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Shecian

The Future of 2nd Edition

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Really, I don't understand: do you really think that in Asmodee are so ... to think that people interested in Descent2 will buy Imperial Assault if they don't publish Descent2 any more? They are just losing a part of market that is going to buy other products from other suppliers.

The only correct reasoning (as others already said) is that they think that the market they lose is less than the effort they have to put in developing new Descent2 contents, but this is contradicted by the fact that they always claimed that the line had positive numbers.

So, IMHO, the only correct hope is that they soon realise that they need to continue to publish Descentx physical contents also in a reduced way (1 expansion per year?). If Descentx will be Descent3, everybody of us will take his decision (to buy or not to buy?) :-)

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2 hours ago, tibia said:

Really, I don't understand: do you really think that in Asmodee are so ... to think that people interested in Descent2 will buy Imperial Assault if they don't publish Descent2 any more? They are just losing a part of market that is going to buy other products from other suppliers.

The only correct reasoning (as others already said) is that they think that the market they lose is less than the effort they have to put in developing new Descent2 contents, but this is contradicted by the fact that they always claimed that the line had positive numbers.

I'd say one the second one is more likely. At the same time though the first sentence factors into that too. Star Wars as a brand is objectively more popular the the Terrinoth setting. It absolutely brings in more impulse buys from non-board gamers. Growing your user base is usually more important than just retaining the ones you already have.

We know the numbers tripled after the launch of RtL, but that doesn't mean it reached the level of profit that FFG or Asmodee want to see. Investors can make some stupid demands on your profit margins.

2 hours ago, tibia said:

So, IMHO, the only correct hope is that they soon realise that they need to continue to publish Descentx physical contents also in a reduced way (1 expansion per year?). If Descentx will be Descent3, everybody of us will take his decision (to buy or not to buy?) :-)

They have another option. Let the Descent line completely die out while they maximise efforts to push the Imperial Assault line. When IA starts to taper off they can "bring back the classic experience" as just IA with a fantasy skin on it. Very little investment, tons of return.

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I'm kinda ok with no new physical Descend 2nd expansions, I have everything and I don't have any more room in my tackle box! 

They do seem to still be reprinting most expansions though. Mists of Bilehall is already "awaiting reprint" so the most recent print run must have sold out VERY fast. My guess is they're fine with under-producing it a bit (especially if that means allocating more printer time to the Star Wars line) but it's still profitable enough that they don't want to let it die out, just want to keep surfing the high edge of the demand curve. 

I do hope we get one or two more Descent app expansions; one more solid campaign would be ideal. 

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1 hour ago, Proto Persona said:

I'd say one the second one is more likely. At the same time though the first sentence factors into that too. Star Wars as a brand is objectively more popular the the Terrinoth setting. It absolutely brings in more impulse buys from non-board gamers. Growing your user base is usually more important than just retaining the ones you already have.

We know the numbers tripled after the launch of RtL, but that doesn't mean it reached the level of profit that FFG or Asmodee want to see. Investors can make some stupid demands on your profit margins.

They have another option. Let the Descent line completely die out while they maximise efforts to push the Imperial Assault line. When IA starts to taper off they can "bring back the classic experience" as just IA with a fantasy skin on it. Very little investment, tons of return.

My guess is that Descent is still very profitable but IA is more profitable while also competing for the same production resources (design team, printer time, etc.). So they've shifted emphasis, and Descent production (reprints, new apps, etc.) is on back-burner status filling in the corners from IA. 

You're probably long-term correct though. IA is basically Descent 3rd edition with a fantasy skin, so it'll make sense to "relaunch" descent as 3rd edition in a few years with more refined gameplay based on what they learn from IA. 

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Thankfully for my wallet I'm ok with no new Descent physical products either. I have not yet collected all the expansions yet as my campaign hits the table quite rarely due to busy friends with families.

I will look forward if they continue to support the game with new campaign scenarios though.

Seems to me their focus with the the Terrinoth IP is focussed on Runewars and Dragonholt RPG.

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As someone new to Descent, I'd still like to see one or two more physical expansions.  That might seem odd coming from someone who is still missing (waiting for reprint) LotW, LoR, and SoN, but I'd hate to think that once I have those, there will be nothing else to look forward to.  Honestly though, I'd be happy for tile packs that come with unlock codes for RtL campaigns that make use of those tile packs.  I'd love to see new tile themes like icy caverns, sandy/desert ruins, etc.

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Why FFG dont make a new Box with the last Heroes and Classes? Maybe a Fanbox? And a App-Campaign for this Box. And why not new App-Campaigns for the other Boxes (Mists of Bilehal, Chains that Rust,...)? There are a great Potential for sell all the Boxes! 

A Tiles-Pack would be great!

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The reason I switched to board games in the first place was dice and physical content. Apps and digital content doesn't please me at all; in fact I hate that they have eliminated the Overlord in the digital content. I like the concept of random maps (exploration), but that's it. (The original Warhammer Quest did this neatly with cards.)

