Underachiever599

Should Inquisitors be a bit tougher?

21 posts in this topic

I finally got my Force and Destiny core book and was a bit disappointed by the rules for making an Inquisitor. The health seemed okay, as did the attributes. Skills seem somewhat limited, but the same is true for all adversaries.

What I was really disappointed by was the limited number of talents and the Force options. Only two? So they don't get to have parry, reflect, and improved reflect? And Inquisitors can use Unleash, but not Bind, even though Bind is the power we see them use the most in Rebels? 

I understand these aren't set in stone, and I can (and will) houserule some things. I'm only bringing this all up because it just doesn't make sense to me from a design standpoint. What do you guys think? Are Inquisitors fine as is, or should they get more talents?

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Inquisitors are like other adversaries, in that you build them the way you want.  The base Inquisitor rules are just that - for BASE-level inquisitors.  Add as many other talents/skill ranks as you wish to make the Inquisitor that gives your players nightmares. :)

Tear44, whafrog, GroggyGolem and 1 other like this

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I agree that they should get more than two talents.

My tendency with Nemesis-level Force-using NPCs is to settle on a small handful of talents and Force powers they'll use to start out, and then add more on the fly.  So if a situation comes up in the fight where it would be cool for the inquisitor to use Bind, I decide then and there that she has Bind.

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6 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

My tendency with Nemesis-level Force-using NPCs is to settle on a small handful of talents and Force powers they'll use to start out, and then add more on the fly.  So if a situation comes up in the fight where it would be cool for the inquisitor to use Bind, I decide then and there that she has Bind.

I think this could work to a point, but I would be careful about introducing too many "new" options DURING the fight.  Sometimes, the wrong Inquisitor got the job assigned to them, and the PCs should be able to take advantage of that.  If only to make the fight with the RIGHT Inquisitor that much more terrifying. :)

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2 hours ago, Underachiever599 said:

I finally got my Force and Destiny core book and was a bit disappointed by the rules for making an Inquisitor. The health seemed okay, as did the attributes. Skills seem somewhat limited, but the same is true for all adversaries.

What I was really disappointed by was the limited number of talents and the Force options. Only two? So they don't get to have parry, reflect, and improved reflect? And Inquisitors can use Unleash, but not Bind, even though Bind is the power we see them use the most in Rebels? 

I understand these aren't set in stone, and I can (and will) houserule some things. I'm only bringing this all up because it just doesn't make sense to me from a design standpoint. What do you guys think? Are Inquisitors fine as is, or should they get more talents?

The template is a foundation inquisitior. A basic one that can be a serious threat to a group of starting characters, while still leaving exploitable weaknesses.

If you really need someone more powerful, beef him up.

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In one of the games I am a part of, we've had Inquisitors who can solo the entire party in brutally efficient form. 

 

We're also over 1000 exp now. There's currently a set of Inquisitors running around who each have a specialization - the "Paladin" is more defensive than the Soresu Guardian PC and hits a lot harder. 

 

Basically, they're are strong as you want them to be. And they can be terrifyingly strong. 

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I always thought of the Inquisitor system more like you make a player character with the Inquisitor options added on top to make your games ultimate nemesis. The most dangerous inquisitors you can make aren't ones you fight face to face though, it's so much worse to go up against an enemy who uses stuff like like Influence and Misdirect to turn all their allies against them, and Battle Meditation to make everything they fight that much tougher, all while the Inquisitor never shows themselves. 

Edited by Aetrion
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The Inquisitor I'm making for our group I want to be a challenge for some time to come so I'm building him by the template until all the characteristics and skills are in then I'm giving him full access to the Shadow, Shien, Shii-Cho, and Niman trees as well as the full force powers of Heal/Harm, Misdirect, Move, Protect/Unleash, and Sense. 

Needless to say, he will be a very longer term Nemeses. I'm going to mostly have him show up, exchange a few blows then retreat. I want him to be a very real but elusive threat.

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While it's easy to think of them as a CRPG-style 'boss' that is at least as powerful as an entire party of characters put together, inquisitors don't really work well that way and this is generally true of nemesis characters across the board (and equivalents in similar tabletop systems). That said, inquisitors don't *need* to work that way and they aren't really themed to do so: while their personal skills are certainly well above that of the typical opponent, they're not standalone individuals; an inquisitor has the backing and access to the resources of the empire and should use them accordingly - they don't show up on their own, they show up in command of whatever force of underlings they deem necessary to deal with the threat (at least as they estimate it - they might sometimes get that wrong).

This is also a reason to keep their design relatively straightforward. All of that support is going to take time and attention to run, especially in a combat scene, so a complicated inquisitor loaded with talents is going to become more of a burden than a benefit.

