GiledPallaeon 2,734 Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) So I'm in a list-building mood. What do people think of this double Liberty list? I can turn all the A-wings generic to get Sato or Madine and SFOs on both Star Cruisers, or X-wings. The GR-75s are intended to mimic @Aresius's cancer list with only one Liberty and twice as many A-wings, hanging in the back relaying squadron commands and hiding. Do people prefer another pair of turbolasers (preferably the same cost...)? Thanks guys, I appreciate it. Scharnhorst and Gneisenau Faction: Rebel Alliance Points: 400/400 Commander: General Dodonna Assault Objective: Most Wanted Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon Navigation Objective: Solar Corona MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points) - Engine Techs ( 8 points) - X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points) - XX-9 Turbolasers ( 5 points) - SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points) = 120 total ship cost MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points) - Engine Techs ( 8 points) - X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points) - XX-9 Turbolasers ( 5 points) - SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points) = 120 total ship cost [ flagship ] GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points) - General Dodonna ( 20 points) = 38 total ship cost GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points) = 18 total ship cost GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points) = 18 total ship cost 2 VCX-100 Freighters ( 30 points) 1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points) 1 Shara Bey ( 17 points) 1 Green Squadron ( 12 points) 1 A-Wing Squadron ( 11 points) Those are fast battleships, not battlecruisers, God-*******-d*****. Edited March 27, 2017 by GiledPallaeon 2 TheToad and Aresius reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkwing 121 Posted March 27, 2017 It really looks like an interesting list. The fact that you have five activations and some squadron cover looks intimidating. Please do provide an update on the list if you try any games with it, I'd love to hear your experiences with it 1 GiledPallaeon reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PT106 2,276 Posted March 27, 2017 Is the investment in multiple VCX to be able to relay 4 A-Wings worth it? I would drop them and downgrade Green Squadron to Z95 to get TRC Jaina's Light in the list. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GiledPallaeon 2,734 Posted March 27, 2017 13 minutes ago, pt106 said: Is the investment in multiple VCX to be able to relay 4 A-Wings worth it? I would drop them and downgrade Green Squadron to Z95 to get TRC Jaina's Light in the list. Another combatant won't hurt my feelings, but I was planning to use the VCXs as anti-fighter units alongside the A-wings to help offset the investment. If I don't take the VCX's that means that either the Liberty's must have squadron commands planned or the GR-75s have to follow close enough to command the fighters. The latter might be worth it at these lower squadron counts, but that still puts them in more danger than I was planning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PT106 2,276 Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said: Another combatant won't hurt my feelings, but I was planning to use the VCXs as anti-fighter units alongside the A-wings to help offset the investment. If I don't take the VCX's that means that either the Liberty's must have squadron commands planned or the GR-75s have to follow close enough to command the fighters. The latter might be worth it at these lower squadron counts, but that still puts them in more danger than I was planning. I wouldn't expect all AWings to survive for long, so after the initial positioning command you may find out that you only need to activate one or two a turn (Which can be achieved with a Comms Net Squadron token). In my mind (and from my experience playind 2ISD fleetS) having a third threat is more important here. Essentially I feel that you don't get enough return on the points used on those 2 VCX's and naked transports, given that your squads are purely defensive. Edited March 27, 2017 by pt106 1 GiledPallaeon reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sybreed 1,080 Posted March 27, 2017 personally, I would drop 1 flotilla and the VCX to have bigger squadron support, and use the flotillas as flak batteries/squad activaters. But, that's just me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GiledPallaeon 2,734 Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, pt106 said: I wouldn't expect all AWings to survive for long, so after the initial positioning command you may find out that you only need to activate one or two a turn (Which can be achieved with a Comms Net Squadron token). In my mind (and from my experience playind 2ISD fleetS) having a third threat is more important here. Essentially I feel that you don't get enough return on the points used on those 2 VCX's and naked transports, given that your squads are purely defensive. Impending doom is a fair point. That's one of the reasons the original version had X-wings instead, before I decided ET Liberty's really need A-wings to keep up with them. With that in mind, what yellow objective doesn't screw me? Contested Outpost is about the only thing that sticks out. Scharnhorst and Gneisenau Mk 2 Faction: Rebel Alliance Points: 399/400 Commander: General Dodonna Assault Objective: Most Wanted Defense Objective: Contested Outpost Navigation Objective: Solar Corona MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points) - Engine Techs ( 8 points) - X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points) - XX-9 