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Shecian

The Future of 2nd Edition

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Yeah, that's my guess too -- Descent is clearly still selling, but it seems like they have shifted the design teams over to licensed stuff like the Star Wars descent clone game, etc. 

 

Personally I'd just like the remaining D1 heroes ported over in an app friendly expansion for newer players (I don't have the first edition and don't want to buy the conversion kit since it doesn't work with the app, but would still like heroes like Red Scorpion etc). And I'd like to see more app campaigns developed. There's a bunch of content released though so hard to complain just because there isn't more.

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My only question is will they continue to reprint the physical stuff that they have released for the game so far?  Earlier expansions seem sold out pretty much everywhere.  So sales are either extremely strong or they just aren't reprinting the game once it sells out.  :)

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7 hours ago, xodarap said:

My only question is will they continue to reprint the physical stuff that they have released for the game so far?  Earlier expansions seem sold out pretty much everywhere.  So sales are either extremely strong or they just aren't reprinting the game once it sells out.  :)

Sales seem to be very strong. If you look on https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/upcoming/ and search "descent" you'll see that they're reprinting everything, but (just as one example)  the reprint of Chains that Rust just hit the market like two weeks ago and it's already sold out again on MiniatureMarket.com . 

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11 hours ago, 10355ts said:

Sales seem to be very strong. If you look on https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/upcoming/ and search "descent" you'll see that they're reprinting everything, but (just as one example)  the reprint of Chains that Rust just hit the market like two weeks ago and it's already sold out again on MiniatureMarket.com . 

Thanks so much, that's all I needed to know.  :)

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what do you guys think of seeing elements/mechanics that seem to be making gloomhaven so great (haven’t played it yet) incorporated into a future descent 3rd ed. ?

 

i really like the hex grid and how you can appenently not reveal the whole map at once. So hidden until you open a door like 1sr edition, hero quest etc.

 

also legacy elements that aren’t destructive might be cool to see in descent. 

 

For or those of you who have played gloomhaven, what do you think the best elements are that could be applied to the descent formula?

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Ultimately I think Gloomhaven needs to stay Gloomhaven and Descent needs to stay Descent. I like both for different reasons and I don't feel like a game being a mix of these two would make a better game necessarly. I think both have strong cases and rely on different pros, and they also have their own flaws as well.

In terms of things that "could be" ported into Descent without altering the very essence of the game:

- I like the hexes too. AoE attacks are more targeted, moving feels more natural (Descent feels like Hero Quest-y in that), diagonal movement is removed, better way to handle pull and push effects. Only downsides are that the map layout can look a bit weird sometimes, and doors don't work very well.

- Remove terrain from Descent maps and use the tokens instead. Art takes a hit, but it makes tiles way more replayable. For custom quests that must be a huge benefit. Also that also means you can have abilities to remove terrain (like the Cragheart who throws enemies on obstacles to destroy them), which is an interesting option.

- Keep the dices in Descent, but make more variation, as in dice customization. Dice Forge allows for a total customization of your dice and I´d like to see this in a game like Descent.

- Gloomhaven dumbed down silly LoS rules to oblivion... and I think it works a lot better this way for my personal needs. Sure, it becomes less tactical in terms of positioning but the game flows way better and gone are the discussions on whether any given figure gets LoS or not.

- I like traps on the map that go away when you walk on them.

- It feels like some Descent abilities could use a cooldown so they don't get spammed turn after turn. In Gloomhaven they are one-offs (to some extent), which means they FEEL powerful, unlike in Descent when casting your lvl 3 card feels like the all day long every day thing to do.

- The element system is very nice and encourages co-operation. It's a nice touch which gives a little variation, namely (for those who aren't familiar with Gloomhaven) that you get added effects if you use an element, or you can wake elements by doing some of your actions. If player A creates Wind then player B can be enticed to using an ability that uses Wind for better throughput.

