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Grivoire

The Auzituck, The B-Wing and The U-Wing

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If it isn't apparent, the title is a play on "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly".

I'm not too confident of my math to show the numbers, but I believe this is the general comparison between said three ships. At least with the leak we have on Auzituck, it seems like a stronger version of B-wing. 180 arc in a small ship is a bliss.

Why can't the U-wing K-turn? It hits like a B-Wing, slightly tankier but moves like a huge HWK-290 without a turret slot. When it does reverse its direction, it has to telegraph one round in advance. Shouldn't the pivot wings do better than that? Why is U-Wing a large ship based in the first place? I heard the fluff < balance argument many times. Is this balance? 

Enlighten me please. I want to make U-Wing works without buying four of them.

Edited by Grivoire

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I wouldn't say a strong B-Wing. There are enough differences in actions and slots to differentiate the two. In some ways, the Auzituck is offensively weaker.

The U-Wing is...an unfortunate case. It was meant to be the Rebel's Lambda Shuttle, but there isn't the kind of support crew for Rebels like Palp that can justify the poor time on target. If Rebel's do get a comparable crew (my money would be on a Master Luke crew card from an Episode 8 expansion), then we might see the U-Wing more. But until then, the support it provides just isn't enough to catch most people's eye.

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Yeah, in it's role as the Crew Carrier/Support ship, the U-Wing is phenomenal compared to the Lambda. It has white turns, and with it's title it can turn a 0 Stop into a 0 K, and otherwise it has 2 whole agility, an improvement over the Lambda, and over the B-Wing and Wookiee Gunship - though that also can reinforce (which wouldn't work on a large base ship with normal arcs anyway, though). While you can pack in some firepower for it to take care of itself, it's not really platformed as a heavy hitter - all it's pilot abilities are supportive. 

B-Wings are actually terrible crew carriers considering it costs you a mod slot to use that one upgrade. While the Gunship can take two crew, this does not seem to be it's primary purpose. Wookiee Commandos is a double slot crew for the purpose of limiting the ships it can fit on to... more logical ones. Sure, you could cram HSCP and Gunner there, make big 180 degree sweeps but considering this thing has no TL, and if you want to use reinforce you won't be focusing (and I bet it doesn't have a knife fighting dial) that's probably a great way to give your opponent a fat target to chip at for a few turns. Both it and the U-Wing I think are not intended to be "fat" ships, like with big crew slot ships you load up with heavy duty stuff, but more give you a couple slots to sneak something in on the cheap.

That said... The Gunship might hold some benefit to the U. It has two crew and a system slot. You could load it with FCS and Wookiee commandos for pretty cheap, that's a lot of dice mods on 3 red dice. 

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Call me crazy but I'd like to see a U-Wing upgrade that lets you ditch a crew for and astro maybe a point limit one the astro? And can equip a second mod of 3 or less points. Could fly Bodies Rohk with M9-G8 and weapons engineer

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1 hour ago, Yoda Man said:

Slap engine upgrade and on your U-wing and you're dandy.

Slap engine upgrade on all the large, hard to maneuver ships and they're still in aces' firing arcs at their desired form of donut hole.

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2 hours ago, Grivoire said:

If it isn't apparent, the title is a play on "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly".

I'm not too confident of my math to show the numbers, but I believe this is the general comparison between said three ships. At least with the leak we have on Auzituck, it seems like a stronger version of B-wing. 180 arc in a small ship is a bliss.

Why can't the U-wing K-turn? It hits like a B-Wing, slightly tankier but moves like a huge HWK-290 without a turret slot. When it does reverse its direction, it has to telegraph one round in advance. Shouldn't the pivot wings do better than that? Why is U-Wing a large ship based in the first place? I heard the fluff < balance argument many times. Is this balance? 

Enlighten me please. I want to make U-Wing works without buying four of them.

Ok so as for why it needs to be large base I think it's actually because of fluff, not balance. It's the way the ship balances, those wings are massive, and I suspect it just would be hard to hold the darned thing up on a small base. I could be wrong, but that's my theory. Those things hang off of the large base. The lack of K-Turn is upsetting, but the generic U-Wing is a decent jouster (not a defender, but what is? Now as for a support, it has some great crew options and with bigger threats around, it won't draw much fire. As for balance concerns, YT-1300s have turrets 2 crew and K-Turns, albeit they are not as cheap as the U-Wing, which is priced like a small base. The B-Wing while statted similarly has a target lock, more high pilot skill pilots, a native barrel roll, a crew slot option, and a system slot option. As a raw jouster, the gunship outclasses it, but the B-Wing outclasses it in versatility. Ohh I forgot, it has missiles and a cannon too. The B-Wing can be a lot of things. Heck Kenyan Farlander with PTL and Engines makes it an arc dodger/ace. I highly doubt that the wookie gunship will ever reach that point. I'm not saying the B-Wing doesn't have problems, it's just that it is a different beast entirely. But yes for 3 dice on high hull, I think the gunship is better than say blues. 

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13 minutes ago, BlueMusketeer28 said:

*snipsnip* The B-Wing while statted similarly has a target lock, more high pilot skill pilots, a native barrel roll, a crew slot option, and a system slot option. As a raw jouster, the gunship outclasses it, but the B-Wing outclasses it in versatility. Ohh I forgot, it has missiles and a cannon too. The B-Wing can be a lot of things. Heck Kenyan Farlander with PTL and Engines makes it an arc dodger/ace. I highly doubt that the wookie gunship will ever reach that point. I'm not saying the B-Wing doesn't have problems, it's just that it is a different beast entirely. But yes for 3 dice on high hull, I think the gunship is better than say blues. 