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The "build an Inquisitor" rules in the book will give you a decent Nemesis that can threaten a party of starting PCs, especially if you go the Rebels route and give them a double-bladed lightsaber.  Adversary 3 makes for a fairly daunting difficulty for PCs that haven't hit Knight Level or haven't put at least 3 ranks into their primary combat skill, and the suggested armor gives them a point of melee and ranged defense for some added difficulty.  Having 4 ranks in Lightsaber ensures they're going to hit with advantage far more often than not, which gets nasty if using a double-bladed lightsaber as that means two hits with the Breach 1 quality, which is going to wreck most PCs, especially those of the starting variety, either by burning through their wounds in a hurry, or putting a dent in their strain threshold if the PC has ranks in Parry.

To be honest, if you've got a party where more than two PCs are wielding proper lightsabers, then you'll need to ensure that your Inquisitor has the Parry talent.  Personally, what I do when using those rules is automatically assign them 3 ranks each of Parry and Reflect for free, as this protects them from lightsabers as well as weapons in the Ranged (Heavy) or Gunnery category, especially if they've not got a high Brawn score.  If I want them to have more ranks, then I count that as one of their talent selections and up the ranks by 2.

Now the thing with Inquisitors is that they often have very high wound and strain thresholds (low 20's), meaning they can take quite a beating (far more than most PCs) and have plenty of strain to do things like use Parry/Reflect and taking additional maneuvers.  So bear this in mind if you've got a party that's only using blaster pistols, as it's going to take a while for that party to seriously injure an Inquisitor, especially if they've got the Reflect talent.

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"Listen to me carefully.  You see an Inquisitor?  You do what we do.  RUN!!!!!"

Yeah, Inquisitors are all custom Nemesis level adversaries and each should be a custom build.

Our GM uses the Adversary Talent liberally and we've faced off against two Inquisitors in a single fight.  I was amazed that our group of 8 was having as much trouble taking down these two guys.  There were also four dark troopers involved too but the troopers acted more like a buffer as the Inquisitors devastated our group with force powers.

But yeah, a single Inquisitor should be able to terrify a group of PC's.

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I went and built my concept of what an Inquisitor "should be" last night, based on the media I am familiar with, using PC Character Creation rules - which I would not "usually" use chargen rules to create NPCs, but just as a thought exercise,

It took about 1,200 XP to hit the low end of that conception.

The Adversary Talent is a huge boost (since it's essentially ranks in the Dodge -or similar- Talent that don't cost Strain to use) and I would not apply it to a "XP built" Inquisitor, but the important thing IMO is that your Inquisitor can do 2 or 3 "Signature Things" you need it to do to achieve your desired dramatic/combat effect, not what the book says is Inquisitor stats.

It really made me want to play a PC in that XP range...

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One of the things to consider when building an Inquisitor is that there is always a reason for the Inquisitor to be there and that reason us usually the party or someone in that party. This means you can feel free to build that inquisitor especially around the needs for the job, give him sufficient intel on his targets, make him a proffessional at his job. And his job is hunting down force sensitives which started to become trouble for the empire.

Basically this means an Inquisitor should always have the advantage unless the PCs change the game. If just one is send for the task than his superiors will be pretty sure that he can deal with it and when several inquisitors at once show up that this should be the number they need to have a pretty big advantage against the group, either by skills, numbers or by the way the trap they decided to use works. Whatever the case, they have a plan which has a good chance of success. 

So the trick for the encounter design is to leave options open for the players to change the base conditions. They could recruit allies who tip the balance, they could train themselves in ways which counter the powers of their nemesis, they could build a trap themselves to lure the inquisitor in, whatever it is, it needs the players to change the game and take the control over the encounter away from the inquisitor(s). So keep as well options open to run away for your players when the players fail at changing the circumstances. 

The stats of an Inquisitor should always counter the abilities of those whom they hunt, so feel free to boost them to whatever power level you need them. Just don't overdo it with single inquisitors, there is no point in having a force rating 7 mega inquisitor who rivals Mauls in power. Inquisitors are agents of the Sith, not Sith themselves and they would get killed if they ever show the potential to become a rival. So instead of increasing the power of a single inquisitor it is often smarter to increase their numbers up to the point when they are sufficient strong to deal with the party.  Nothing wrong with sending 4 Inquisitors after the party if that party starts to become powerful enough.  

Edited by SEApocalypse
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I create all my inquisitors custom. I take a pretty straight forward approach to keep things simple. I use Oggdude's GM Tools to create an npc and then create a statblock, save it to my Dropbox so I can access it on my phone when I run games.

Anywho back to the inquisitor builds.

Typically I give them wounds and strain  like the book suggests. From there I customize their characteristics and skill ranks based upon the back story I come up with them, so some are more skilled at saber combat while others are better at stealth or deception. They all have at least a couple ranks in adversary and the parry/reflect & improved parry/improved reflect talents. Usually 3 ranks of parry/reflect at the lowest. For force rating, I prefer 3. For force powers, I find it easiest to just say they have whatever power(s) along with their talents in a special abilities entry. It works better that way. Then I just act as if they have all the upgrades to said powers, rather than creating the largest stat block ever.

