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Ardaedhel

NuLeia

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2 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

'tis entirely possible it will be possible to double everything up - its a very simple errata to add in the caveat to allow it...  And if that's intended, that'll be what happens.

If that happens (getting two tokens' effects) then she's waaaay undercosted!  She is the Reb Tarkin but as it was pointed out, she gives the player an automatic matching token.  Essentially, she provides a tremendous amount of flexibility at the cost of not performing another command (i.e. token effect) which isn't that much of a "fee".  

 

Think on this:  Extra token effect … Change speed by 3?  Activate another 2 squadrons?  Increase a 5 engineer point by 6?!  Reroll 2 dice after adding one?  

 

If the FAQ is in favor of her getting that extra token effect then my suspicion that the devs are a bunch of Reb lovers will be confirmed. :-)

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50 minutes ago, WGNF911 said:

Change speed by 3?

Entrapment Formation

Increase a

5 4 engineer point by 6 4?!

Rebels don't have a 5 eng ship.  Shields to Maximum, Redundant Shields, Redemption.

Reroll 2 dice after adding one?

OE, LS, DTT + CF token, etc.

Activate another 2 squadrons?

Got me there.

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10 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Entrapment Formation

 

 

Rebels don't have a 5 eng ship.  Shields to Maximum, Redundant Shields, Redemption.

 

 

OE, LS, DTT + CF token, etc.

 

 

Got me there.

Yeah, I didn't know about the engineering value, I don't fly Rebs haha.

 

 So yeah, everything you listed and the spoiled princess would be insane. 

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I was discussing it with my brother and I did as devil advocate against Leia being able of stack tokens and I think I understand what Dras and other said. Let me put as I understood:

1. I activate and reveal a command dial of whatever. I don't want the token as I already have a matching token so I declare I am going to resolve the command.

2. I resolve the command and I choose to spend the dial and the token so I am resolving the command spending a dial and a token.

3. As I am resolving a command using a dial I can use Leia so I may resolve the command (not the dial) as I was spending a dial and a token. But I am already resolving the command spending a dial and a token so in fact Leia gives me nothing. 

4. As I resolve a command spending a dial and and token I combine their effects.

I think the key is that "it resolve the command as" and not "the dial as". But maybe I am wrong. Anyway I think I finally understand the argument against stacking token's effect.

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One of the big things not to miss in this discussion is that Commander Leia does not give a token so any deliberations about actually having two tokens are neither here nor there for this specific instance. Anything that would trigger on getting a command token will not process on using Commander Leia (which I don't think there is any contention about.) 

Isn't "spending a command dial" specific of the three ways to resolve a command? If it were meant to include tokens or allow a token stacking resolution wouldn't it have just gone with "when that ships resolves a command?"

By forcing the dial you can't forgo the use of the liaisons or officers and mitigate having planned the "wrong" command by processing "two" tokens. Going with that RAI reading I'd think allowing to stack a held token with the Commander Leia effect wasn't what they were going for.  

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Parkdaddy said:

Imagine Yavaaris double tapping 4 squadrons....

yeah no

I was wondering when someone was going to say it. I was thinking "man that's broke" but then I thought to myself, "wait a minute hansel, haven't you been smoking peyote for six straight days? And couldn't some of this be in your head? And it was!" Because I can't decide if paying 38 points is worth double tapping 4 squadrons rather then saving 8 points and running aces that will never die, and knowing that Yavaris will be able to activate.

But then I was like, man, 4 squadrons with Yavaris...oh god. Sorry Sloane TIE Swarm, you won't be much missed.

The point I'm making is maybe that's why she's 38 points. Although my personal opinion on initial reading was that as you are being treated as you have already spent a token of that command as combined with the dial, then you wouldn't be able to another banked matching token. This was my conclusion based on my assuming it to be a different source of the same command and you may not resolve the same command more than once per round. I'm not super confident about that though.

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4 hours ago, Green Knight said:

Chances are Leia is costed relative to other token generators. How is her utility compared to Garm or Tarkin?

I suppose that depends on if she can use the banked matching token haha.  

 

I'm not sure Garm can be compared (apples and oranges to me) with the other two.  He is only 25 points though and if you're running a bunch or corvettes or flotillas, you're not getting much out of him.  

 

Tarkin is very similarly priced with a near identical effect but you've got to give that one token to all your ships.  So, if you needed that repair effect to save a raider and you already had that banked on your ISD, too bad, so sad.

