

The Inquisitor (28) - TIE Adv. Prototype
Juke (2), TIE/v1 (1)

Zeta Specialist (25) - TIE/SF Fighter
Collision Detector (0), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

"Countdown" (22) - TIE Striker
Adaptive Ailerons (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

Here's a variation of my Hoth list. I went 4-2 and then lost the 7th on time and a half dozen points, if you're curious

Smart Ryad (100)

The Inquisitor (30) - TIE Adv. Prototype
Juke (2), TIE/v1 (1), Autothrusters (2)

"Quickdraw" (35) - TIE/SF Fighter
Wired (1), Fire Control System (2), Primed Thrusters (1), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

Countess Ryad (35) - TIE Defender
Outmaneuver (3), TIE/x7 (-2)

Toying with Ruthlessness for Ryad or Draw Their Fire on Quickdraw... would not recommend both. 

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44 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Has anyone else tried this type of QD build?  how good is it?  Really good?  semi good?  Compared to 33 pts for Rage Baffle LWFrame? 

I started out running a rage baffle QD and made a cut at a large store tourney 30+ with it.   It's a nice efficient, flexible build if short on points and does give QD options to fire in the activation phase.   However, mindlink makes it less effective (so a ship like Fenn has a token already) and I've moved toward making my opponent decide whether or not to shoot him.   If I damage myself to shoot early, it makes their choice much easier. 

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1 hour ago, Terminus-Est said:

@AdmiralThrawn, thanks for all the detail; this is really interesting to hear! 

Although I've seen the Top 4 match, I'm curious how you generally handled the approach with OL instead of a more obvious jouster/bait like Sabaac in the list; I'd be simultaneously inclined to hold OL back to keep him from being accidentally deleted early on, but also keen to keep him in the mix vs. e.g. Fenn/x7s/other elusive early threats where OL's ability can make a difference. What balance did you strike?

I typically hold Omega back in the initial approach, doing 1 turns and barell rolls to stall in the corner I start in. I don't always put omega in the opening joust just to make sure she's safe, and I figure the one or two damage I give up by leaving her out of the first engagement is well worth it if she lives to the end game. I usually play very safe with omega and never sloop or k turn if I don't have my evade and lock, and sometimes I'll just disengage and come back in when it's safer. Against fenn I like to have her kinda sneak up on him while the other Aces come at him from different angles. If your fenn and have quicldraw coming in and vessery getting behind you omega is not gonna be your priority. Also many people don't realize that against many lists if you don't kill omega your screwed. 

Basically I hold Omega back until she can enter combat safely, and usually she finds a way to sneak up on fenn or defenders.

The beauty of my list is everyone is a big threat to fenn, so I don't have as much pressure to get her in the fight early.

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In fact, I usually play all 3 of those aces slow at the beginning of the match, slowrolling so that I can feel out where my opponents going and confuse them. This can be a detriment though, as you saw in the top 4 game, where it actually would have been to my advantage to bum rush nathans list. Also in the process of slow rolling the defender I got him way out of position. I've learned it's important to not always commit to one strategy.

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3 hours ago, Terminus-Est said:

@AdmiralThrawn, thanks for all the detail; this is really interesting to hear! 

Although I've seen the Top 4 match, I'm curious how you generally handled the approach with OL instead of a more obvious jouster/bait like Sabaac in the list; I'd be simultaneously inclined to hold OL back to keep him from being accidentally deleted early on, but also keen to keep him in the mix vs. e.g. Fenn/x7s/other elusive early threats where OL's ability can make a difference. What balance did you strike?

anyone have a link for that video?

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7 hours ago, AdmiralThrawn said:

I'm the imperial player who made top 4 at hoth with that list and I'm glad to see people like it! Imperials are most definatley not dead and the recent hit to palp (which isn't all that bad) has made the triple aces list one of the best choices for imperials. A few points on why I chose certain upgrades and ships:

Crackshot on Vessery was mainly to deal with Fenn Rau. Fenn can't take an evade, and with full mods, Vessery is usually rolling 3 damage, which gurentees fenn gets hit. That one damage from crackshot can turn the tide almost every game. My go too before this meta on Vessery was vi, but with the recent x7 nerf a lower ps defender is much better anyway.