If FFG wants more of my money (and I do indeed have every D2 product there is, except the coop add-ons) they need to put out more content. Or else I will be looking for other alternatives. In fact, my group is embarking on our first Gloomhaven campaign this coming holiday. Merry christmas! ;)

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I have to agree with Sidious: I too prefer physical content. Seems like Gloomhaven is the popular game this year. My group will be running thru Gloomhaven starting this Christmas break. Until Descent comes out with more 2nd edition content we won't revisit it.

I won't be on board with a Descent 3rd edition. I've gone thru 1st and 2nd edition Descent and I feel 2nd edition is incomplete. Several heroes are missing from the conversion update. I was expecting more classes too. The app is nice but is not a substitute. If 2nd edition does not get more content I will not trust FFG to treat a 3rd edition any differently. Which is a shame because I was starting to purchase more Imperial Assault content but honestly IA is following a similar pattern of slowing down in content production.

I realize the IA App came out recently and I've seen the old-as-time-itself argument of "The company is busy focusing on <insert product here> and therefore not Descent or IA." That argument is irrelevant to the point. They can choose to focus on specific products and I can choose to keep my wallet closed and open it for another company that continues to focus on a product that performed well. Look at all the posts for Descent compared to other games. This isn't one of the less popular games by any means. They need to invest more into it instead of asking customers to jump ship to another one of their products.

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Took me a while to decide starting get things for the second edition (2015). Then, in between 2015 and 2016 I've got all I wanted (just no co-ops and H&M collections). To tell the truth, I played less than 10% of the content, cause I run my own board game. Descent is more to about minis and tiles for me.

This time I'm sure I will not get into 3rd edition when and if it comes out someday.

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@Sidious

I m surprised to read, that you dont own the coop add ons whit physical content (Forgotten Souls, Natures Ire and Dark Elements).

They use a quite similar random dungeonbuild like WH Quest.

 

Greetings

H

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4 hours ago, Tetrarch said:

@Sidious

I m surprised to read, that you dont own the coop add ons whit physical content (Forgotten Souls, Natures Ire and Dark Elements).

They use a quite similar random dungeonbuild like WH Quest.

 

Greetings

H

 

I actually found Natures Ire a few weeks ago, which was great since it was the only one I hadn't played.

 

My only issue with these packs as 'physical content' is that you still need the PDF for the tile layouts, which is a little silly since you have to draw a card for them anyway.  Would have been nice if they had put the setup info on the actual card.

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On 12/18/2017 at 0:15 PM, Electris said:

I have to agree with Sidious: I too prefer physical content. Seems like Gloomhaven is the popular game this year. My group will be running thru Gloomhaven starting this Christmas break. Until Descent comes out with more 2nd edition content we won't revisit it.

I won't be on board with a Descent 3rd edition. I've gone thru 1st and 2nd edition Descent and I feel 2nd edition is incomplete. Several heroes are missing from the conversion update. I was expecting more classes too. The app is nice but is not a substitute. If 2nd edition does not get more content I will not trust FFG to treat a 3rd edition any differently. Which is a shame because I was starting to purchase more Imperial Assault content but honestly IA is following a similar pattern of slowing down in content production.

I realize the IA App came out recently and I've seen the old-as-time-itself argument of "The company is busy focusing on <insert product here> and therefore not Descent or IA." That argument is irrelevant to the point. They can choose to focus on specific products and I can choose to keep my wallet closed and open it for another company that continues to focus on a product that performed well. Look at all the posts for Descent compared to other games. This isn't one of the less popular games by any means. They need to invest more into it instead of asking customers to jump ship to another one of their products.

Looking at things, they do seem a bit more open to significantly longer gaps between product releases -especially if something isn't necessarily selling gangbusters. I mean, they came back and did an X-Com expansion after a pretty significant period of time from the original. I think Asmodee is reworking things in a way that they think might cannabalize their own sales a bit less. It might not make the most sense, for example, to push out a new boxed expansion for Descent when you know you're gearing up for a big new product release in the same universe a la Rune Wars. I'm not holding my breath here, but I also wouldn't be surprised if we still saw another boxed expansion pop up in the next 6-12 months. Perhaps a larger one, to signal larger content drops further apart... Maybe even something like a revised core box. I could see them doing a new core that would be COMPATIBLE with everything from the current releases, but maybe has a new core campaign and is more dependent on the app (encouraging digital purchases). The idea of a third edition might be tempting... But if you could effectively introduce a new method of play that depends on the app further, and still allows you to continue selling the product you've already developed... It might not be a bad idea to maintain compatibility in some form or another. Sure, you can sell more new content with a third edition -but you've got to develop and lay all that out first, and that takes time and labor.

I'm learning to just be more patient between releases, enjoy more of a variety of other games while I wait for my next addiction releases, and ultimately snickering at the fact that Asmodee's new owners (in their infinite wisdom) think this strategy of theirs will net them more, or even a similar amount of money from my checkbook.