 

Leia gives you that flexibility.  Now, if you can ALSO spend a banked token!  She's a bargain fo sho!  The more we discuss (command token rules aside) the less I see the FAQ allowing a banked token to be added to her effect.  But I'm Imp biased sooooo …

 

 

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I am guessing this will be FAQ'd sometime (next year) into the token effect cannot be stacked.

However, I can see that Leia is extremely expensive and renders most token passing abilities largely useless as compared to Tarkin, where they retain their utility.  It seems Tarkin is just better for the same points cost if Leia is both restricted to a single command resolution AND the tokens don't stack.

So in short, blarf.  That's about what I can conclude.  Thank you for others weighing in, it has given me some things to think about!

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5 minutes ago, DUR said:

I am guessing this will be FAQ'd sometime (next year) into the token effect cannot be stacked.

However, I can see that Leia is extremely expensive and renders most token passing abilities largely useless as compared to Tarkin, where they retain their utility.  It seems Tarkin is just better for the same points cost if Leia is both restricted to a single command resolution AND the tokens don't stack.

So in short, blarf.  That's about what I can conclude.  Thank you for others weighing in, it has given me some things to think about!

I don't see Tarking better.

Tarkin cannot adapt his bonus to each ship's requirements. What Leia does.

Leia cannot take advantage from several command resolution. What Tarkin does.

I see them pretty similar as Antilles vs Yularen. Same point cost. Similar effect with some advantages and disadvantages pretty equivalent. There are some things one can do and the other don't.

If Leia could stack tokens it was something that Tarkin cannot do without any equivalent advantage.

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I read it as;

spend your dial ( get that effect)

If you also have a token, spend that token and the effect of that token is the same as if it was activated via a command dial.

basically allows two different command dial uses, assuming you have tokens to spend.

As for doubling up on effects, many fleets use tarkin to activate a squadron command on top of a squadron command dial. No reason it can not be repeated here, with the added effect! Very powerful.

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The release of the Quasar, and specifically the "Pursuant" Title Card, seems to have answered the Commander Organa question.

Both pursuant and Organa use the same language.

Pursuant text:

"When you reveal a command other than a Icon Command Squadron command, you may discard this card to resolve a Icon Command Squadron. You treat this command as if you spent a Icon Command Squadrondial."

Commander Organa text:

"When a friendly ship resolves a command by spending a command dial, if it has not resolved another command this round, it may resolve that command as if it spent a matching command token. If it does, that ship may not resolve additional commands this round."

Analysis:

Obviously, the language "as if" used in Pursuant prevents you from resolving another command (i.e. the command revealed that isn't a squadron command), since you can only resolve one command dial per turn.

So yeah, if we read "as if" consistently, it would preclude stacking tokens with Commander L.

Edited by Warlord Zepnick

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15 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

The release of the Quasar, and specifically the "Pursuant" Title Card, seems to have answered the Commander Organa question.

Both pursuant and Organa use the same language.

Pursuant text:

"When you reveal a command other than a Icon Command Squadron command, you may discard this card to resolve a Icon Command Squadron. You treat this command as if you spent a Icon Command Squadrondial."

Commander Organa text:

"When a friendly ship resolves a command by spending a command dial, if it has not resolved another command this round, it may resolve that command as if it spent a matching command token. If it does, that ship may not resolve additional commands this round."

Analysis:

Obviously, the language "as if" used in Pursuant prevents you from resolving another command (i.e. the command revealed that isn't a squadron command), since you can only resolve one command dial per turn.

So yeah, if we read "as if" consistently, it would preclude stacking tokens with Commander L.

I don't see how that helps. 

Edit: Now I see what you are driving at. Although I actually read that as you would just get to use both dials on pursuant. I dont have the RRG handy is there somewhere that says you cant resolve two dials? Because we've never been able to before.

Edited by Madaghmire

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5 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

Just checked it and I found nothing that supports the idea that you cant resolve two dials. I think you are just wrong about Pursuant.

Essentially this argument is:

Nothing says you can't so you can. 

Anyway, Pursuant says, "treat this command..."

It's singular. No resolving two command dials in one turn with Pursuant. 

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11 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

Essentially this argument is:

Nothing says you can't so you can. 

Anyway, Pursuant says, "treat this command..."

It's singular. No resolving two command dials in one turn with Pursuant. 

Except there is plenty saying that you can resolve multiple commands in a turn. So there would have to be something specifying that resolution of mutilple dials is out of bounds.

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