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Naboobo2000

2nd player power creep and it's balance.

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I've noticed since CC started that going second is really the advantage.  While going 1st gives one the ability to shoot and move, the objectives are extremely one-sided.

Boarding parties and the new Admiral feel like an attempt to balance 1st to 2nd players.

 

Thoughts?

Naboobo2000

 

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Well the base defense objectives are supposed to give all the advantage to second player. You're blowing up a base that reduces their income and you get victory points so you can win the game. 

The normal objectives might feel unbalanced since they were balanced for 400 point fleets, not 500. 

I haven't noticed any issues when I've played.

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Yeah, the Base Defense objectives are supposed to be very one-sided. The AOA also seems to favor the defender in many respects--though it really had to, because dropping ISDs pout of hyperspace as player 1 is filthy good.

As far as the regular objectives in both 400 and 500-point games, I haven't really noticed a significant disparity. Certainly player 2 is better than it has been, because there are just more objective options now... But I think that's more fixing the significant advantage that first player usually had for a while.

The other consideration is that, as the total percentage of your combat power represented by one activation decreases, the value of going first decreases. What I mean by this is, activating a 140-point ISD and 60 points of squadrons first is a bigger deal when it's half of your fleet than when it's only 2/5 of your fleet. So as the total fleet points increase, the value of going first tends to decrease.

Edited by Ardaedhel

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4 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

 

The other consideration is that, as the total percentage of your combat power represented by one activation decreases, the value of going first decreases. What I mean by this is, activating a 140-point ISD and 60 points of squadrons first is a bigger deal when it's half of your fleet than when it's only 2/5 of your fleet. So as the total fleet points increase, the value of going first tends to decrease.

Would you say, then, that value of being first player is lower for MSU-style fleets than for fleets centered around a large capital ship?

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Depends on the MSU. CR90 spam where you are only to activate 55 pts with that first turn doesn't benefit as much from it as say a Demo or Admonition where it's MSU with 1/4 of the pts jammed onto one base. Again, Ards point is that the benefit is directly proportional to the quantity of points you can activate with that first go. It doesn't matter if it's a 115 pt Admonition or naked ISD-I.

I feel at this point the game rewards people that go into a game with a plan, whether they are first or second. I think that it is in a really good spot.

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4 minutes ago, RobertK said:

Would you say, then, that value of being first player is lower for MSU-style fleets than for fleets centered around a large capital ship?

All else being equal, I do think that, yes.

However, you also have to consider the value of getting to see where the other guy is moving before you commit yourself; in particular, of course, the advantage of last/first, which is where the MSU generally makes its money.

But broadly speaking, between one fleet bringing 4x100-point ships and one fleet bringing 80/80/80/160, going first is more valuable for the latter.

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Thanks, you two. I've been thinking carefully lately about the value of being first player vs. second player and how that affects my bid. Although I'd mostly been considering specific fleets, looking at it more broadly gives me more context in evaluating them.

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