 

There isn't much more, some stuff is a way more tricky to introduce:

- Conditions in Gloomhaven are very similar to Descent's but they are tied to the card-driven game engine. A few could see some use in Descent, like Disarm (weaker Stun to remove attack action) or Muddle (disadvantage on attacks, could be implemented in Descent). Invisible condition sounds insane for a game like Descent, though.

- Descent doesn't scale very well to power creep, the act-driven campaign system, XP system and OL card purchase systems would need to be revisited to accomodate an open world type of campaign system like in Gloomhaven. Not sure Descent would be Descent after that, though.

Edited by Indalecio

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What I really think is missing in Descent is the sense of exploration. (Gloomhaven actually has an optional random dungeon option).

The maps (and most things on it) are known to the players at start. Games like Hero Quest and Warhammer Quest had hidden/random maps, adding mystery and surprises to the mix.

Imperial Assault has this to a limited degree. At least you don´t know what is lurking behind that next door.

Nerekhall had a system where the OL could select 1 out of 3 random effects on many of its quests. I loved that - psychological warfare is always fun.

I would love to see random maps, hidden doors and such in a new Descent expansion/Descent 3. And WITHOUT removing the Overlord.

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I think of Descent (and Gloomhaven) as a tactical game more than an adventure game. I guess the requirement on "adventure" is emphasized by the fact fantasy to many means adventure. Whereas in Descent, it's more like you know what you get into in advance and try to fulfill the mission, as opposed to opening doors to find some random treasure.

The problem with exploration is that it makes for unlogical situations. Skavens in one room, skeletons in the next one in Warhammer Quest etc. Boss is a Troll, nice. Hero Quest had a taste of exploration but the layout was stil fixed and the feeling only lasted the first quest, but I get what you mean by that.

Not saying it's bad, I´m playing the D&D adventure game system with everything mixed together and the map looks crazy after a game (espcially now that jungle tiles have been released, they look odd next to my castle ravenloft tiles lol), plus the monsters can be just everything. I like that a lot and can get past the non-logical argument for the simple reason that it's fun. Kind of brainless, party-game ish where you´re not really immersed in some sort of story for once. But of course it's not the same fun as in entering a dungeon and let your GM guide you through the rooms and encounter the characters/monsters in a RPG.

It gave me an idea. I don't know if you´´re familiar with the EXIT games, where you are stuck in some place and try to resolve puzzles to get out. Maybe Descent could propose a game system and then release a series of one-off quests where you basically know nothing about and try to get to an outcome. Maybe the Overlord could have different set of information than the heroes, and you would play from different premices. Could be cool.

Or, make a huge scenario with several sections of map - some of them could be randomized - and allow the heroes to explore it.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sidious78 said:

I would love to see random maps, hidden doors and such in a new Descent expansion/Descent 3. And WITHOUT removing the Overlord.

Look into Dungeon Saga with the Adventurer's Companion expansion.

Technically it's possible to port your descent miniatures to that as well, since you can make your own characters.

That said, DS is a lighter version of Descent and comes with its own problems. Still, it's the closest I got to that "Hero Quest" feeling.

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While this is of course speculation, I don't think that FFG just decided to kill off Descent.

Instead, I believe that Asmodee realized, that there are simply more people willing to pay more money for products that carry the "Star Wars" name.

The resources that are needed to develop games are limited after all, and if everyone is working on the big sellers, there isn't very much room to work on niche products (and we have to admit, that an 8th boxed expansion for a game in it's later lifecycle would be considered as such).

I'd be very happy if new physical content would arrive at some point, but at the moment I sadly don't see it happening. I still hope though, that a "Labyrinth of Ruin" themed campaign for RtL might arrive at some point, but even that is far from certain.

On the other hand, I really hope that Asmodee doesn't turn out to be another EA, only concerned with milking brand names and draining talent from it's subsidiaries in the process.

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While I have been still receiving answers to rules questions, I'm now over 100 days waiting for a response (let alone a fix) to a quest vault support request.

I really used to believe in the development and support team for this game. My interactions with them during rules communications, quest vaulting, and playtesting showed them to be dedicated, receptive, and fun people. (I once got 2 responses from FFGFra -Francesco, who was/(is?) on the vault support team- in the same day, working with me to fix a bug that was preventing quests from saving in chrome.)