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On 1/15/2018 at 10:05 PM, TehHandsomeDan said:

Maybe even something like a revised core box....maybe has a new core campaign...

They JUST did that, they'd have to be fairly incompetent to turn right around and do it again.

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They need a Dual Campaign (2x Mini Box) based on the Uthuk invasion of a City. Act One getting into the city through a siege and Act II solving the problem inside and restoring the Golems.. say Valyvale or Frostgate. Include in each box is 4 Dual class (8 total). More search cards and Uthuk travel cards or City & wilds travel cards.

3 Lieutenants including a Chaos Lord. More search cards and a Dynamic close to Taint in the Taint of the Mistlands Joint Campaign.

A big box with the last Mage and Healer classes and more search cards in Al Karim or south in the Elf realms. MoonShine Cats need to be included and as good crowd control over Heros. 4 Lieutenants obviously and 4 of the missing D1 Heroes?

Every large campaign in hardback that includes all expansions rules in modular form. Shadow Rune to be a 2nd Edition.

That would be brill but there's so much more scope for more expansions

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On 10/31/2018 at 9:18 PM, Dburns41866 said:

They need a Dual Campaign (2x Mini Box) based on the Uthuk invasion of a City. Act One getting into the city through a siege and Act II solving the problem inside and restoring the Golems.. say Valyvale or Frostgate. Include in each box is 4 Dual class (8 total). More search cards and Uthuk travel cards or City & wilds travel cards.

3 Lieutenants including a Chaos Lord. More search cards and a Dynamic close to Taint in the Taint of the Mistlands Joint Campaign.

A big box with the last Mage and Healer classes and more search cards in Al Karim or south in the Elf realms. MoonShine Cats need to be included and as good crowd control over Heros. 4 Lieutenants obviously and 4 of the missing D1 Heroes?

Every large campaign in hardback that includes all expansions rules in modular form. Shadow Rune to be a 2nd Edition.

That would be brill but there's so much more scope for more expansions

Rugal and myself have some ideas including ones that revolve around the Uthuk (I've literally just suggested linking Al Kalim and the Ru homelands in a specific narrative way- no spoilers!) and something based on the concepts of Fall of a Dark Star (Runebound) / The Cataclysm (Rune Age) - both might suit being similar to such expansions in scope and the latter could allow for some different unique gameplay dynamics. I'm working on a 'fit the different pieces of the puzzle together' kind of over-arching campaign that will gel these different elements and ideas together. So it might be possible to satisfy some of these wishes.

Rugal is keen to include Kethra A'laak, Ravos the Everhungry is introduced in the bit of my project I'm working on at the moment and a third, maybe even fourth, lieutenant from the Uthuk could join them. I've only just started exploring the Uthuk in more detail so which of them are specifically Chaos Lords? That might help in choosing a third lieutenant. I like Beastmaster Th’Uk Tar too, he has the scope to appear in a non-Uthuk campaign as I like the idea that he could maybe corrupt more natural beasts and turn them into twisted corruptions of their previous form - rendering them ynfernael monsters, forced to be his pets and playthings, a potentially useful counter to mounted units, familiars or other creature units which I'm exploring making more use of in Descent. There are reasons I may make more use of the Ru for a hero or two too though (do we have any Ru heroes, I've taken on so much Mennara lore I'm not sure.? Varikas the Dead feels like he could have something of the ynfernael in him maybe. Creatively speaking there are a couple of others who may have it hidden in their depths. Not sure we've got a specifically Ru hero though.)

 

I'm intentionally doing things as parts of my project for Isheim and the Ru/ Uthuk as they've not featured much of late and Descent 2e hasn't really taken us into those realms, likewise the piratey haunts and seas of 1e, Zanaga, Al-Kalim and even some new places I'm coming up with (some of which I may not even have thought up yet). Although I'm keen to bring all the lore together eventually I'm also keen to make sure I use the less prominent heroes and adversaries so some of these and some forgotten ones from other games/ older versions of games will be making appearances, sometimes as key protagonists of the story. Might make a bit less use of Eliza Farrow though! Or at least keep her back for later, she's popped up a lot, mind you so has Splig and he's in my current module plans, I couldn't resist an idea I'd had to pair him with Ravos for their mutual dodgy dealings.

 

So maybe some of your boxes will be ticked in the next couple of years. I say years as it's quite a big undertaking- there's a lot to make, make work and meld together, but I have started to break it down into modules so I can put one release out at a time to lessen the wait and put ideas out there for people to playtest and feedback on, things may not work first time as Descent design has its challenges- especially with my project being for Genesys and Descent (making modules work in both forms) and with Descent on the balance front as with so many variables at play it's easy for things to be over or under powered or to create unforseen problems with maps, so there's also the journey of where's it broken and where does it need fixing.

Edited by Watercolour Dragon
typo

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