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Shecian

The Future of 2nd Edition

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1 hour ago, mulletcheese said:

I'm counting the RPG announcement from yesterday as terrinoth news because you know there will be a setting book on the way. 

Been waiting for an Descent\Runewars\Terrinoth RPG.

Just look at IA, XW, and 4 SW RPG FFG has going. 

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I think that if one keeps a couple things in mind, the scenario makes a lot more sense and offers a degree of hope too.

The Asmodee purchase has affected a lot of how FFG does business. To be blunt, FFG products seem to constantly be in and out of stock marketwide for months at a time. FFG is clearly ordering smaller batches of both new and reprinted products, which is why it might be impossible to find a particular "Hero and Monster Collection" at MSRP this month (thank you, scalpers) but be readily available everywhere next month. I've observed this across their product lines for the past year or so now.

Asmodee, as a company, doesn't seem to 'believe' in updating content as frequently as olde FFG has done in the past. Whereas we might have seen a big box and one or two small boxes a year (depending on the product line), most lines have now trickled down to a single box per year -I couldn't help feeling like MoM's last expansion was kind of a joke, after being spread out so far, only ONE new monster class and ONE new scenario? Ugh.

Lastly, Asmodee has a bit of a reputation for purchasing companies and then culling back to just the main top selling product lines. This is where Descent throws a wrench into the mix. Prior to the app, Descent sales appeared to have been slowing down to crawl. It was enough that many retailers we're beginning to reduce their inventories with pretty frequent discounts on expansions and miniature packs -notably more often than most product lines. After several years and expansions, nobody would have faulted you for saying that the product was winding down.

But then the app happened.

The whole thing was a bit of an experiment, one that FFG had likely been pouring money into long before the buyout, making it difficult for Asmodee to justify cancelling. When you're that close, it would be a waste not to finish it up and see what happens. And when that app launched, it renewed interest in the line. Those of us who had all the expansions were ecstatic about new content for our existing stuff, those who didn't have everything suddenly had reason to want to get the rest of the product line right away. And whether you had just the base game, a couple expansions, or a giant collection, even the paid additional app content seemed worthwhile to most. Descent suddenly turned back into a gold mine.

So what happened? Why stop making content for it?

There's a lead time from development to finalized product. And the most logical guess is that Asmodee pulled any resources that might have been working on physical Descent expansions, to work on other products -new lines like the recent Rune Wars miniatures game, or just existing lines that had previously been selling better than Descent. Management would likely be apprehensive about moving people back to an older product like Descent, likely wanting to see sustained sales, to be sure this wasn't just a brief fluke. Once people get reassigned to make new Descent content, it could be a good year before they're even ready to send things to the printers in China. Factor in quality control, internal testing, etc., and you've got a pretty big gap in time between releases. 

Also, consider that FFG/Asmodee might want to give their newest Terrinoth product the limelight for a 6-12 Month period, so as not to cannibalize their own sales. So if something is nearly done with development, they might be keeping tight-lipped about it so as not to hurt RW sales.

Given the renewed success of D2e since RtL, I do think more expansions will arrive. But I think we may not hear about them until later this year, with release potentially next year.

All of this is of course speculative, but it all makes logical sense.

Edited by TehHandsomeDan

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I am pretty sure that Asmodee is not deciding an once on what FFG is doing. They may have financial tagets to achieve that s all.

Now that said, the Descent line product was, if not already, close to be abandonned when they launch RTL.
In the meantime sales have  been boosted and FFG knows that there is a market for "app supported Dungeon Crawling".
It would be a shame that FFG does not continue to deliver the market when there is money to earn.
Moreover i read that FFG has some trouble with the IA app because they do not have the rights to develop electronical content for star wars (i do not know if it is true). So Descent could be the only app supported crawler.

So my guess is that there may be at least 2 new contents  :
- Free App Campaign to support the Mislands boxes

- Physical box containing material for an app campaign or Physical box containing material for a physical and app campaign (could be an Uthuk campaign announced at Gencon and delivery date around beginning 2018)

 

 

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I saw someone had posted here asking about the future of Descent 2nd edition...

 

It with a sad and heavy heart I post this.  Over the last 6 months or so I have made several friends at FFG.  While they signed a NDA, I was able to coax little by little pieces of information about the fate of Descent 2nd edition over some time.  I will not name names or genders or if the people who have provided me said information are still employed there.  But I can confirm this has been verified by multiple sources (see more details at the bottom).