However, ever since the Asmodee merger something has changed. My suspicion (based on my previous experience with the Descent team) is that they are unable (as opposed to unwilling) to put the time into Descent they used to. Unfortunately, whatever the cause, the outcome is the same.

As far as I'm concerned, physical D2E is dead.  I'll believe otherwise when/ if I see it.

Edited by Zaltyre

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So as not to be a big downer, it's worth mentioning that even without additional content Descent remains a lot of fun to play, and the community here is wonderful. I'm always impressed by the users who contribute by making tools, guides, links, or really insightful posts.

Just because ANA has checked out doesn't mean we can't continue to have a good time with D2e.

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36 minutes ago, TurboCooler said:

Now that FFG has released the official Imperial Assault App https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/11/20/legends-of-the-alliance/ 

Hopefully they can now turn some resources to Descent as well

I really doubt that FFG will put it's resources in Road to Legend again, now that they have another project to work on.

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46 minutes ago, TurboCooler said:

Now that FFG has released the official Imperial Assault App https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/11/20/legends-of-the-alliance/ 

Hopefully they can now turn some resources to Descent as well

If the poster from BGG a while back is to be believed, this announcement would spell the official end of the Descent line. If Asmodee believes Imperial Assault to satisfy the need for a dungeon crawler, there's not much business sense in making 2 of them to compete with each other.

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39 minutes ago, Proto Persona said:

If the poster from BGG a while back is to be believed, this announcement would spell the official end of the Descent line. If Asmodee believes Imperial Assault to satisfy the need for a dungeon crawler, there's not much business sense in making 2 of them to compete with each other.

He's not. He's been pretty clearly exposed as a troll at this point.

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2 hours ago, Proto Persona said:

If the poster from BGG a while back is to be believed, this announcement would spell the official end of the Descent line. If Asmodee believes Imperial Assault to satisfy the need for a dungeon crawler, there's not much business sense in making 2 of them to compete with each other.

FFG owns the Descent IP, they are license the Star Wars IP.  Descent is also part of the Runewars Story line.  Star Wars can go away at anytime Disney decides they are done just as the Hobbit IP was pulled from GW many years ago.  There is value to keep Descent.  They acknowledged its importance during the In Flight Meeting at GenCon50.  IMHO, it is not going away.

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10 minutes ago, TurboCooler said:

FFG owns the Descent IP, they are license the Star Wars IP.  Descent is also part of the Runewars Story line.  Star Wars can go away at anytime Disney decides they are done just as the Hobbit IP was pulled from GW many years ago.  There is value to keep Descent.  They acknowledged its importance during the In Flight Meeting at GenCon50.  IMHO, it is not going away.

Good point.  And we also know what happened to Warhammer Quest Adventure Card Game.

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1 hour ago, Bucho said:

He's not. He's been pretty clearly exposed as a troll at this point.

Matter of opinion really. The last DLC for RtL was a lazy slapdash effort that could have been pushed out by a single bored programmer in his spare time. I don't think it disproves the poster in any meaningful way. 

31 minutes ago, TurboCooler said:

FFG owns the Descent IP, they are license the Star Wars IP.  Descent is also part of the Runewars Story line.  Star Wars can go away at anytime Disney decides they are done just as the Hobbit IP was pulled from GW many years ago.  There is value to keep Descent.  They acknowledged its importance during the In Flight Meeting at GenCon50.  IMHO, it is not going away.

Sure, but an IP like Star Wars can still bring in people that would never give a game with an unknown name on it a try.  There's absolutely risk in using someone else's IP. Asmodee also has a history of betting on the big name IP over the independent IP they own themselves.

Personally I consider the In Flight Meeting reference as PR fluff. "Yeah, you're totally still important to us! See, we put out some DLC for you. We're not just ignoring your support requests and emails for weeks and months because we don't care about your product line. We've just been super busy with other products. Products that are in no way more important to us than your's is, I promise."

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