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Kilcannon

Cyberware and the force

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That is an odd bit from the canon if you think about it though.   Every version makes a point, hammers it home actually, that droids, and other mechanical things don't have any connection to the Force, and using Force powers on them, aside from the direct physical kind, have no effect.  And yet, becoming mostly robot, doesn't have any negative effect on using the Force. 

I mean, I don't have a problem with this mechanically, but as far as thematically, it does seem sort of like a bit of an oversight.  Regardless, I'd never implement any rules like Humanity from Shadowrun.

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I would say having a connection to the Force clearly has to do with biotic life, droids never possess biotic life, but unfortunately there are tsil - silicon-based-life Force Sensitives - at least in Legends.

Well, maybe it's consciousness then?

No, there's mindless animals and plants with Force Sensitivity. And what separates a "droid-brain" from consciousness anyway?

Well, I guess it's just midichlorians then, and droids don't get 'em.

Regardless of the narrative/fiction "reasoning" there's no mechanical effect in the rpg.

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Cybernetics and loss of body parts weakening your Force power isn't supported by the canon since the reboot,  for what it's worth. Vader is super strong in Rogue One,  and Maul survives being cut in half through the Force and doesn't seem diminished in his Force strength in Clone Wars and Rebels.

 

 

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I have read several times lately that Palpatine said Vader would never be able to conjure Force Lightning due to his damaged/missing hands. Kanan Jarrus had a period of readjustment, learning to "see" with the Force after Maul blinded him. My vote is that here is a narrative reason for disconnect if you want it.

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10 minutes ago, orcface999 said:

I have read several times lately that Palpatine said Vader would never be able to conjure Force Lightning due to his damaged/missing hands.

  While he may have said that, I wouldn't take him as a trustworthy source, especially with that audience.

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41 minutes ago, orcface999 said:

I have read several times lately that Palpatine said Vader would never be able to conjure Force Lightning due to his damaged/missing hands. Kanan Jarrus had a period of readjustment, learning to "see" with the Force after Maul blinded him. My vote is that here is a narrative reason for disconnect if you want it.

Read fan discussions, or read in current novels? Do you remember the specifics?

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Just several mentions in forum discussions, all of which probably refer to the info in The Revenge of the Sith Visual Dictionary. I have not read Lords Of The Sith yet, that is set early enough that it might be mentioned there.

 

Edit: Page 63 of that book in the Data File box

 

Edited by orcface999

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The whole "cybernetics impact your ability to use the Force" was from WEG, and built entirely around the author's perception of Obi-Wan's line about how Vader was "more machine than man now."  Though with WEG, it was more than a person with substantial cybernetic enhancement/replacements (like Vader) would be more prone to succumbing to the dark side than any sort of direct penalty.

It was WotC that mechanically had cybernetics give a penalty to Force skill checks, with RotJ Luke having a minor penalty due to his hand, and Vader having a far steeper penalty, possibly as a means to "balance out" why Luke was able to operate on close to the same level of Force ability as the older and vastly more experienced Vader.

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other reasons given about vader using force lightning,

Palpatine instituted the rule of one, and didnt pass on what he learned to vader

Vader was damaged goods, and was worth less to him as an apprentice after his dismemberment and so became the ultimate enforcer rather than apprentice. 

Vaders life support suit was too fragile electronically for him to wield lightning and would kill him if he tried.

Vader wasnt exactly a sith and more of a fallen Jedi, we certainly dont see him using sith techniques in any of the canon material, he uses powers trained to him as a jedi, even his force choke was used in the clone wars a number of times, which also points towards Vader getting no further training for Palpatine, it is entirely  possible that Palpatine felt tat training him further wasnt in his best interest. Dooku as good as he ws wasnt as good as Anakin by the tme he gets. to RotS, albeit the sabre fight he was planning to lose (behind the scenes and novelization covered this better , also Obi-wan was less of a let down in that fight in the novel)

It is clear Vader didnt lose much on the way of force power , being able to deflect Hans blaster bolt without a sabre, something we dont see often, and afaik only Kylo Ren had a similar ability. We see Yoda absorb attacks, but other Jedi used lightsabers. Rebels have him walk out from an ATST and Vader Down (canon comic) has him throwing rebel starfighters around. He is not weak by any standards.

