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Remove secondary weapon range rule from turrets?

56 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

12 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

If only you'd spent the time reading the OP that you spent on that witty retort.

And if only you could make a point without being so condescending.

Besides, one could infer that the OP means special weapons or upgrades that allow a ship to fire outside its primary firing arc, such as the Outrider title.

Edited by StriderZessei

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Posted (edited)

51 minutes ago, ThalanirIII said:

Pointless, ineffective, and salt-inspired. Not liking quad TLT is no reason to ban them. 

You're clueless. Now let the adults talk.

Edited by DagobahDave

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If any TLT Nerf is going to exist I expect it to be on Miranda, so when she uses her ability it effects both shots. So regen a shield and only get 2 two dice attacks, but spend a shield and get 2 four dice attacks. Much more thematic that way too. 

And flying against 4 TLTs? Just rush them fast. I haven't ever lost to 4 TLTs (hoping the LWF tie agressor doesn't change that...)

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1 hour ago, ThalanirIII said:

 

Autoblaster cannon already does that, and it's not broken; it might be better to have a range 3 bonus only - something like "when defending against a secondary weapon at range 3, increase green dice by 1" (or just 'add range bonus'). That said, nerfing secondary weapons at range 3 is not very good for torpedoes/missiles; something might have to be done there.

True on the autoblaster cannon, but it is also arc locked and costs 3 more points. 

I think we can just target turrets with the R3 only clause. Torps and missiles kinda make sense to have no range bonuses, so I'd say leave 'em be.

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I don't mind TLT's.. I just don't like TLT on a Ghost with Kanan when I have to shoot Biggs first lol

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If you want such a specific nerf to the TLT perhaps they should ban/severely nerf Autothrusters while they are it.

Maybe we should play a game where if 10 people say a card it "broken" all copies of that card are to immediately be destroyed.  How long will it be before all the cards in this game are gone?

 

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Instead of nerfing TLTs, give ships a way to counter them. LWF is awesome, unfortunately they limited it to TIE only. Something like this for 2 agi ships or lower vs secondary weapons only for 1pt mod could work.

Defensive Weapon System

Modification - 1pt

"When defending against a secondary weapon, if the total attack dice rolled is greater than total defense dice rolled, roll 1 extra defense die. You cannot equip this if your agility is 3 or higher."

Like a weaker LWF that gives defense to ships like Xwings, Khiraxz, and just about anything you want protection from TLT and Missile strikes. Yes it takes the mod slot, so you have to make a decision over IA or this, or Vector Thrusters or this. But in many situations, this can come in handy for a single point, like on U-wings and such.

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35 minutes ago, wurms said:

Instead of nerfing TLTs, give ships a way to counter them. LWF is awesome, unfortunately they limited it to TIE only. Something like this for 2 agi ships or lower vs secondary weapons only for 1pt mod could work.

Defensive Weapon System

Modification - 1pt

"When defending against a secondary weapon, if the total attack dice rolled is greater than total defense dice rolled, roll 1 extra defense die. You cannot equip this if your agility is 3 or higher."

Like a weaker LWF that gives defense to ships like Xwings, Khiraxz, and just about anything you want protection from TLT and Missile strikes. Yes it takes the mod slot, so you have to make a decision over IA or this, or Vector Thrusters or this. But in many situations, this can come in handy for a single point, like on U-wings and such.

You would need to limit it to small ships, or else it would completely delete countermeasures from the game.

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, thepicto said:

What if TLT only gets the second shot if the first misses? Halves it's damage output.

6 points for an upgrade that can at most do 1 point of damage?

Edited by benskywalker
ninja'd
ForceM, SabineKey and StriderZessei like this

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2 hours ago, StevenO said:

If you want such a specific nerf to the TLT perhaps they should ban/severely nerf Autothrusters while they are it.

Maybe we should play a game where if 10 people say a card it "broken" all copies of that card are to immediately be destroyed.  How long will it be before all the cards in this game are gone?

 

Well, never. We'd still have Expose and R3 astro for sure.

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I agree with this idea, but also think it should apply to cannons -- neither cannons or lasers have guidance system, unlike torpedoes and missiles.

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1 hour ago, Hawkstrike said:

... neither cannons or lasers have guidance system, unlike torpedoes and missiles.

