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Vitalis

JK5M nerfs - analysis (no im not whining here )

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Posted (edited)

So it struck me yesterday: JM5k has been nerfed over  and over and over again.. and this ship is still off the bat with its performance.

I agree that bumping its cost is bad idea, due to someone finding himself with 100+ squad suddenly on a tournament but there is another simple way. Sooo lets see  what has been nerfed due to JM5k:

1. Agromech. Totally unnessesary.  Torpedo Y-wings could see some love out of this one. But really - not that impactful on anything else then JM5k.

2. Deadeye. I myself am disappointed by this one. I loved playing Deadeye+Concussion+GC+Recon Mercenary in Firespray. Killed many fun builds.

3. Manaroo nerf. Again why nerf that? Cause with attani she was op. Herself she made really nice builds possible. Maybe Dengaroo was a little canerous but hey you could fly around that especially now with the zuckus change that list could evolve into something interesting.

See a pattern alredy? All those nerfs were related with EPT slot on cheap pilots.  Also PS4 pilto with both ability and EPT? That is pretty uncommon.

Now lets add it up:

- all issues were related to  EPT

-they are to cheap to the statline and upgrade slots

-pilots that were issue all have EPT

 

So now why on earth they simply did not remove EPT from both Scout and Manaroo? They already admitted JM5k has design flaws (3 nerfs is pretty good admission) so none would be bothered by 1 change. Would attani-uboats be alive in this scenario? I guess yes. You still can take K4, plus old manaroo still looks like 2 torpedos fired, so its not that im whining after yesterdays SoS. Im just sad they killed so much stuff on the way while the problem they adressed somehow eluded them.

So basically instead of removing problematic slot from 2 pilots they killed multiple other interesting builds. 

Mission failed FFG, mission failed.

Edited by Vitalis

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I'd've preferred to see the Scout lose the EPT or get bumped up at least 2 points in cost, and Manaroo get bumped up by a point or two in cost as well.  Mana not being able to get Mindlink would seema  little wonky fluff-wise as it's her race and her tech - but I could live with the justification that mindlink is her pilot ability instead.

I'd also like to have seen the Salvaged Astro slot be attached to the title.  IIRC fluff-wise it was a mod that Dengar put on the Punishing One to control the improved turret, it wasn't a standard part of the ship chassis.

Kanawolf and nitrobenz like this

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I'm pretty disappointed in FFG as far as the JM5K and related nerfs, as well. Could've increased points across the board (esp. the Scout) and left Deadeye and Manaroo alone (or at least only pulled Manaroo back to Range 1-3), but nooooooooo.

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1 minute ago, Panzeh said:

Time to make the contracted scout as worthless as the other generic pwts.

I mean... even if you took its EPT off, it's still 2 points cheaper than the cheapest 2-PWT large base generic, and it has a wildly better dial, actions, and set of upgrade slots.

Holmelund, Schu81, ForceM and 2 others like this

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In part even Zuckuss is a Jumpmaster victim.

Zuckuss on a Hwk - did that ever got fielded?

Zuckuss on a Quadjumper - probably not a problem, these things are slow, weak offense.

Zuckuss on a Scurrg, too early to say, we do not know the dial yet.

Zuckuss on a G1A - no problem (dial).

Zuckuss on a party buss - no problem, cause if you get on the tail of the partybuss, game over

Zuckuss on a Lancer - do not know, do not own the ship.

Zuckuss on a JM5 - definitely a problem, cause dial!

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Zuckuss was not busted because of jm5k, he was busted because of manaroo.  Its not the dial that did it so much as the easy way to feed tokens to dengar.

ElGentleman likes this

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I think they should have yanked the scouts ept instead of nerfing deadeye. 

Manaroo should be r1-2 Nerf, just enough to keep lone wolf from working in Dengaroo. And it forces Paratanni to fly differently, so it could work.

Kanawolf and SabineKey like this

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I....am one the fews that it's fine with the generic EPT. To me, the Jumpmaster had to be the best BLOCKER in the game, not the best torpedo carrier. 