Personally I see him more of a fallen Jedi and I can think of no canon reference refering to further training from Palpatine.

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15 hours ago, syrath said:

other reasons given about vader using force lightning,

Palpatine instituted the rule of one, and didnt pass on what he learned to vader

Vader was damaged goods, and was worth less to him as an apprentice after his dismemberment and so became the ultimate enforcer rather than apprentice. 

Vaders life support suit was too fragile electronically for him to wield lightning and would kill him if he tried.

Vader wasnt exactly a sith and more of a fallen Jedi, we certainly dont see him using sith techniques in any of the canon material, he uses powers trained to him as a jedi, even his force choke was used in the clone wars a number of times, which also points towards Vader getting no further training for Palpatine, it is entirely  possible that Palpatine felt tat training him further wasnt in his best interest. Dooku as good as he ws wasnt as good as Anakin by the tme he gets. to RotS, albeit the sabre fight he was planning to lose (behind the scenes and novelization covered this better , also Obi-wan was less of a let down in that fight in the novel)

It is clear Vader didnt lose much on the way of force power , being able to deflect Hans blaster bolt without a sabre, something we dont see often, and afaik only Kylo Ren had a similar ability. We see Yoda absorb attacks, but other Jedi used lightsabers. Rebels have him walk out from an ATST and Vader Down (canon comic) has him throwing rebel starfighters around. He is not weak by any standards.

Personally I see him more of a fallen Jedi and I can think of no canon reference refering to further training from Palpatine.

Ok, I'm sorry but it seems like you're talking out of your butt here a little.

Darth Vader had a Sith name and title til the end. And Palpatine refers to Anakin/Vader as his apprentice.

The fact that he offers Luke a spot at his side could indicate he was shopping around for another apprentice, but that's not unfathomable if Vader was refusing to challenge Sid when Sid thought it was high time (as per the Ro2).

Can you provide any type of citation for this "Rule of 1" claim you're making?

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3 hours ago, emsquared said:

Ok, I'm sorry but it seems like you're talking out of your butt here a little.

Darth Vader had a Sith name and title til the end. And Palpatine refers to Anakin/Vader as his apprentice.

The fact that he offers Luke a spot at his side could indicate he was shopping around for another apprentice, but that's not unfathomable if Vader was refusing to challenge Sid when Sid thought it was high time (as per the Ro2).

Can you provide any type of citation for this "Rule of 1" claim you're making?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rule_of_One_(Palpatine's_Doctrine)

EDIT, also thanks for the insult, note that I said other reasons given, not necessarily mine, however the recent Vader (and note canon) comic series has Vader being frustrated by Palpatine because he is treated pretty much as an underling rather than an apprentice, with Palpatine even going as far as pitting him against another Dark Side agent that was also trying to oust Vader as Palpatines number 2. For a synopsis of the comics you can get info here - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Darth_Vader_(Marvel). The majority of the rest of the suggestions are from theories put forward over the last 30 or so years either by fans or by some fiction authors. The idea was that Palpatine wanted Anakin as his apprentice and got Vader as a result of Obiwan chopping him up and was damaged goods. Also the rule of one idea also worked insofar as once he got to his position of power , then he no longer needed an apprentice, this actually is borne out in the ideas put forward in the Aftermath novels ,where his goal is

 

to fry the entire empire for failing to keep him alive and start anew, this was his "First Order". The Aftermath books go into much more detail on this, but suffice it to say that Palpatine felt drawn to something in the outer regions and this also ties into Thrawns origins also.

Edited by syrath

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Ive read the book that has this , they are actually interesting reads all of them

Imperial Handbook - the Jedi Path - The Bounty Hunter Code, and the Book of Sith.

Note that since these the first two of these books were released before the Disney buy out (the jedi path and the book of sith) , they are considered legends afaik. The last 2 I think are.

 

Edited by syrath

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Honestly, cybernetics is one of those things where if the GM isn't constantly impressing on people that having actual upgrades to their body made immediately sets off red flags with anyone they deal with and you just allow them as a  straight up money -> power pipeline they can seriously break the game. Especially when you mix systems and allow the Cyberneticist class, which decreases the effective cost of installing a cybernetic to 2500 credits and ups the limit to them significantly you can pretty easily wind up with characters that just have more stat points and skill ranks than any non-cyberized characters could ever hope to have. 

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