And what about these?:

swx66-unguided-rockets.png

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7 hours ago, DailyRich said:

Don't like TLT?  Get into Range 1 out of their arc and blow the ever-loving hell out of the them.  The highest agility you're dealing with is 2, and only one carrier is a PWT.

Ghost + Ys.

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4 hours ago, StevenO said:

If you want such a specific nerf to the TLT perhaps they should ban/severely nerf Autothrusters while they are it.

Maybe we should play a game where if 10 people say a card it "broken" all copies of that card are to immediately be destroyed.  How long will it be before all the cards in this game are gone?

 

Two weeks, tops. 

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Posted (edited)

I don't think TLT needs any changes or nerfs.

Indeed, it is a top choice for the K-Wing, Y-Wing, HWK and Ghost. Y-Wing and HWK are quite reliant on the turret to be somewhat effective. The K and Ghost have some other possibilities, but their top builds need TLT to be competitive.

I see absolutely no reason to nerf Kanan or Miranda out of the meta because that's what you will achieve.

We see these ships from time to time in the top spots, yes. But they are not dominating the meta by any means nor are they impossible to counter. There were counters to 4YTLT back when it came out, and there are more available today.

When i ranted about Kylo showing me the dark side, I was told to stop whining and try to counter the list. Which was probably right because i took a swarm and flattened a ton of Kylo lists in local meta.

TLT lists of any sort were a rare sight until the big nerfing. They now start to make a comeback, but if people have not forgot how to counter them they should not really become an issue at all.

TLT is a good card, sure, but i think it's really nothing more than simply good. Like a lot of other cards are...

Edited by ForceM
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I'd remove an AD from the TLT myself. Kanaan with Acc Corrector sees no change in his killing power, it's stil capable of killing low evade dice ships like before, but it's not so efficient at it that B-Wings and G1-A's effectively no longer exist.

Rebels can still play TLT-K-Wings loaded down with bombs and it'll still work fine. Sure B-Wings will still need to worry about Kylo, but that's what the Stresshog is all about. He doesn't care how many dice those turrets are rolling as long as it nets him the ability to offload 2 stress at range 3 on a TIE Shuttle or an Upsilon.

 

It also means that they're less reliable at taking down 2 Evade ships like the X-Wings and others, which improves them as well. Well, T-70's anyhow.

 

To be honest, the whole way the TLT works feels very odd, and I wonder how many revisions and rewrites occured before we got the card that we got. Maybe originally it was supposed to be a 3 dice attack that worked like Assault Missiles under certain criteria (Unsaved crits?) to represent it spraying an area with BRRRRRT? Or maybe we can see parts of it in the Arc Caster, a Turret that would hit and then do 1 extra damage to a nearby target.

Heck, maybe it was supposed to work like Baze Malbus, but they realise just how crazy that would be when paired up with A2.

 

But what do I know.

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15 hours ago, Clancampbell said:

All though I have gotten used to it, it always struck me as odd that you'd get an extra defense die at range 3 from primary weapons, but not secondary weapons. Distance is distance.

Well I could understand <missile> and <torpedo> weapons as they were somewhat guided, however for simplicity sake it extended to all secondary weapons which includes <turret> <cannon> <hardpoint> also secondary weapons in upgrade slots not intended to be secondary weapons such as <illicit> and <elite> slots as well. So now to add in a subset of secondary weapons that do and don't give range bonuses could cause issues down the line not to mention bend a few other upgrades and secondary weapons as well. Like dorsal turret now rolling 4 dice at range 1.

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14 hours ago, Sir13scott said:

If any TLT Nerf is going to exist I expect it to be on Miranda, so when she uses her ability it effects both shots. So regen a shield and only get 2 two dice attacks, but spend a shield and get 2 four dice attacks. Much more thematic that way too. 

And flying against 4 TLTs? Just rush them fast. I haven't ever lost to 4 TLTs (hoping the LWF tie agressor doesn't change that...)

I'd prefer if they made Mira's ability primary weapon only TBH.  Stuff her being able to use TLT with it at all.

I'd like to see a TLT nerf to the effect of blocking the second shot unless you meet some condition - e.g. having a TL on the target.  So you can get the double shot but it'll usually cost you an action to do so.  Or blocking it unless the target is in arc, though that breaks Kavil's ability to use TLT effectively and probably consigns him to the dustbin again.

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