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sludrick

Outrider title question

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If I have a large base ship that occupies both range 1 and 2 can it be targeted by the outrider with heavy laser cannon?  I wasn't sure if any part of me being at range 1 canceled his ability to target me

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10 hours ago, Innese said:

Range is measured closest-to-closest in this case, so he would be considered range 1

FTFY

@sludrick, range is always closest-to-closest. The only wrinkle, and I think that's what @Innese is getting at here, is that if you're measuring the range of an attack you measure from the attacker to the closest point on the defender that's in arc, unless the attack is allowed to target ships outside your firing arc, in which case you just pick the actual closest point, same as if you were measuring the range between two ships for a non-attack effect.

So for an arc-limited attack it's entirely possible for a ship to be at Range 2, but the attack is at Range 3 because your arc only tags the back corner of the ship.

But the original question was about a Heavy Leaser Cannon attack from the Outrider, which is not limited to firing arc and therefore measures Range independent of arc.

And you can't say "Well, the back of that ship is at Range 2, so I can use my (Heavy Laser Cannon|Proton Torpedoes|Advanced Homing Missiles|Twin Laser Turret|...)" any more than you can say "Well, the back of that ship is at Range 2, so I can apply Tactician".

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13 hours ago, digitalbusker said:

FTFY

@sludrick, range is always closest-to-closest. The only wrinkle, and I think that's what @Innese is getting at here, is that if you're measuring the range of an attack you measure from the attacker to the closest point on the defender that's in arc, unless the attack is allowed to target ships outside your firing arc, in which case you just pick the actual closest point, same as if you were measuring the range between two ships for a non-attack effect.

So for an arc-limited attack it's entirely possible for a ship to be at Range 2, but the attack is at Range 3 because your arc only tags the back corner of the ship.

But the original question was about a Heavy Leaser Cannon attack from the Outrider, which is not limited to firing arc and therefore measures Range independent of arc.

And you can't say "Well, the back of that ship is at Range 2, so I can use my (Heavy Laser Cannon|Proton Torpedoes|Advanced Homing Missiles|Twin Laser Turret|...)" any more than you can say "Well, the back of that ship is at Range 2, so I can apply Tactician".

Outrider title says you "may". He could decline to use the title locking himself into his primary arc on the hlc then call it range two if no part is in arc at range 1. 

 

EDIT: Ignore me, this is wrong

Edited by Smitty
I'm dumb lol

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16 minutes ago, Smitty said:

Outrider title says you "may". He could decline to use the title locking himself into his primary arc on the hlc then call it range two if no part is in arc at range 1. 

No he can't. 

Quote

RANGE, page 16, (second bullet point)

If attacking with a turret primary weapon or a secondary weapon that may target a ship outside the attacker’s firing arc, the attacker must measure to the closest point of the target ship even if that point is outside its firing arc.

 

Edited by Parravon

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53 minutes ago, Smitty said:

Outrider title says you "may". He could decline to use the title locking himself into his primary arc on the hlc then call it range two if no part is in arc at range 1. 

That is a "may" as in this is something you normally can not do and NOT "may" as in something that you can choose to ignore.

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12 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

I think Smitty was referring to omitting the title but eqiping the HLC. Similar to the cannon armed B25 of WWII. Front arc only and use the primary weapon to cover the rest of the 360°.

No, he was definitely referring to making the use of the title optional once it's equipped. But it's not an option to not use the title once it's equipped, just to avoid targeting something in Range 1.

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4 minutes ago, Parravon said:

No, he was definitely referring to making the use of the title optional once it's equipped. But it's not an option to not use the title once it's equipped, just to avoid targeting something in Range 1.

You are correct on both points; that is what I meant, and I was also incorrect. I responded without really thinking that through fully. I saw the may and thought a clever rules lawyering could make that be optional. However upon thinking it through a bit more, ya all the the title is doing is granting your cannon the status of have the may shoot 360. I saw the word may as making every word after it on the title card something I can choose to ignore, however I realize now its not an effect that each time i try to fire HLC i say i'm activating the outrider title to grant my HLC the 360 shooting ability; it's just while equipped my HLC has that ability of may shoot 360 just like any other turret has the may shoot 360. The only may about it is I may also shoot inside arc (as in may = possible, not may = permission); in which case the FAQ tells us measure closest to closest not in arc. 

 

tl;dr = I goofed

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24 minutes ago, sludrick said:

Thanks to everyone , I should have figured my ship was safe but I questioned it and so did my opponent, i feel like a newb

It's better to ask the question and find out how it's played correctly, than to carry on incorrectly. 

We were all newbs at some stage. :)

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This doesn't exactly apply to your situation but it is very helpful. Check out the diagram on page 5 of the FAQ titled Inside Firing Arc at Range X Example. Read the explanation as many times as you need and try to really understand all of what it says. If you do it will help you figure out a LOT of range measuring situations. 

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