4

I totally agree with your points. Sorry I didn't mention this earlier but I was comparing generics to generics in my post. 

On Bwing, if we compare Bwing and Auzituck in a 4 v 4 match, Auzituck could easily lose due to FCS on B-wing. However, given the state of current meta reinforce action is probably the much needed help for heavy fighters.

On U-Wing, I also agree that it can be a decent jouster. But you need 4 of them to be effective. The generic could be a 25pt filler in any rebel lists, but without the K-turn I'd rather take B-wing over the extra agility.

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3 hours ago, UnitOmega said:

That said... The Gunship might hold some benefit to the U. It has two crew and a system slot. You could load it with FCS and Wookiee commandos for pretty cheap, that's a lot of dice mods on 3 red dice. 

The Wookiee ship only has two crew slots. The generic doesn't have anything else on it's upgrade bar.

The modification from Wookiee Commandos doesn't really stack with target locks very well. The Commandos allow you to reroll eyeballs. 

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The Auzituck has the best of both the B-wing and the U-wing, in that is is small base and has better than 2 agility with the reinforce action. 2 crew trumps the system slot in a few ways. For one, the gunship can equip C-3P0 and R2-D2, then reinforce for a 31 point ship capable of blocking a bare minimum of 3 damage a round. 

I think the 4v4 direct comparison is going to go ultimately in the U-wing's favour, simply because the B-wing can't k-turn beyond them. However, the Auzituck no doubt has some strong ace synergies that B-wings don't, and U-wing aces are a joke. Overall, the Auzituck is just another addition to the slightly below curve Rebel AGI 1 ships. When push comes to shove, an Interceptor will demolish them all.

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Mind if I propose some good or at least interesting crew for the gunship? Jyn erso (with experimental interface). Baze Malbus. The 180 Arc is what these have been waiting for... funnily enough, they are found in the uwing.

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20 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

I'm expecting the Wookiee gunship to have a horrible dial. With its statline, a 180 degree arc, and the reinforce acton, it could almost have the dial from a HWK and still see play.

 

Yes. 180 on a small ship is a bliss. as long as any of the hard turns are white it's good enough.

Which is why I was wondering if U-Wing could have been a hit had FFG released it with 180 arcs...the no K-turn part would be fine if this was the case. The pivot title would be amazing paired with the 180 deg arc.

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2 hours ago, Grivoire said:

That reminds me...didn't Bistan provided covering fire from inside U-Wing? Shouldn't they have 180 arc instead?

R1 got partly new-filmed and was according to hearsay a total clip/paste-fest. We do not know what material FFG got to see. The TFA releases from FFG are horrible as well. They probably just do not get enought right information beforehand (and the FFG waves have a long development phase) cause Disney fears leaks too much.

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3 hours ago, Grivoire said:

Slap engine upgrade on all the large, hard to maneuver ships and they're still in aces' firing arcs at their desired form of donut hole.

That's when you have the rest of your list attack everyone who attacks the u wing.

overall, engine upgrade helps to disengage and turn back into battle. Obviously it's not competitive, but it is fun.

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I'd've really liked to see the U Wing title work differently - when you perform a stop you can close your wings to flip 180, and they have to be closed until after you complete your next manoeuvre.  So you don't telegraph, but you still end up with weakened defences for the round you turn.

That simple change might make the U Wing a bit more usable.

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its interesting how every moderately durable ship with 1agi is compared to the bwing.

Wookiez isnt a bwing. Its statline is the only similarity, as i highly doubt it will have a slow speed flippy-move if one at all given its design. It ONLY has mods and 2 crew access (unless a hidden title gave it more), while the bwing has quite a wide array of options (issue is back in the day he paid for those options even if you didnt use them so hes overpriced in most cases).

Reinforce alone will make Wookiez a vastly better jouster than the Bwing. The mere presence of an auto-evade tends to deter people from shooting something with hp, even if its only 1. This ship will stick around much longer than the bwing can both because of reinforce and "im not hitting that its got auto evades" mentality. Unless you get behind it or you can deny dice mods this ship is going to be really tough to crack especially with certain crew combos.

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I mean, it does continue the trend of pretty boring cards for the Rebels.

People complained Rebels haven't really gotten anything good or new or exciting in the past few waves.  HotR was a total dud, especially for the T70.  Rey (pilot and crew) is the only thing seeing any sort of play, and isn't having much competitive success.  The U-Wing was an utter flop, and people complained how it was so similar to the B-Wing/E2 which has been dead in the water for waves.   And now Rebels are getting this thing, which is awfully **** close to the U-Wing and the B-Wing.  So either it'll be dead in the water too, like them, or (and perhaps worse) it will be viable and will totally obsolete those two ships.

Also weird that a ship with such a small model has two crew slots.

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy

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Just now, Derpzilla88 said:

The Rebels tend to frown on opening the side doors of a ship when you're in the middle of space.

We're talking about a world in which personal oxygen forcefields exist, and hangars are protected from space by them, I'm sure they could manage a door field.

I was really hoping for a door gunner crew for the U Wing which would give it side-arcs in exchange for crew slots.

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7 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

We're talking about a world in which personal oxygen forcefields exist, and hangars are protected from space by them, I'm sure they could manage a door field.

I was really hoping for a door gunner crew for the U Wing which would give it side-arcs in exchange for crew slots.

It certainly would have made the ship much more interesting in X-Wing.  No reason it couldn't have side-mounted sponsons for its door gunners that could be used during space combat, too.  If the door guns are capable of crippling an AT-AT, surely it could take down a starfighter (especially if a laser bow can snipe a TIE...ugh).

Also weird the Wookie Gunship has the 180, since its official entries describe it as having a bunch of front-locked weapons to make head-on assaults with it a bad idea.

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy

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