There's a lot of artcles/mention about the Jmaster as a bumper. Heaver says it too.

The problem is when this magnific bumper (b-roll+dial) will punch you with full modified torpedoes! 

 

Scout w/mindlink+IA, mindlink+Boshek, or adaptability, fearlessness etc are all fun and competitive builds. 

Then there's those damned torpedoes...

ThalanirIII and Ailowynn like this

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35 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Zuckuss on a Hwk - did that ever got fielded?

I fact i did , more than once :D

 

My point here was that all torpedo issues were related to EPT slot on Scout. No need to kill ANYTHING else if we cut this one....

Managarmr, SabineKey and Boreas Mun like this

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14 minutes ago, Vitalis said:

I fact i did , more than once :D

 

My point here was that all torpedo issues were related to EPT slot on Scout. No need to kill ANYTHING else if we cut this one....

I mean you can make it a pretty crappy torp boat to bring it in line with the others.

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39 minutes ago, Talamare said:

I think the designers are slacking. Zuckuss and Manaroo should never have been released without any limitations. 

IMO the year simply had too many releases to spend enough time testing.  The JM5K definitely did not get enough time on the table to shake it down thoroughly.  Hoping they slow down a bit to improve QC.

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16 minutes ago, Panzeh said:

I mean you can make it a pretty crappy torp boat to bring it in line with the others.

If everything is ****, nothing is.

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Does everything need a nerf?  Just because it wins a tournament doesn't necessarily mean it's dominant.  I think folks should wait and see the next few regionals to see if it's dominant or if the meta is diverse or not.

 

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2 hours ago, Vitalis said:

So it struck me yesterday: JM5k has been nerfed over  and over and over again.. and this ship is still off the bat with its performance.

I agree that bumping its cost is bad idea, due to someone finding himself with 100+ squad suddenly on a tournament but there is another simple way. Sooo lets see  what has been nerfed due to JM5k:

1. Agromech. Totally unnessesary.  Torpedo Y-wings could see some love out of this one. But really - not that impactful on anything else then JM5k.

 

Now, to be fair, with the R4 agromech it was actually grandfathered in with the new (blue) core set. Under the new rules the R4 interaction couldn't work, but they allowed it to stay that way. They finally fixed it when it became an issue with Scorpedos

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Next FFG FAQ: "Jumpmaster has been removed from the game". That should fix all problems with that ship... :D

 

Seriously though, I don't find the ship that broken. And yes, I have played with, and against it, multiple times. If you up the cost, then it becomes overcosted, because a JM5K needs upgraded to function. If anyone thinks that it does not need upgrades, try running 4 of them with no upgrades whatsoever in any serious tournament. I think that the ship is good as is. Dengaroo, Zuckuss and U-boats (the classic build) are dead and Manaroo needs to be in the fight now to function properly. You are only left with Mindlinked scouts, which, while very strong, you can work around them much easier since they need to grab TLs to fire off their torps.

Artjunkie likes this

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10 minutes ago, fok12 said:

Next FFG FAQ: "Jumpmaster has been removed from the game". That should fix all problems with that ship... :D

 

Seriously though, I don't find the ship that broken. And yes, I have played with, and against it, multiple times. If you up the cost, then it becomes overcosted, because a JM5K needs upgraded to function. If anyone thinks that it does not need upgrades, try running 4 of them with no upgrades whatsoever in any serious tournament. I think that the ship is good as is. Dengaroo, Zuckuss and U-boats (the classic build) are dead and Manaroo needs to be in the fight now to function properly. You are only left with Mindlinked scouts, which, while very strong, you can work around them much easier since they need to grab TLs to fire off their torps.

I dunno, 4 of them with Trick Shot probably wouldn't be terrible.  that's a lot of HP and a decent chunk of defence dice and an exception amount of blocking.  Trouble is the lack of red dice.

Nobody said that naked jumpmasters were overpowered.  They said that jumpmasters are under-costed or over-slotted.

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