 

So around a year ago FFG was looking to wind down D2edn as Imperial Assault had become a hit.  The dungeon crawler genre has become increasingly competitive with newer designs and familiar intellectual properties.  Newer designs or these new games based on classic IPs were causing Descent to go from a genre leader, to a former heavy weight ready to retire.  Plus Kick Starters had shown people had appetites for larger more pricey dungeon crawlers and willing to put the cash where their appetite was.  Descent was just having a very very hard time competing in the market place.  There apparently had been some discussion about a D3ed but at the time the decision was made to just wind it down for the time, Chains of Rush would be it.

 

Around the same time FFG had begun to look into app based "assisted" games and felt D2ed was a decent attempt (sales had plummeted and they were going to retire it anyway so why not).  It was a much bigger success than originally intended.  So much so that they cranked out several other products for it, to ensure there was really an appetite for something that took a 1 v all game and turned it straight coop and not just a fluke. 

 

It was such a success that they realized they could (with no further development) continue to profit from sales of D2ed.  Literally all they had to do was print it and they had this whole untapped market from which sales from previously unreachable consumers would just flow in.  Ensuring it did not compete with Rune Wars Miniatures Games, they slowly commissioned reprints of select products.

 

They then set their eyes on Imperial Assault and releasing an app for it.  As development continued, they hit a snag that they did not hold the rights to develop the electronic app content and they are still trying to work out through licensing (though I was told if we don’t hear any update by GenCon, odds are it’s not going to happen at all for Imperial Assault).

 

Back to D2ed though, with Imperial Assault having such a wider audience (SW fans, dungeon crawler fans, and skirmish fans) the choice to focus on Imperial Assault and let D2ed sell while it can is where FFG stands today.  That is why there hasn’t even been any new electronic content for D2ed. 

 

If FFG is able to work out the app licensing with Disney/Lucas Film, D2ed will go into phase out mode with no 3rd edition planned for the foreseeable future.   The hope is to lure those people who want fantasy into Rune Wars Miniatures Game, RuneBound, or the Genesis RPG by saying look it’s the same world, same characters, try this now or move over to Imperial Assault if they want the dungeon crawler. 

 

If the licensing cannot be worked out, they will continue to reprint what they feel will net the most revenue without any new development cost, that means certain items may not ever see reprint, market analysis will determine that.

 

There will not, however, be more app content for D2ed.  The decision is that if they do choose to release a 3rd edition at some point (which will only be when D2ed sales bottom out), the fully app supported coop function would be a core feature to present value over D2ed owners.  Furthermore, there will not be a conversion kit this time around as FFG feels that by tweaking D2ed’s formula (1 v all or app based coop, alternating activations, deployment points vs straight monster spawning, a skirmish variant) that they will be able to incentivize existing D2ed players and new consumers to the market place into switching over to a D3. 

 

They are holding off any news on D2ed though due to licensing issues over the IA app.  That will decide if FFG will carry a fantasy themed dungeon crawler (3rd edition) a couple years from now when D2ed sales drop off, or if Imperial Assault with be THE dungeon crawler for FFG.

 

I know there are some who will argue and disagree with me.  They will point out any number of “facts”.  My purpose here is not to start a controversy.  Rather it is solely to let the community for a game I love and enjoy know what I have spent months and months uncovering.  You can choose not to believe me, but know this… I have had all of this confirmed through 4 separate unrelated friendships with FFG employees.  I will not disclose my contacts as they have to sign NDAs and I do not feel like ruining lives, just providing a community with news on decisions that FFG should have made public to its consumers.

 

I am not saying avoid purchasing the game.  It is great and fun and I own everything for it.  Just know, going into it, that what is there is there and there won’t be more.  There will always be 1 less healer and arcane class than warrior and rogue.   We won’t ever see the other hybrid class possibilities (at least in this edition).  The monsters and heroes from 1st edition that are missing will always be so.  That is not a reason to avoid the game, just be informed is all.  And if you wish to get into it, grab what you can as we may not see reprints on certain items based on the date of the IA app and past retail success of D2ed products.

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Well the core game and some expansions seems to be in the printer.
I dont know but i read a similar post in BGG forum and i think that some people that havent invested in the game are trying to push for a new edition.
I have all the expansions and im pleased with the game as it is.
I can play heroes vs overlord, heroes vs game, heroes vs application and  i can dungeon delve.

The only thing that i want is some more expansions and more Campaign books like Heirs of Blood .

Finally, i think that FFG is just focusing in Runewars Miniatures at the moment.
It is a new release and they have to support it.
But im optimistic since both games are in Runebound Universe and the sculpts can easily be used in Descent.

Lets be patient. The Winter is coming.

