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Given that the Falcon was haphazardly modified by Han, who is the only person in the galaxy (until Rey) who understands how it's put together, don't be too harsh on poor Chewie. He's doing the best anyone can with that hunk of (fast) junk. Even Han couldn't explain why things weren't working at times, and it's his ship and his mods, so Chewie beating on the ship doesn't mean anything.

As for Chewie putting Threepio's head on backwards, there's two possible explanations other than incompetence. One is that after having the head torn off violently, Chewie put it back on the only way it could be made to work, using the tools that he had at the time. The other explanation is that he did it deliberately. Threepio is annoying.

Edited by ShadoWarrior

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31 minutes ago, Edgookin said:

He may have been doing mechanics, but I don't think he was very good at it.  Han ripped into him for putting things together wrong.  He assembled 3PO backwards.  Han was fixing the hyperdrive with Chewie assisting in the escape from Hoth.  In the escape from cloud city, he gets so frustrated, he starts beating on the falcon with a spanner.  Generally, any time you see him doing mechanical, he was either under Han's supervision, or he got it wrong.

Actually, didn't Chewie hand the wrong tool to Han?  "No, the HYDROspanner!"

Either way, Chewie definitely had the role of ship mechanic, he just may not have had any Ranks in the skill, Intelligence, or Talents to back that up.  Which leads to some funny moments! :lol:

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1 hour ago, Benjan Meruna said:

Actually, didn't Chewie hand the wrong tool to Han?  "No, the HYDROspanner!"

Han asked him to bring him the hydrospanners; I don't believe Chewie handed him the wrong thing.  What he DID do, however, was put the bin of hydrospanners too close to the edge of the crawlspace which Han was working in.  : )

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I do swear that Han said something along the lines of "No, the X!"  and Chewie just got the whole **** toolbox because he's 200 years old and knows that Han's just gonna ask him for something else, so might as well get the whole **** box.

Putting it too close was just an accident.  Probably.

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A thought... to set AutoFire apart from Linked...

When you get the required 1Advantage, perhaps allow the shooter to use that to make ANOTHER roll, with another increase in difficulty (or a setback), to represent the recoil.

Get another 2 Advantage, another roll, etc etc. The difficulty increasing each time.

Say you start with a Difficulty of 2+1 for Auto Fire. Thats 3 Purples.

Second shot is 4 Purples.

Third is 5 Purples.

Fourth is Impossible (Destiny point)... as the gun recoils so hard you're shooting the birds.

Thats a natural limit of 4 hits.

With the caveat, that only the first shots Advantage can be spent on anything OTHER than activating AutoFire, and subsequent shots cannot inflict a Crit/Strain Regain/etc

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31 minutes ago, GandofGand said:

It's A possibility, but that's actually pretty much I said earlier was not a great option as its additional rolls and slows combat down too much.  

I've not read the entire thread, so sorry if I repeated your original idea.

 

I have noticed that AutoFire SPECIFIES hitting an Additional TARGET, rather than additional HITS.

Which does make it a drastic difference to Linked.... not sure how it would effect things, but it keeps the wheels turning in my head..

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No worries, you added more depth to my version anyway 8) 

I'm not sure if its in the Autofire Description (No books with me) but We always ruled it that you had to Pick the targets before rolling the dice. 

And I tend to to agree the Autofire rules aren't well thought-out, but any system which uses non-standard dice combined with a "Dramatic" system  tends to lend itself to some problems. 

I am also not a big fan anything that requires one to hope for a random roll to allow you to trigger an effect that is built into the weapon. 

"I pull the trigger on my Auto-blaster but only one round goes out..." What, did we forget to set it ti full-auto? Also, no option for Burst fire...*shrug* 

The new version of Mutant Chronicles is the same way...have to roll special dice for effect and the same die determines if you do 1 or 2 points of extra damage...but the effect roll is a 6 and doesn't do any extra damage....weird-ass...8P 

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1 minute ago, GandofGand said:

I am also not a big fan anything that requires one to hope for a random roll to allow you to trigger an effect that is built into the weapon. 

