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Muelmuel

External Racks vs Expanded Launchers

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Exactly the topic. What are the pros/cons and the trade off of each? How will you use them now?

I'll start first. With ER i can easily drop one in any ordanance slot ship(cheap 3 points) and wreck havoc once with a one-time spike, great for hit-and-run. For me to benefit more from EL it must be able to proc more than once, but even then is it worth the 10 points extra? Only a triple tap demo comes to mind atm

Edited by Muelmuel

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ER costs 1.5 points per black dice roll, to match this cost per die roll you would need to trigger EL four times, which is unlikely in a game. Add in the facts that ER can be used on any facing and against fighters the only place I can see EL being the more cost effective option is is high cost highly moble ships that you are planning to get 3-4 front arch shots on, so Demo for EL, ER for everything else.

 

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I know I'm running the risk of taking us off topic, but it seems an appropriate place to have the discussion. This opens up the entire ordnance discussion, doesn't it? When do you run ER vs APT for example? ER is fantastic, enough so that I don't expect to use EL any time soon. APTs have been my favorite for a while, it's going to take a lot of testing and even more theory crafting for me to work out when to take each one.

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Just now, Snipafist said:

Your dedicated black dice ships are going to still want more consistently-useful ordnance upgrades like Assault Proton Torpedoes or Expanded Launchers. Your cheapo corvettes and "might get black dice one turn" ships like Peltas and VSD-Is are going to love External Racks.

I'm thinking Hammerheads and Raiders with ER, and Glads and MC30s with APT since they can stick around longer.

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2 hours ago, Green Knight said:

Vader Raiders.

Why Vader?  You can already take Ordnance experts for the rerolls on Raiders for only 4 points and get a more consistently useful, and cheaper,admiral instead.

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3 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

Vader Raiders with External Racks?

Spend a lousy Evade to reroll your 2 blues/5 blacks or 3 blues/4 blacks?

Sounds legit to me. But then again I think Vader is a strong admiral (if a little pricey).

ER is at close range right? So Evade ain't doing nothin anyway unless it's MM.

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29 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

ER is at close range right? So Evade ain't doing nothin anyway unless it's MM.

When Raider make an attack run, they end up in black range. There could be another enemy ship shooting at them from afar, but more often than not they have evades to spend (to trigger vader). It's an oft overlooked fact. Also, too few ppl play/have played Vader :)

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8 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

When Raider make an attack run, they end up in black range. There could be another enemy ship shooting at them from afar, but more often than not they have evades to spend (to trigger vader). It's an oft overlooked fact. Also, too few ppl play/have played Vader :)

Oohhhh you're referring to using the Evades to trigger Vader. Gotcha.

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2 hours ago, IronNerd said:

I know I'm running the risk of taking us off topic, but it seems an appropriate place to have the discussion. This opens up the entire ordnance discussion, doesn't it? When do you run ER vs APT for example? ER is fantastic, enough so that I don't expect to use EL any time soon. APTs have been my favorite for a while, it's going to take a lot of testing and even more theory crafting for me to work out when to take each one.

For me it's almost always the crit missiles, based mainly on how many points I have. I love Assault Concussion Missiles because they rapidly make Redirect tokens useless, but I'm starting to see the power in periodically slapping a faceup card on the target. I especially like that against bigger ships, since it takes longer for them to bring up enough Engineering commands to fix the damage and by then the shields are down. Expanded Launchers have done work on my Victory Is but at that point they're more effective as a big cone of "don't be here" than as an actual weapon. Nobody in their right mind gets near five black dice if they can help it. They usually think they can handle the critical effects, only to realize they can't. Also I freaking love Screed so crit effects are a big deal to me. 

 

Anyway Expanded Racks are great if you don't expect to get many close range attacks. Three points for two more black dice is a great bargain, provided you aren't attacking enough to justify Rapid Reload. This will probably be a very, very popular filler upgrade. It seems more valuable than three points towards initiative. 

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1 minute ago, Hockeyzombie said:

For me it's almost always the crit missiles, based mainly on how many points I have. I love Assault Concussion Missiles because they rapidly make Redirect tokens useless, but I'm starting to see the power in periodically slapping a faceup card on the target. I especially like that against bigger ships, since it takes longer for them to bring up enough Engineering commands to fix the damage and by then the shields are down. Expanded Launchers have done work on my Victory Is but at that point they're more effective as a big cone of "don't be here" than as an actual weapon. Nobody in their right mind gets near five black dice if they can help it. They usually think they can handle the critical effects, only to realize they can't. Also I freaking love Screed so crit effects are a big deal to me. 

 

Anyway Expanded Racks are great if you don't expect to get many close range attacks. Three points for two more black dice is a great bargain, provided you aren't attacking enough to justify Rapid Reload. This will probably be a very, very popular filler upgrade. It seems more valuable than three points towards initiative. 

ER vs APTs feels like an APTs vs ACMs comparison.  APTs give you +1 damage to hull.  ACMs give you +2 damage, but potentially only against shields.  ERs give you +2 damage, statistically, but only once.

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ER vs APT is likely to come down to dedicated black dice brawlers vs attack of opportunity ships. The two big deciders that I see are 1) whether you're getting sustained shots at close, and 2) whether you're getting rerolls on your blacks. For most iterations of dedicated, fast black-throwers, APT and ACM will still significantly outperform ER.

If you don't have OE and only expect to get one shot per game, though, the net benefit is pretty comparable, and ER is cheaper.

The other consideration, of course, is the antisquadron capability of ER, which is a bit harder to valuate.  I expect that that will be one of those edge applications that not many build for, and then you can surprise a less savvy opponent by leveraging a low-threat antiship tool against a squadron. I expect a lot of "wait, how did you do that? Let me see that card..." moments with ER.

Edited by Ardaedhel

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4 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

ER vs APT is likely to come down to dedicated black dice brawlers vs attack of opportunity ships. The two big deciders that I see are 1) whether you're getting sustained shots at close, and 2) whether you're getting rerolls on your blacks. For most iterations of dedicated, fast black-throwers, APT and ACM will still significantly outperform ER.

If you don't have OE and only expect to get one shot per game, though, the net benefit is pretty comparable, and ER is cheaper.

The other consideration, of course, is the antisquadron capability of ER, which is a bit harder to valuate.  I expect that that will be one of those edge applications that not many build for, and then you can surprise a less savvy opponent by leveraging a low-threat antiship tool against a squadron. I expect a lot of "wait, how did you do that? Let me see that card..." moments with ER.

A good analysis, however it misses one point - ER can be used in any arc, so it benefits brawler ships that have some relatively weak arcs (and in the case of double arc can allow to choose between two different strategies of putting pressure on defence tokens)

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