Turbolasers ( 5 points) - SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points) = 120 total ship cost MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points) - Engine Techs ( 8 points) - X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points) - XX-9 Turbolasers ( 5 points) - SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points) = 120 total ship cost CR90 Corvette A (44 points) - Jaina's Light ( 2 points) - Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points) = 53 total ship cost GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points) - Comms Net ( 2 points) = 20 total ship cost [ flagship ] GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points) - General Dodonna ( 20 points) - Bright Hope ( 2 points) - Comms Net ( 2 points) = 42 total ship cost 1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points) 1 Shara Bey ( 17 points) 1 A-Wing Squadron ( 11 points) Card view link Edited March 27, 2017 by GiledPallaeon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sybreed 1,080 Posted March 27, 2017 But but but, what if you just skipped the CR90, put gunnery teams on both MC80s for AA fire, and add a few additionnal A-Wings? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GiledPallaeon 2,734 Posted March 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, Sybreed said: But but but, what if you just skipped the CR90, put gunnery teams on both MC80s for AA fire, and add a few additionnal A-Wings? First, I'd like a fifth activation just for the safety margin, so if I drop the CR90, I'd rather go back to a GR-75. Second, these are Star Cruisers. Their anti-squadron armament of a single black is not the most threatening thing in the world. I'd rather trade those fourteen points for an A-wing and some more other upgrades, like SFO or Bright Hope for Dodonna. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sybreed 1,080 Posted March 27, 2017 24 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said: First, I'd like a fifth activation just for the safety margin, so if I drop the CR90, I'd rather go back to a GR-75. Second, these are Star Cruisers. Their anti-squadron armament of a single black is not the most threatening thing in the world. I'd rather trade those fourteen points for an A-wing and some more other upgrades, like SFO or Bright Hope for Dodonna. derp, my bad, I'm so used to see Battlecruisers, I didn't notice these were SCs. 1 GiledPallaeon reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ardaedhel 10,807 Posted March 28, 2017 I think the VCX investment is actually worthwhile here if you find the four A-wings survivable enough. The VCX's open up some nice objectives for you. I'd run the original list with AG, Minefields, and either PIC or FL as you prefer. 1 GiledPallaeon reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GiledPallaeon 2,734 Posted March 29, 2017 9 hours ago, Ardaedhel said: I think the VCX investment is actually worthwhile here if you find the four A-wings survivable enough. The VCX's open up some nice objectives for you. I'd run the original list with AG, Minefields, and either PIC or FL as you prefer. That was my thought as well. The way I figured it, the Strategic of the VCX's is worth a lot, and with the right objectives is the third threat axis in its own right. If I go ham in that direction I think I'd end up somewhere around here: Scharnhorst and Gneisenau Mk 3 Faction: Rebel Alliance Points: 399/400 Commander: General Dodonna Assault Objective: Targeting Beacons Defense Objective: Planetary Ion Cannon Navigation Objective: Minefields MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points) - Engine Techs ( 8 points) - X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points) - XX-9 Turbolasers ( 5 points) - SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points) = 120 total ship cost MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points) - Engine Techs ( 8 points) - X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points) - XX-9 Turbolasers ( 5 points) - SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points) = 120 total ship cost [ flagship ] GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points) - General Dodonna ( 20 points) - Comms Net ( 2 points) = 40 total ship cost GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points) = 18 total ship cost GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points) = 18 total ship cost 1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points) 2 A-Wing Squadrons ( 22 points) 3 VCX-100 Freighters ( 45 points) Card view link Thoughts on Targeting Beacons vs Advanced Gunnery? I expect it, like the exact variation of turbolasers I would take to a tournament, will vary with time as I practice, but generally what is the balance? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aresius 137 Posted March 29, 2017 I think you can opt for most wanted or precision strike for red mission, fire lanes for yellow and intel seep for blue Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Norell 1,138 Posted March 31, 2017 This list begs for Madine. With him the Liberty truly dances. