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Muelmuel

External Racks vs Expanded Launchers

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For me it's a simple choice.  I only use cards from Rebel expansions for my fleets.  Expanded Launchers is a card i have always coveted, but now that External Racks is coming, they get the nod.  I'll probably stick with Rapid Reloads on my MC-30's, but External Racks to me screams Assault Peltas, which admittedly, could use some love.

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4 minutes ago, pt106 said:

A good analysis, however it misses one point - ER can be used in any arc, so it benefits brawler ships that have some relatively weak arcs (and in the case of double arc can allow to choose between two different strategies of putting pressure on defence tokens)

It's true. Also worth noting: you get to choose whether to burn these after seeing your initial roll. Threw an accuracy for that brace? Pile it on! Trying to force decisions? Play the odds!

ER is a great filler, but it's not going to replace the crit effects in most cases.

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2 hours ago, Snipafist said:

Your dedicated black dice ships are going to still want more consistently-useful ordnance upgrades like Assault Proton Torpedoes or Expanded Launchers. Your cheapo corvettes and "might get black dice one turn" ships like Peltas and VSD-Is are going to love External Racks.

I'm not so sure any more, there are now a number of ways to prevent crits which make APTs not the sure thing they once were. Also with expanded launchers you are going to need to be very secure in your ability to get your front arc in black range 3-4 time to make ELs worth it against ERs. MC30s are just unlikely to get lots of front arcs on target, after your first double arc MC30s will be working their behinds off to get in a second side shot, trying for a front arc as well. Raiders are just to squishy for EL even if some brave souls do run them this way. 

Because most small ships are so cost sensitive and MC30s are side arc focused ( beyond your first round of shooting double arc)  I'm think ERs will be the go to on everything apart from glads (which have the ability to keep that front arc on target) 

although a fleet with an admiral giving extra clicks may still have a wider place for ELs....

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17 minutes ago, Jondavies72 said:

I'm not so sure any more, there are now a number of ways to prevent crits which make APTs not the sure thing they once were. Also with expanded launchers you are going to need to be very secure in your ability to get your front arc in black range 3-4 time to make ELs worth it against ERs. MC30s are just unlikely to get lots of front arcs on target, after your first double arc MC30s will be working their behinds off to get in a second side shot, trying for a front arc as well. Raiders are just to squishy for EL even if some brave souls do run them this way. 

Because most small ships are so cost sensitive and MC30s are side arc focused ( beyond your first round of shooting double arc)  I'm think ERs will be the go to on everything apart from glads (which have the ability to keep that front arc on target) 

although a fleet with an admiral giving extra clicks may still have a wider place for ELs....

You forget (or didn't mention) Rapid Reload. With broadside centered ships like the MC30s, it's more likely that they'd be used consistently, and so eventually prove more useful then ER.

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i find it difficult to get more than 1 shot anyway with black die ships unless i end up in a bumper-ship situation both ways. I love APTs simply adding a faceup card, but i could see these being great too. Kinda wish i could slap it on some ships that didnt have black dice to begin with but afaik nothing has that slot w/o having black dice.

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34 minutes ago, NobodyInParticular said:

You forget (or didn't mention) Rapid Reload. With broadside centered ships like the MC30s, it's more likely that they'd be used consistently, and so eventually prove more useful then ER.

It is very rare for RR to be worth the cost over APT or ACM. Even if you could guarantee shots out of both side arcs, you're paying more to average the same added damage as APT, it's susceptible to defense tokens, and it does not go directly on the hull.

Most of the time, though, you only get to bring one side or the other to bear, particularly if you're focus-firing, which means your efficiency plummets.

If you frequently encounter defensive rerolls, RR pulls roughly even with the crit effects in value. Otherwise, it's unfortunately just worse.

Edited by Ardaedhel

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1 minute ago, Ardaedhel said:

It is very rare for RR to be worth the cost over APT or ACM. Even if you could guarantee shots out of both side arcs, you're paying more to average the same added damage as APT, it's susceptible to defense tokens, and it does not go directly on the hull.

Most of the time, though, you only get to bring one side or the other to bear, particularly if you're focus-firing, which means your efficiency plummets.

If you frequently encounter defensive rerolls, RR pulls roughly even with the crit effects in value. Otherwise, it's unfortunately just worse.

I know that, never fear. I was under the impression that the poster to whom I was responding was mentioning cards other than those that relied on crits, because of the advent of cards such as DCO, which reduced the effectiveness of APTs and ACMs. He suggested EL would be too difficult to use on most ships, since they either preferred side-arcs or would have difficulty maintaining a consitent front arc on an enemy, and thus he believed that ER would be the go-to default of the future.

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12 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

It is very rare for RR to be worth the cost over APT or ACM. Even if you could guarantee shots out of both side arcs, you're paying more to average the same added damage as APT, it's susceptible to defense tokens, and it does not go directly on the hull.

Most of the time, though, you only get to bring one side or the other to bear, particularly if you're focus-firing, which means your efficiency plummets.

If you frequently encounter defensive rerolls, RR pulls roughly even with the crit effects in value. Otherwise, it's unfortunately just worse.

Good points. I suppose to get proper value out of Rapid Reload you'd have to fly directly between two enemy ships, and most of the ships that might consider it aren't durable enough to survive that little adventure. Assault Concussion Missiles seem like the best overall damage option, since they rapidly wear down shields and effectively disable Redirect tokens. They also make it ineffective to reposition because they've been chewing through the shields of whichever hull zone is now the target. 

This all goes out the window if you're using X17s, though. Since Redirect already doesn't work against you, you may as well add some free faceup damage cards from Assault Proton Torpedoes. This would open them up to move shields with Engineering commands but if they're doing that they aren't removing damage cards or recovering shields, so it's still profit. 

