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Toadie

[Question] Monster action trigger

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Assume the first two actions are:

1. "Engage the hero with the most search cards."

2. "Engage the closest hero."

What happen, if all heroes have the same amount of search cards e.g. zero:

a) The first action triggers and the hero will be randomly selected or

b) Because there are no heroes with search cards so the first action is skipped?

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"Most search cards" implies that there is at least one search card. If all heroes have 0 search cards, this action is skipped.

See post below.

 

Edited by Sadgit

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5 hours ago, Sadgit said:

"Most search cards" implies that there is at least one search card. If all heroes have 0 search cards, this action is skipped.

 

I  must say, our group does not play this way.  The way I see it, a number of search cards equaling zero is still a valid number of search cards.  So, if someone has 1 and every other hero has 0, it is obvious that most is the hero with 1.

But, if everyone has 0, to us, that is still a valid number of search cards ... it is a real number.  Since everyone is tied, we decide what hero the monster engages.  Rather than do it randomly, we choose the hero that is best for the Overlord.

Again, look at it this way.  If every hero has 1 search card, they are all tied as well.  Its not as if the number 0 has no meaning.

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I would argue that if all players have 1 search card (or 0, or any other equal number) that the instruction can't be parsed and you would skip to the next instruction. 

No one has the "most" cards so, like many other actions, it should be ignored. Other actions in the game are treated literally, so why not this one.

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I would argue that if all players have 1 search card (or 0, or any other equal number) that the instruction can't be parsed and you would skip to the next instruction. 

No one has the "most" cards so, like many other actions, it should be ignored. Other actions in the game are treated literally, so why not this one.

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I guess this is where we differ ...

If every hero has zero, or one, or two search cards, then the person with the "most" search cards is all of them.  It does not say to engage the hero with MORE search cards than any one else, it says to engage the hero with the "most" search cards.  Since they are tied, they all qualify.

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After checking the monster activation instructions for bandits in the current version of Road to Legend, I found that the action list that Toadie posted in the OP does not exist. Here is what it looks like:

Special effect (top window)
Each hero who suffers damage during an attack suffers additional hearts equal to the number of Search cards he has.

Minion bandits
Action: Engage the closest hero with a Search card.
Action: Use "Pillage" on the adjacent hero with the most Search cards.
Action: Attack the closest hero in line of sight.
Action: Engage the closest hero.

Master bandit
Action: Engage the closest hero with a Search card.
Action: Use "Pillage" on the adjacent hero with the most Search cards.
Action: Attack the closest hero in line of sight.
Action: Engage the closest hero.

This action list ensures that a bandit that engaged a hero actually either uses Pillage or performs a ranged attack if possible. With the action list posted in the OP it would have been possible that a bandit engages and then engages again although performing a ranged attack would be much better. My interpretation posted above was based on this assumption. After looking at the correct action list, I am revising my statement above and agree with any2card's interpretation:

When multiple heroes have an equal number of search cards (including zero), players decide which of those heroes is targeted by actions or effects that include the phrase "most Search cards".

Edited by Sadgit

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The question wasn't about a specific monster action (Bandits are not the only monster which triggers an Search cards). I used this example for some points:

1. Is zero a vailid condition to trigger an action?
Yes

2. What if more than one hero have most e.g. search cards, shop cards, damage ... ?
Players decide

3. What if 1 & 2 occures combined?
Action triggers and players decide

Edited by Toadie1981

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The bandits indeed do not include this kind of behavior, there are some activations though:
 

Quote

Hellhounds:

Activation:
Action: Engage the hero within 3 spaces of this monster with the most faceup Search cards.
Action: Engage the closest hero.
Action: Attack the adjacent hero with the most faceup Search cards. Then retreat.
Action: If adjacent to a hero, perform a move action and retreat.

Quote

Raythen:

Effect:
The hero with the most faceup Search cards immediately tests [WIL]. If he fails, he immediately discards 1 random faceup Search card or suffers [FTG] equal to his Stamina.

Quote

Skarn:

Effect:
Immediately remove Skarn from the map and place him adjacent to the hero with the most Search cards.

Activation:
Action: Attack the adjacent heroes with the most Search cards.
Action:  Perform a move action and retreat.

I'm not sure how to treat these, if no hero has a search card.

In case of the Hellhounds, there are no faceup search cards, so I would skip this step. I'd also do this, if all of the heroes only have facedown search cards.

In case of Skarn you could make an argument, that 0 search cards might count as the most, but I'd skip this step and let him retreat 2 times.

Edited by DerDelphi

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I guess someone should submit a clarifying question to FFG.

I still submit that in all the examples posted above, "most" can still be 0 (or 1, or 2 if all heroes have the same value).

It will be interesting to see what FFG says.

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6 hours ago, Toadie1981 said:

2. What if more than one hero have most e.g. search cards, shop cards, damage ... ?
Players decide

 

But before this you also should check range.

Rulebook;pt 8:" if there is a tie when selecting the target, select the closest target. If there is still a tie, the player are free to choose..."

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On 22.3.2017 at 2:25 PM, any2cards said:

It will be interesting to see what FFG says.

Q: Hi FFG, i have got some questions regarding the RTL rules and the intend of the monster activiations:

1a) Monster action:

"Engage the hero with the MOST search cards." - All four heroes have 0 (!) search cards.

1b) Monster action:

"Engage as many heroes as possible within 6 spaces". There are 0 heroes within 6 spaces.

 

Would this actions be skipped ? Does "most" and "as many" include zero ?

2) Monster action:

"Attack the hero within 3 spaces with the lowest speed". - The hero with the lowest speed is not in line of sight. Whould this action be skipped (and so perhaps no hero will be attacked) or whould another hero within 3 spaces and the second lowest speed be attacked ? 

A:

1a) In this case, the monster would engage the closest hero given that all heroes are tied at 0.
1b) Yes, the action would be skipped.
Most does include 0, but 0 does not count as “as many as possible.”
2) On page 10 of the RtL rulebook it reads, "When selecting a target for an action that requires line of sight, do not select targets that are not in line of sight—they are ignored and a different target is chosen. For example, if an action instructs a monster to attack the closest hero, but the closest hero is not in line of sight, the target that should be selected would be the next closest hero who is in line of sight.”
 
Thanks!
 
Nathan Hajek

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For my 2 cents;

From a thematic point of view,  the monsters are drawn by the lure of the heroes' possessions.

If no heroes have any possessions, there is nothing to attract the monsters so they then ignore that condition.

"Zero is a number" seems like rules lawyering to me.

Edited by player2884311
typo

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