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GiledPallaeon 2,734 Posted April 25, 2017 After some work with @Ginkapo this is the current iteration of S&G. It's got some compromises I'm not a fan of, like two E-wings instead of three to guarantee knockouts against Intel aces and no Strategic, but if I play safely it should be ok. (There's an encouraging statement.) I also look forward to the hilarity of Mon Karren/OP. I'm also sorely tempted to move Slicers onto Bright Hope and spend my 19 new points to get the E-wing back and upgrade DTT into a Spinal, but that might be cutting the activations a bit bare. Scharnhorst and Gneisenau Mk 5 Author: GiledPallaeon Faction: Rebel Alliance Points: 399/400 Commander: General Madine Assault Objective: Blockade Run Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points) - Mon Karren ( 8 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - Engine Techs ( 8 points) - Overload Pulse ( 8 points) = 127 total ship cost MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - Engine Techs ( 8 points) - XX-9 Turbolasers ( 5 points) - Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points) - SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points) = 126 total ship cost GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points) - Quantum Storm ( 1 points) - Slicer Tools ( 7 points) = 26 total ship cost [ flagship ] GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points) - General Madine ( 30 points) - Bright Hope ( 2 points) - Toryn Farr ( 7 points) = 57 total ship cost 2 E-Wing Squadrons ( 30 points) 1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points) 1 Shara Bey ( 17 points) 1 Ardaedhel reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GiledPallaeon 2,734 Posted April 25, 2017 And if I'm in a somewhat more brutish and direct mood, I can always cross the North Sea (and travel back in time twenty-ish years). Renown and Repulse Author: GiledPallaeon Faction: Rebel Alliance Points: 400/400 Commander: General Madine Assault Objective: Blockade Run Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory [ flagship ] GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points) - General Madine ( 30 points) - Comms Net ( 2 points) = 50 total ship cost GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points) - Comms Net ( 2 points) = 20 total ship cost MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points) - Liberty ( 3 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - Engine Techs ( 8 points) - X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points) - XX-9 Turbolasers ( 5 points) - Leading Shots ( 4 points) = 136 total ship cost MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - Engine Techs ( 8 points) - X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points) - XX-9 Turbolasers ( 5 points) - Leading Shots ( 4 points) = 133 total ship cost 1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points) 3 E-Wing Squadrons ( 45 points) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ardaedhel 10,807 Posted April 25, 2017 Hahahaha! How have I never seen MK/OP before? That's hilarious! 1 GiledPallaeon reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GiledPallaeon 2,734 Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ardaedhel said: Hahahaha! How have I never seen MK/OP before? That's hilarious! It is 100% Gink's idea. His theory is that you spend the entire universe when OP hits, but MK says, "Lulz no, get ramblin' rekt." Edited April 25, 2017 by GiledPallaeon As we say here at the North Avenue Trade School Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Card Knight 367 Posted April 25, 2017 1 hour ago, GiledPallaeon said: It is 100% Gink's idea. His theory is that you spend the entire universe when OP hits, but MK says, "Lulz no" I've thought about the MK/OP combo, but haven't had the chance to run it, but this list makes me very excited to try it out. I've also considered throwing it on there with Sato, to do it at long range... 1 GiledPallaeon reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GiledPallaeon 2,734 Posted April 25, 2017 17 minutes ago, Card Knight said: I've thought about the MK/OP combo, but haven't had the chance to run it, but this list makes me very excited to try it out. I've also considered throwing it on there with Sato, to do it at long range... I can see the appeal of that, especially when the other ship has the flexibility to whack on the victim with blacks, but I don't think this is the fleet to do it. Or rather, such a fleet might have a Liberty, but I really really doubt it will have two. The Liberty and Home One are the only two Rebel options to pull that stunt, but both are hugely expensive ships, and Sato wants as many attacks as possible to get mileage out of him. You also want a stiff-ish fighter screen to lock down Rhymer balls, etc, and this accomplishes that without leaving much to spare to paint targets. By all means, please experiment and report back (preferably before this goes to GK roundabouts 4/30). And on that note, the variant I like the most so far is this one, technically a R&R derivative, but S&G Mk 6 Scharnhorst and Gneisenau Mk 6 Author: GiledPallaeon Faction: Rebel Alliance Points: 400/400 Commander: General Madine Assault Objective: Blockade Run Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points) - Mon Karren ( 8 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - Engine Techs ( 8 points) - Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points) - Overload Pulse ( 8 points) = 132 total ship cost MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points) - Liberty ( 3 points) - Gunnery Team ( 7 points) - Engine Techs ( 8 points) - X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points) - XX-9 Turbolasers ( 5 points) - SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points) = 130 total ship cost [ flagship ] GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points) - General Madine ( 30 points) - Comms Net ( 2 points) = 50 total ship cost GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points) - Toryn Farr ( 7 points) - Comms Net ( 2 points) = 27 total ship cost 1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points) 3 E-Wing Squadrons ( 45 points) 1 deDios reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