Edited by jopan

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Expansion books would be the better idea, indead ! But a "card only" box could also be a good idea, with classes (for heroes and overlord), items, and maybe relics to use in that specific campaign. Good improvement for all players, the ones who play the app, and the ones who do not

Edited by rugal

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I'd be happy with even just one more mini expansion simply to round out the Healer and Mage classes.. them being one full class shorter than Warrior and Scout grates on my desire for symmetry..

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1 hour ago, Charmy said:

I'd be happy with even just one more mini expansion simply to round out the Healer and Mage classes.. them being one full class shorter than Warrior and Scout grates on my desire for symmetry..

This in a desertic theme. Perfect!

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Don't be so sad ! I see two points :

first, it's not "offical" stuff, so, things may change.

second, even if it's true, Descent has so much content and i'm sure that community, like myself, will add "unofficial stuff" for a long time, so the game is far from being dead

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No need for sadness - change is inevitable. We have one huge game in Descent 2nd if you have actually bought all the expansions (i haven't managed to do this anyway).

The app has a good amount of content to enjoy, with 3 RTL campaigns and a delve, then you have all the overlord v hero campaign options too plus some good vault scenarios. There is loads of gameplay available. Sure we can want more, but i think the future is being considered at the moment.

Clearly they are focused on Runewars, the good news is that it is the same world so largely means it would be daft not to cash in on crossovers somehow - and with a dungeon crawl game, which are peaking in popularity right now.

The biggest issue around i think is the scale of the heroes - times have changed since 2012 and dungeon crawl games see bigger scaled heroes in newer games, and FFG itself seem to have changed scale with more recent releases - i think Descent has to adapt to this somehow either with a hero pack or a new game version as it is becoming inconsistent within the game. Notably Runewars heroes are larger scale now and not original Descent scale. The app is a good adaptation of the 2012 rules - but i suspect a market exists for a new fully integrated app based dungeon crawl. Will FFG be the ones to fill it first with a newly written game to maximise the potential ?

Edited by Crusaderlord

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Not fully sure about Imperial Assault scale as i do not own it (i have played it and i felt heroes were bigger than the core Descent set at the time but i may not remember it right) - and it is not a game to me competing with newer fantasy dungeon crawls like Sword & Sorcery, Silver Tower or Massive Darkness. Whilst IA uses a similar ruleset to Descent it is never going to feel like a fantasy dungeon crawl whether they do add an app to that or not. 

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I am convinced that this email is a pure prank. 
"The hope is to lure those people who want fantasy into Rune Wars Miniatures Game, RuneBound, or the Genesis RPG by saying look it’s the same world, same characters, try this now or move over to Imperial Assault if they want the dungeon crawler."
IA universe is so far away from Heroic Fantasy that is pure bull to imagine that approach. Runebound and Runewars are completly différent games.
Bloody Hell it is Descent we are talking about.

sorry I don't buy it

 

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I cant understand FFG when Descent 2 is over now! The potential for the App still now ist amazing! I would not wait and buy for this in two years in Descent 3! 

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This is so sad. I really hoped for more box expansions with varied themes that are usually part of any fantasy. I would really love to see a Woodland expansion.. with big trees, fireflies and ****... someone mentioned a Winter themed with ice and snow - nice! totally agree. Then maybe something tropical or Pandora like, or maybe a Dreamland gaaaah... I want more boxes!

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7 hours ago, Tintaglia said:

We already dumped everything from D1 to get D2...and know again for D3 ??? ok i am off.
And i want a dungeon crawler (Gold, Caves, Sorcery, Castles...)  not a space opera crawler...
...

I dunno if this is serious, but c'mon. No way I´.d buy a third edition. And I mean no way for real. I started my 2nd edition collection just around 2 years ago!

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7 hours ago, leewroy said:

I dunno if this is serious, but c'mon. No way I´.d buy a third edition. And I mean no way for real. I started my 2nd edition collection just around 2 years ago!

Exactly my point.
For me it is more a question of money. We re not talking about a standalone game as is Runebound, where there is no so much inconvenience to buy an another version. With Descent it is whole collection that you have to change...
But now when i think to all the players who bought the base game and add on just for Road to Legend which was one year ago, and know that guy saying that there won't be others campaigns. I am so pissed off for them...
Imagine here (France) a lot of people are still waiting the translation,ndlr that will arrive pretty soon, to enter the game, but they all think that the app and the game will be supported at least a couple of years more.
To have not a lot of physical content that i could understand but one box more would'nt have kill anybody. But to abandon the app after one year, after the success it is ?!?
CMON would have paid for that move...

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