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jonboyjon1990

Slight hope? - Battlelore mentioned at GAMA Trade show

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"What does Runewars the miniatures mean for the future of Battlelore?"

"Er...no comment"

In the past FFG have been pretty good about announcing the ends of games - all the GW stuff (I know that was because of the licence ending) but also things like the Cthulu LCG.

This was a good opportunity to say it was discontinued, but he didn't. Maybe it was just above his pay grade. Or maybe he knows there's more coming, but just can't talk about it.

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Pretty much confirmed what others inferred, i.e. BattleLore's future depends on how good (or how bad) the RuneWars game will sell. If they say BL is still alive, they can kill part of the RW audience; if they say BL is dead, but RW doesn't seel enough copies and they want to necro the BL line, they'd lose credibility. So, they are stalling.

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My biggest show stopper for RW is the miniature game positioning. I want a 2 player game which I can play with friends that are not as invested into it as I am. I was into Warhammer FB for a while, but I wouldn't like to go back to club gaming anytime soon.

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29 minutes ago, SpawnGarret said:

So, not buying into RW makes BL chances better? Understood :)

Gaahhhh! I'm so torn! On the one hand, BattleLore is such a better fit for my gaming lifestyle than Runewars. Like you said, it's so much easier to play with relatives who aren't as invested. I really want to get some elves to complete it!

On the other hand, Runewars looks so cool! The mechanics are fantastic and it incorporates some things BattleLore fans have wanted. For example, it has hero units and heroes can even join other units on the battlefield. It has the same basic mechanic of losing figures to represent health and the size of a unit has an impact on unit effectiveness, except that it impacts archers as well as melee units. It also has more of a focus on destroying figures, which, in my book was never a problem with BattleLore, but some people prefer it. The other big appeal for me is that I could see myself doing 4-player games of Runewars if I get a starter army for each faction, which could be useful when I have more than 2 players around. But then I have to ask myself, why not play Runewars the board game?

Why are decisions so hard?!

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My other issue is painting. BL looks okayish being unpainted - as one may argue it is quite abstract. RW miniatures are not even faction-colored - so painting is much more crucial there.

Right now I am in the middle of painting my complete Descent collection - and I don't think I am anywhere close to completion. Next in line - MBP (when it arrives from KS) with ALL the expansions. I am also pledging Rising Sun right now. And I got 2 more games from KS coming, where painting is less critical, but still.

I just don't feel I will have enough bandwidth to do the stuff. And then again - if it was just my army, that would have been okay. But as I'd rather play with friends&family, I will need to do all the armies.

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Not buying RW Miniature game was an easy decision for me.  90% of my gaming with my son and while we tried X-Wing and Armada he just doesn't like fiddling around with templates, measuring and so on.  He prefers picking up units and counting hexes.  While I was certainly open to both of those games I kind of agree with him.

Having said that, it's been said before that while, on the surface, both games are kind of similar (tactical skirmish level set in the Runebound universe) they're different enough to appeal to different crowds.  I hope this new RW does well but I'd like to think it's not at the cost of the game I love.  

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I will buy RW and I own BL.  I don't think that they will have a negative effect on one another, if anything I believe that BL's chances are better if RWs does well

The problem BL has is that it lives in the uncanny valley of miniatures games and boardgames.  It lacks what the consumers want in a miniatures game (larger figures, customizable armies of larger model count, more nuanced control and tactics), and also what boardgamers want (more complexity in interactions, multiple players)

I love the game, but it doesn't truly scratch either itch.

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Maybe, but it scratches a ton of other itches.

Also, it's worth noticing that FFG produces a gazillion games that are in the same valley as BattleLore, and they all sold rather well. Not to mention that the BT engine is the same as Memoir '44 (produced by another company, of course, but still) that is one heck of a top seller

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I really dont think RW and BL are all that similar other than universe. I hate hate hate hate Warhammer, and love BL, and Warhammer isn't that far off from RW. (by the way, did I mention I hate warhammer?)

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On 15/03/2017 at 10:07 AM, jonboyjon1990 said:

In the past FFG have been pretty good about announcing the ends of games - all the GW stuff (I know that was because of the licence ending) but also things like the Cthulu LCG.

Nope, FFG are awful at confirming the status of games. Did we ever get an answer to if arkham horror is still alive?

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On 3/19/2017 at 2:53 PM, mulletcheese said:

Nope, FFG are awful at confirming the status of games. Did we ever get an answer to if arkham horror is still alive?

They don't like to talk about anything really with the community, one of their shortcomings. I can go talk with the lead designer at Level99Games at any time I want about anything regarding his games, but FFG doesn't so much as post a release schedule.

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On 19/3/2017 at 7:53 PM, mulletcheese said:

Nope, FFG are awful at confirming the status of games. Did we ever get an answer to if arkham horror is still alive?

It's constantly reprinted and never went on the Holydays Sale, so, it's quite a different situation from BattleLore

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16 hours ago, Toenail said:

They don't like to talk about anything really with the community, one of their shortcomings.

Yeah and I really consider this behavior to be ridiculous and actually damaging for their own game lines. You watch their Q&A and they say "No comment" so much that I wonder why they don't just put a cardboard standee in front of the crowd with an audio loop. I understand that games can get delayed and therefore it's better to avoid being too specific about their releases... but this just makes no sense to me.