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Still planning out my campaign, and I will echo most of what other people have said, with a caveat:

Inquisitors are not fully trained Jedi or Sith (for the most part).  While having an honest to goodness fallen Jedi as an inquisitor can make for an a great "final" boss for the campaign (also opening up redemption as an option rather than "hit it until it falls down"), most of them will be trained very specifically with some glaring deficiencies in their abilities or training. Palpatine already has to watch his back around Vader in true Sith style, why would he want to have other highly or fully trained threats all hanging out?  That unstoppable assassin with enhance and move?  He has a lower willpower and discipline.  Sure, he will carve you up like a thanksgiving turkey, but careful use of other tactics will tip the scales in your favor.  Same thing for master manipulator who is garbage in a straight fight or the ace pilot in his prototype TIE Defender who is worthless out of the cockpit.

Except in a few scenarios, an Inquisitor should have one of those weaknesses to exploit.  Then again, my group once turned an entire D&D campaign into a quest to find a demon lord's true name to avoid having to fight him, and they love non-combat solutions and play as much or more than fighting, so YMMV.

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Thanks for all the replies, everyone! This is my first time ever running a campaign, and I'm pretty inexperienced at all of this. There's been a lot of good points brought up and ideas shared, and I do appreciate how supportive this community is. You guys rock!

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3 hours ago, FatherTurin said:

Still planning out my campaign, and I will echo most of what other people have said, with a caveat:

Inquisitors are not fully trained Jedi or Sith (for the most part).  While having an honest to goodness fallen Jedi as an inquisitor can make for an a great "final" boss for the campaign (also opening up redemption as an option rather than "hit it until it falls down"), most of them will be trained very specifically with some glaring deficiencies in their abilities or training. Palpatine already has to watch his back around Vader in true Sith style, why would he want to have other highly or fully trained threats all hanging out?  That unstoppable assassin with enhance and move?  He has a lower willpower and discipline.  Sure, he will carve you up like a thanksgiving turkey, but careful use of other tactics will tip the scales in your favor.  Same thing for master manipulator who is garbage in a straight fight or the ace pilot in his prototype TIE Defender who is worthless out of the cockpit.

Except in a few scenarios, an Inquisitor should have one of those weaknesses to exploit.  Then again, my group once turned an entire D&D campaign into a quest to find a demon lord's true name to avoid having to fight him, and they love non-combat solutions and play as much or more than fighting, so YMMV.

 

I just wanted to tack on an existing example.  Though she wasn't technically an Inquisitor (even if her function was similar) Asajj Ventress was ultimately betrayed because she advanced from knowing how to use her sabers with a few force powers, to making Darth Sidious question whether or not Dooku was going to make problems with his apprentice.  Similar happened in the first Force Unleashed game.  I think if an inquisitor is getting close to Sith levels, even a moderately powerful Sith, then their days are numbered by the real Sith Lords they're serving.

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1 hour ago, Kazimir said:

I just wanted to tack on an existing example.  Though she wasn't technically an Inquisitor (even if her function was similar) Asajj Ventress was ultimately betrayed because she advanced from knowing how to use her sabers with a few force powers, to making Darth Sidious question whether or not Dooku was going to make problems with his apprentice.  Similar happened in the first Force Unleashed game.  I think if an inquisitor is getting close to Sith levels, even a moderately powerful Sith, then their days are numbered by the real Sith Lords they're serving.

Good point.

In the WotC OCR supplement Dark Side Sourcebook, when discussing the Inquisitor prestige class, it noted that being an Inquisitor was akin to walking a very thin tightrope, with a single misstep leading to the Inquisitor's doom; they had to prove that they were capable enough to warrant their rank and status within the Empire, but not so capable that they could be seen as a threat to either of the ruling Sith.  There was even an anecdote about how at any time, an Inquisitor could be summoned to a personal meeting with the Emperor, but never be sure if said meeting was to congratulate the Inquisitor on a job well done, or to arrange for the Inquisitor's "forced early retirement."

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This just popped its head up for me. I'm starting a new Rebellion-era campaign in about two weeks, and we'll be kicking off with 'Perlemian Haul', and then my conversion of the old WEG 'Planet of the Mists'. One of the bad guys in PotM is a "Dark Side adept", supposedly trained by Vader. It always stretched my suspension of disbelief that one of Vader's favourites would end up commanding a mining station in the middle of nowhere. So I've switched it around a bit (in light of Rogue One) to suggest that hyperbaride-precursor rich planets are often rich in kyber crystals. As such, the Emperor has dispatched an Inquisitor there under the cover of an Imperial administrator, in order to determine if there are actually kyber crystals on Marca (the planet on which the adventure takes place).

Anyway, I have three PCs being brought in from a couple of short, "trial" games, each with about 60 xp. Two of them are Force-sensitive, though one is unaware of this. The one who is aware does have a lightsabre, but has no real idea how to use it, and has only used the Force to enhance some abilities so far. I ended up rebuilding the Inquisitor extensively, because he was a bit too much in combat, and a bit too little in Force use. 

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