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I love me some ACM. Significantly better damage throughput in most situations than APT.

But I still use APT in most cases.

The reason is one-shots. APT contributes to my ability to one-shot small ships, and ACM doesn't (it breaks even with APT against CR90's if I don't have an acc, but that's about it). That one-shot threat is such a huge deal that, for me, it's worth taking a hit to overall throughput for it.

Edited by Ardaedhel

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My current favourite ship build is:

Raider 1, Expanded Lauchers, Sensor Team (62)

I can't wait for this card. 

Knocking 10 points off the cost without sacrificing its ability to consistently kill flotillas and small small ships is massive.  (Irregardless of Admiral)

I'll say it again: I can't wait for this card.

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

I love me some ACM. Significantly better damage throughput in most situations than APT.

But I still use APT in most cases.

The reason is one-shots. APT contributes to my ability to one-shot small ships, and ACM doesn't (it breaks even with APT against CR90's if I don't have an acc, but that's about it). That one-shot threat is such a huge deal that, for me, it's worth taking a hit to overall throughput for it.

I agree with this. H9/APT/OE MC30s should always one shot flotillas, CR90s and Raiders. I wish Glads could take H9. Then I'd run Glad II and one shot everything myself.

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3 minutes ago, Libero03 said:

It would be great if we could see what we are talking about in the first post. OP, please add this if you can.

swm27-external-racks.png      VS     latest?cb=20150117195544

Not everyone has an account on the various website to add pics like Imgur. And a quick google search will bring these up for people who are curious. Or they can ask. It's not like we are mean to people who don't know what upgrades we are talking about.

I agree it's nice to have references when discussing things, but it's not needed all the time. Can't expect us to upload a pic every time we reference another card.

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1 hour ago, Green Knight said:

They are awesome.

But they are 7 pts.

So APT.

Sad really.

For 2 points I think it's worth the upgrade, provided I don't need to cut something else. Both options are very good but the ability to tear through shields so much faster is worth two points. I've been using APTs a bit more lately to remind myself that the damage deck in Armada doesn't **** around, but I've seen how scared people are of getting near a ship with ACMs when they have low shields and they're right to be afraid. Absolutely shredded a Home One not long ago because he had been using Redirect to a lot and had barely any shields when Demolisher got in close. 

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43 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Not everyone has an account on the various website to add pics like Imgur. And a quick google search will bring these up for people who are curious. Or they can ask. It's not like we are mean to people who don't know what upgrades we are talking about.

I agree it's nice to have references when discussing things, but it's not needed all the time. Can't expect us to upload a pic every time we reference another card.

Fyi, you can grab the link directly from the announcement article. Which is what I generally do.

Pretty much, if it's Googleable, you can post the picture here.

Edit: in fact, that's what Libero did. His ER is from the article and his ExL is from the Armada wiki.

Edited by Ardaedhel

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1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

Not everyone has an account on the various website to add pics like Imgur. And a quick google search will bring these up for people who are curious. Or they can ask. It's not like we are mean to people who don't know what upgrades we are talking about.

I agree it's nice to have references when discussing things, but it's not needed all the time. Can't expect us to upload a pic every time we reference another card.

If you paste the link to the image in the editor as text, it will automatically display it in the post.

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6 minutes ago, Valca said:

If you paste the link to the image in the editor as text, it will automatically display it in the post.

Is this a new feature? It always said it was a formatting issue when I tried to paste it with the picture inserter button so I got an Imgur account.

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9 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Is this a new feature? It always said it was a formatting issue when I tried to paste it with the picture inserter button so I got an Imgur account.

I posted the picture of the original quasar yesterday in a thread. Didn't use a button, just literally pasted the text into the editor and clicked submit.  Didn't expect it to display, but it did.

Edited by Valca

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14 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Is this a new feature? It always said it was a formatting issue when I tried to paste it with the picture inserter button so I got an Imgur account.

It automatically formatting it for you is a new feature, but you were always able to use [ Img ] [ /Img ] tags to insert links to image files.

With images from the Armada wiki specifically, though, you have to remove a bunch of garbage at the end of the link to make it work. Just delete everything after the file extension (.jpg, .png, whatever).

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20 minutes ago, Valca said:

I posted the picture of the original quasar yesterday in a thread. Didn't use a button, just literally pasted the text into the editor and clicked submit.  Didn't expect it to display, but it did.

 

13 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

It automatically formatting it for you is a new feature, but you were always able to use [ Img ] [ /Img ] tags to insert links to image files.

With images from the Armada wiki specifically, though, you have to remove a bunch of garbage at the end of the link to make it work. Just delete everything after the file extension (.jpg, .png, whatever).

Wow that is amazing. I no longer have to go through the horrible process of saving pics and uploading them all the time.

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I might observe that, properly setup, this gives you the ability to put some serious pain on a named squadron.

Raider I, Agent Kallus, External Racks, Ordnance Experts. 5 black Dice, with reroll. I might use that just to encourage the enemy to hang on to his brace or scatter tokens, on the grounds that they might be needed, badly.

Alternately, any ship with Kalus, QLT and External Racks. One blue, one black. Get that accuracy, pop the ER for two more blacks. Tap Ordnance Experts for the reroll.

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On the subject of referencing cards it would be terrific if it worked like some of the MtG sites do where typing Expanded Launchers puts a "hover over link" in your post. The reader can then put their cursor on the text and see the card being referenced. That feature would make a great many forum posts much easier both here and in X-wing. I'd guess also in Imperial Assault and many of the other games. 

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