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2 hours ago, AlasDemigod said:

Yeah and I really consider this behavior to be ridiculous and actually damaging for their own game lines. You watch their Q&A and they say "No comment" so much that I wonder why they don't just put a cardboard standee in front of the crowd with an audio loop. I understand that games can get delayed and therefore it's better to avoid being too specific about their releases... but this just makes no sense to me.

because if they're in planning stages and not sure what they're going to do with the product.  RuneAge was taken of the product list, Battle lore and Runewars the board game have not.  So, something might still be part of the plan, and there may be no info because they haven't yet fully figured out what they're going to do.

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Call of cthulhu is "not available", battles of westeros is also "not available". Which is different than "out of stock".

FFG just say "no comment" or promise that the POD expansions are still going to happen (2 years and waiting).

But with CMON releasing their own game of thrones miniatures game and CoC getting a new Xbox game while the CoC label is disappearing from FFG products it seems obvious that FFG can no longer fully support those brands.

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On 19.03.2017 at 7:53 PM, mulletcheese said:

Nope, FFG are awful at confirming the status of games. Did we ever get an answer to if arkham horror is still alive?

What do you mean alive?

It is constantly reprinted and sells really well.

Also, game is alive when you play it, not when you buy another expansion.

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I love Battlelore, on of my favorit games or its my favorit. I played a lot of games with it in the last 1,5 year and I cannot wait to play with it again and again. But I'm tried on waiting and be without any communication. I wont buy RW. Too expensive and I have no time and skill for painting. So I made my choice, I will buy CMON A Song of Ice and Fire: Tabletop Miniatures Game. They make a clear communcation  I know what I can expect and I can check whats going on before its realese. I think that game wil be between Battlelore and RW. It will be a miniture game but each faction will have thier own color so its not needed to paint you can unbox and play. Its fast, easy and I think for a Game of Thrones fun its a must have...

If FFG will realese new content for Battlelore I will buy it without question but all of my money what goes to CMON it could go to FFG but it seams they are good without it. LCG makes enough profit...

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Surely, the writing is on the wall ...

- no product announced/released since October 2015

- no GenCon '16 events/announcements

- part of Christmas Sale '16 clearance

- dice pack OOP and not listed as awaiting reprint/at the printer

- no GenCon '17 events

BattleLore 2E has had an absolutely glacial support schedule, even by FFG's abysmal standards. But that can't explain a going-on-two-year silence.

The upshot is, BL2E is a relatively "complete" game. Yes, it would be wonderful to get Latari ... but it's still a very good game as-is. You can pick up everything (preferably on sale) for years of fun gaming.

I'm not sure if it is "too late" to release Latari for BL2E (although it arguably is too late) but the more pressing question would be, where would they fit into the manufacturing schedule? Especially considering FFG aggressively pushing out all four factions for RW TMG. It just seems like BL2E got lost in all the success. (I wouldn't be surprised if the BL2E Latari are already sitting on a shelf, at least in "first draft" form.)

I really don't think RW TMG doing well will mean anything good for BL2E. If RW TMG does really well then the obvious conclusion is to give it more support, leaving even less resources for BL2E.

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3 hours ago, mulletcheese said:

I guarantee that someone at gencon will ask FFG about battlelore elves, and FFG will avoid answering.

I wouldn't be surprised if elves turned up in battlelore command, just to troll us.

I would take that! Even having it for BattleLore: Command would be better than having no BattleLore elves at all.

Honestly, I don't think it's too late. It's not a living game, so it doesn't require a constant stream of releases to keep it "alive." As many players have remarked, it's a pretty complete game as it is, with years of enjoyment with all of the expansions. If we never see Latari Elves for BattleLore, I won't be surprised, but at the same time, if we do see Latari Elves in a year or two, that won't surprise me either. I can totally envision it happening.

Also, let me go on record here saying that I love Runewars: Miniatures Game. It is a very exciting system with tons of potential. It's expensive, but for years I've eyed GW's miniatures and just never felt the pull of the flavor enough to jump into those games or any other miniatures games company's systems. Having the Terrinoth IP as a miniatures game is exactly the kind of rank-and-file miniatures game I want to play. BUT! ... BattleLore: Second Edition is still the superior game for me. It has just the right amount of accessibility, rules complexity, aesthetic, card interactions, tactics, and game time. I would be very excited to "complete" my BattleLore collection with the Latari Elves, but even if I did, I'd still buy Runewars because, as I've said, I have been looking forward to trying a full-fledged hobby/miniatures game for some time. I embrace both systems fully.

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2 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

I would take that! Even having it for BattleLore: Command would be better than having no BattleLore elves at all.

Plus, having them in Command would mean custom units almost "official" that could be easily proxied in normal BattleLore

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Why might it be too late for BL2e elves?

We're talking about expanding a game that has had zero support for 22 months.  Reatilers seem to be letting the SKUs go OOS - this even includes FFG direct, although putting BL2e products on Christmas clearance doesn't seem to have moved them out, either. In other words, it stands to reason that those who want the product line largely already have it. And, of those, how many have also already moved on, discouraged by FFG's utter silence? Therefore, the built-in customer base for Latari expansion packs has likely been constantly shrinking and may now be too small to hedge against the risks of developing them, especially considering the expense of relatively detailed plastic miniatures.

I hope this analysis is incorrect.

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Yeah. Consider that, for release a whole new faction, they will be needing at least 12 months from when the alpha starts to the moment the game hits the shelves, it'll be a huge investment after a silence lasting 34 months (almost three years). At this point, it's not gonna happen.

It's a lot easier we see the system re-implemented in something different (new edition of Battles of Westeros, or same system set in the Star Wars or L5R IPs) rather than we see Latari arriving for BT. Plus, never, in FFG's history, a game resurrected from the Christmas sale

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