Ps 9 FCS on quickdraw is AMAZING as you mentioned with vessery, and allows a lot of flexibility. You can screw up your initial engagement and as long as Quickdraw gets that shot Vessery gets his buddy lock.

I went with expertise because it is the easiest way to get full mods on both shots with quickdraw. Roll into range, target lock to get full mods and dare them to shoot you without a token. Assaj has been a problem with the stress, but Quickdraw with expertise turned off is still very dangerous, and if assaj is stressing Quickdraw Vessery is free to get his evade and other action.

When Quickdraw first came out I tried the self damaging baffle and rage build and deemed her pretty meh. But recently with the lightweight and pa out Quickdraw does not need to self damage to be good. Your opponent will strip the Shields for you, and if they don't WHO CARES you have a full health tanky ship shooting with full mods at ps 9 every turn.

I went with Omega for the reason a lot of you mentioned: There's no better end game ship. I've flown omega  alot and for 26 points I couldn't pass up the reliability. With omega as long as I get her against one or even 2 ships in the end game, I have a very good chance of winning if I have enough time. (Unless shes against rebel regen, which those of you who saw my top 4 match know) Omega is also amazing against both fenn and assaj, so It was a great tool to deal with parattani. Omega is also mostly immune to stress.

Early on i tested both backdraft and strikers in place of omega and vessery, but I chose what I did because of their reliability. I wanted ships I could count on in my first large tournament, and I found strikers and backdraft to be more difficult to reliably do well with the practice I had. I am looking back into strikers and backdraft though, and I'm going to start trying tie D Vessery as well.

Also if your an imperial player in this meta, don't go the ptl route. I love my ptl aces, but they just don't cut it in this meta of stress control, and the need for constant damage. I had amazing results when I switched from ptl to the list I used. 

 

Sorry for the long read but I hope I can give you guys some insight into the strengths of the cards I chose!

Have you though about juke on Vessery instead of Crack? Since he attacks after Quick the target is more likely to be without a focus. In that case both abilities would have the same effect but juke would be permanent.  When it's time for Vessery to attack Fenn, do you find that he still has a focus most of the time?

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8 minutes ago, Thormind said:

Have you though about juke on Vessery instead of Crack? Since he attacks after Quick the target is more likely to be without a focus. In that case both abilities would have the same effect but juke would be permanent.  When it's time for Vessery to attack Fenn, do you find that he still has a focus most of the time?

I considered that but going into hoth parattani was still very popular so fenn and assaj would typically have 2 focus tokens, enough for Quickdraw and vessery. Whether or not vessery spends his focus on defense before attacking depends on dice, but I almost always spend the evade so that's another reason. Also I like how crack is gurenteed, juke could never be useful and it's twice the cost. Might be worth looking at now though with less prattani, Attani is still very popular though.

Edited by AdmiralThrawn

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2 minutes ago, AdmiralThrawn said:

I considered that but going into hoth parattani was still very popular so fenn and assaj would typically have 2 focus tokens, enough for Quickdraw and vessery. Whether or not vessery spends his focus on defense before attacking depends on dice, but I almost always spend the evade so that's another reason. Also I like how crack is gurenteed, juke could never be useful and it's twice the cost. Might be worth looking at now though with less prattani, Attani is still very popular though.

I think the rise of Mindlink is a big reason we've seen Juke Defenders disappear.

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1 hour ago, AdmiralThrawn said:

Team covenant will be posting the video within the next month or two but search golds squadron podcast on twitch and it's towards the end of their most recent hoth streaming video.

Got it, tks. You must have been happy when you saw you would be facing that a-wing squad? :-) That one round where you boxed Nora was a pretty good move.

Edited by Thormind

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26 minutes ago, Thormind said:

Got it, tks. You must have been happy when you saw you would be facing that a-wing squad? :-) That one round where you boxed Nora was a pretty good move.

Thanks! And yeah I was happy with the result, was just trying to be very careful the entire game, anytime I go too confident into a matchup I end up losing. The list was definatley unconventional but not to be underestimated.

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I ran this yesterday against paratani

2sf defender (99/100)

=====================

TIE/SF Fighter: "Quickdraw" (29 + 4)

 + Adaptability (0)

 + Fire Control System (2)

 + Special Ops Training (0)

 + Lightweight Frame (2)

TIE Defender: Colonel Vessery (35)

 + Veteran Instincts (1)

 + TIE/x7 (-2)

 + Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE/SF Fighter: "Backdraft" (27 + 4)

 + Adaptability (0)

 + Fire Control System (2)

 + Special Ops Training (0)

 + Lightweight Frame (2)

It was a close match. But I couldn't quite finish Manaroo before time was called. And my opponents Fen was still alive due some really lucky evade rolls.

So i thought what if I skip the Ion engines on Vessery and just give everyone a crack shot.

That should give the list a great punch in the opening round fire. Thoughts?

 

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13 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Has anyone else tried this type of QD build?  how good is it?  Really good?  semi good?  Compared to 33 pts for Rage Baffle LWFrame? 

It's tricky to compare, they fly quite differently. Rage/Baffle QD is effectively a guided missile that you throw at the enemy and know you will have a pretty good chance to take out a vital piece in exchange.

I have played a more tooled-up QD (although I prefer Predator over Expertise to minimise stress vulnerability). Ideally you want this QD flitting between ships to make the most of the dual arcs rather than going head-to-head with a single opponent. Here the objective is to a be a nuisance and discourage the enemy from shooting you. Use the 2nd shot as a deterrent rather than a hammer. It works well paired with Gunner/Vader RAC.

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13 hours ago, AdmiralThrawn said:

Thanks! And yeah I was happy with the result, was just trying to be very careful the entire game, anytime I go too confident into a matchup I end up losing. The list was definatley unconventional but not to be underestimated.

I did not know it was you who lost to Nathan builds before watching the video. I felt in love when i saw that build in the top 8 list. It's so... beautiful.

  • Corran + PtL + FCS + R2-D2 + EU
  • Ashoka + VI + Captured TIE + Sabine's Masterpiece + Seismic Charges + Sabine + Scavenger Crane +  
  • Biggs + R4-D6 + IA

With that squad i assume any ps9+ are top target priority. Anything lower PS than Ahsoka cant attack her. Corran/Biggs is already a good combo. When supported by the Tie i assume hes a real pain to put down.

You said you would have been more aggressive for that match. What else would you have done differently? Do you think it would have been a good idea to rush Biggs with Vessery and Omega wile keeping Quickdraw safer in the back? Maybe try to present Omega as the best 1st target for your oponent?

When Bigg is down you brind QuickDraw in. Full heath Quick vs full health Corran means you have at least 1-2 rounds where you both get to attack twice. If the 2 are jousting, who comes on top?

Lets say you traded Vessery or Omega for Biggs, who do you target next? With 2 vs 2 ships, do you focus Corran or Ashoka? I would say Corran wile you have the firepower to put him down but how good is Ashoka endgame?

 

 

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58 minutes ago, Thormind said:

I did not know it was you who lost to Nathan builds before watching the video. I felt in love when i saw that build in the top 8 list. It's so... beautiful.

  • Corran + PtL + FCS + R2-D2 + EU
  • Ashoka + VI + Captured TIE + Sabine's Masterpiece + Seismic Charges + Sabine + Scavenger Crane +  
  • Biggs + R4-D6 + IA

With that squad i assume any ps9+ are top target priority. Anything lower PS than Ahsoka cant attack her. Corran/Biggs is already a good combo. When supported by the Tie i assume hes a real pain to put down.

You said you would have been more aggressive for that match. What else would you have done differently? Do you think it would have been a good idea to rush Biggs with Vessery and Omega wile keeping Quickdraw safer in the back? Maybe try to present Omega as the best 1st target for your oponent?

When Bigg is down you brind QuickDraw in. Full heath Quick vs full health Corran means you have at least 1-2 rounds where you both get to attack twice. If the 2 are jousting, who comes on top?

Lets say you traded Vessery or Omega for Biggs, who do you target next? With 2 vs 2 ships, do you focus Corran or Ashoka? I would say Corran wile you have the firepower to put him down but how good is Ashoka endgame?

 

 

I think it would have been best for me to just joust him, and get vessery and Quickdraw right in biggs face. He has a 3 die shot from biggs unmodded and 2 modded corran shots, while I have an omega, fully modded 3 dice vessery, and 2 fully modded Quickdraw shots that I don't have to give up a turn of firing like corran for. Especially if Quickdraw doesn't lose all of his Shields in the first pass I am even farther ahead.

I would probably want to take corran down after biggs, the list is after all built around him. If I could have shot at ashoka with just one left though I might just try to kill ashoka before corran comes back in, especially if he's already fully regened.

Overall I have not had much experience fighting corran and was worried by him, when I should have just realized I have a jousting advantage. My usual strategy against biggs lists is to drag them through the rocks and strike when they have a bad position, but trying to outmanuever nathan friggin eide in the rocks was a terrible idea. I also almost never rush forward with everyone, especially omega, but I should have recognized that he couldn't take a several rounds of all my ships firing.

 

In the end I fed him Quickdraw and lost all my Shields in one pass, and had vessery out of position the entire game. I know kevin lentz in the commentary was also suggesting that I should have went for the open space, which I also didn't consider. I've spent most of my x wing career playing dodgy ptl aces, so straight up jousting is not a strategy I naturally consider.

Edited by AdmiralThrawn

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47 minutes ago, AdmiralThrawn said:

In the end I fed him Quickdraw and lost all my Shields in one pass, and had vessery out of position the entire game. I know kevin lentz in the commentary was also suggesting that I should have went for the open space, which I also didn't consider. I've spent most of my x wing career playing dodgy ptl aces, so straight up jousting is not a strategy I naturally consider.

I understand you. First time a flew a swarm it was really weird to rush head in. My opponent wasnt used to swarm either, they are almost never played in my area. I think he was wondering why i was trying to go face to face with my fragile ships. Did not take long for him to figure out :-)

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57 minutes ago, AdmiralThrawn said:

I think it would have been best for me to just joust him, and get vessery and Quickdraw right in biggs face. He has a 3 die shot from biggs unmodded and 2 modded corran shots, while I have an omega, fully modded 3 dice vessery, and 2 fully modded Quickdraw shots that I don't have to give up a turn of firing like corran for. Especially if Quickdraw doesn't lose all of his Shields in the first pass I am even farther ahead.

I would probably want to take corran down after biggs, the list is after all built around him. If I could have shot at ashoka with just one left though I might just try to kill ashoka before corran comes back in, especially if he's already fully regened.

Overall I have not had much experience fighting corran and was worried by him, when I should have just realized I have a jousting advantage. My usual strategy against biggs lists is to drag them through the rocks and strike when they have a bad position, but trying to outmanuever nathan friggin eide in the rocks was a terrible idea. I also almost never rush forward with everyone, especially omega, but I should have recognized that he couldn't take a several rounds of all my ships firing.

 

In the end I fed him Quickdraw and lost all my Shields in one pass, and had vessery out of position the entire game. I know kevin lentz in the commentary was also suggesting that I should have went for the open space, which I also didn't consider. I've spent most of my x wing career playing dodgy ptl aces, so straight up jousting is not a strategy I naturally consider.

One last question:-) Im going to try the build tonight...

Outside of vs Fenn, was there any other moment you were happy ot have Crackshot on Vessery?

 

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Let me preface this by saying, this isn't something I have run but something that might have potential.

QD - Rage, Baffle, PA, Title, Lw Frame, XX-23's (36)

Vessery - X7 Title, Juke, Mk II Engines (36)

Sienar Specialist (Tie Aggressor generic) - Unguided Rockets, TLT, Guidance Chips (26)

It's a 98 point build, could switch the TLT for Synced Turret which would drop it to 96 points, allowing you to upgrade the generic depending on the Pilot Abilities and costs of the named pilots or just the higher PS of the Onyx Sqn Pilot (PS 5).

The Aggressor is probably a big target, low PS, 2 Agi (points wise, can drop chips for Lw Frame, assuming it's available for the Aggressor), but it's a target with a turret and HOPEFULLY a reasonable dial. Or focus one of the other 2 and this guy starts whittling people down with the TLT... 

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1 hour ago, Thormind said:

One last question:-) Im going to try the build tonight...

Outside of vs Fenn, was there any other moment you were happy ot have Crackshot on Vessery?

 

Yeah! Crackshot is great against anything, even ships with evade. One extra damage when you need it is worth it any game. Against non evade aces like fenn, the basically gurenteed damage is nice though.

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