"I pull the trigger on my Auto-blaster but only one round goes out..." What, did we forget to set it ti full-auto? Also, no option for Burst fire...*shrug* 

The new version of Mutant Chronicles is the same way...have to roll special dice for effect and the same die determines if you do 1 or 2 points of extra damage...but the effect roll is a 6 and doesn't do any extra damage....weird-ass...8P 

I think its less a case of "Hoping for a random result to trigger" the effect... and more a narrative "Its firing rapidly... you need the Advantage to CONTROL the weapon, and strafe additional targets.

The weapon is always firing at full auto, but you need to control the recoil before you can bring the weapon to bare on more targets.. thats the advantage.

No Advantage, the weapons recoil throws you right off target, and you fail to hit anything else as you struggle with the weapons recoil.

 

Narrative :)

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That actually works for me, thanks!  

On a side Note I am working up a Gambler/Gunslinger and was thinking of taking on of the afore-mentioned Autofire pistols with the Paired Mod, Superior Customization and maybe Electronci Sight to do some serious hosing but what would be the modifiers for that? 

Does each Weapon adds 1 Difficulty each for Autofire? or does the Autofire Difficulty increase only count once? This is in addition to the increase for Dual-wielding...

So one way it would be +3 Difficulty (Auto x2 and Dual), other its only +2 (Auto x1 and Dual)? 

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1 hour ago, GandofGand said:

No worries, you added more depth to my version anyway 8) 

I'm not sure if its in the Autofire Description (No books with me) but We always ruled it that you had to Pick the targets before rolling the dice. 

And I tend to to agree the Autofire rules aren't well thought-out, but any system which uses non-standard dice combined with a "Dramatic" system  tends to lend itself to some problems. 

I am also not a big fan anything that requires one to hope for a random roll to allow you to trigger an effect that is built into the weapon. 

"I pull the trigger on my Auto-blaster but only one round goes out..." What, did we forget to set it ti full-auto? Also, no option for Burst fire...*shrug* 

The new version of Mutant Chronicles is the same way...have to roll special dice for effect and the same die determines if you do 1 or 2 points of extra damage...but the effect roll is a 6 and doesn't do any extra damage....weird-ass...8P 

You indeed have to pick targets before you rule, because the hardest target is used for the difficulty of the check. 

From the narrative perspective you "always" fire full auto (expect when you intentionally don't), the advantages just rule how many hits you land, which is still weirdly detached from the basic success of the roll and gets even weirdly as all the extra damage for precision aiming gets applied to all extra hits. All the weapon qualities are rather odd based on that. 

If you want something simple to adjust all autofire weapons, make the players spend two success instead of two advantages per extra hit. Do the same for two-weapon combat. 

Edited by SEApocalypse

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58 minutes ago, GandofGand said:

That actually works for me, thanks! 

On a side Note I am working up a Gambler/Gunslinger and was thinking of taking on of the afore-mentioned Autofire pistols with the Paired Mod, Superior Customization and maybe Electronci Sight to do some serious hosing but what would be the modifiers for that? 

Does each Weapon adds 1 Difficulty each for Autofire? or does the Autofire Difficulty increase only count once? This is in addition to the increase for Dual-wielding...

So one way it would be +3 Difficulty (Auto x2 and Dual), other its only +2 (Auto x1 and Dual)? 

Very welcome.

 

I am not sure, but the book doesnt specify that things stack to my knowledge.

If it did, you would be increasing Difficulty by .. 3 Dice. Turning a 2 purple (Average) roll into a 5 Purple roll.

Otherwise, anything beyond a normal Average roll (So, Long Range) would become "Formidable" and thats only just over Medium range...

 

You could argue both sides of course, a shot at Long Range with AutoFire duel pistols... OK that could be formidable difficulty... but it could also slow down combat a lot... and combat in this is meant to be fast and action packed, not slow... but if you are trying to use an AutoFire pistol in each hand, are you expecting to hit alot? or just asking to be a hedgehog of random shots that no one wants to get anywhere near?

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40 minutes ago, GandofGand said:

That actually works for me, thanks!  

On a side Note I am working up a Gambler/Gunslinger and was thinking of taking on of the afore-mentioned Autofire pistols with the Paired Mod, Superior Customization and maybe Electronci Sight to do some serious hosing but what would be the modifiers for that? 

Does each Weapon adds 1 Difficulty each for Autofire? or does the Autofire Difficulty increase only count once? This is in addition to the increase for Dual-wielding...

So one way it would be +3 Difficulty (Auto x2 and Dual), other its only +2 (Auto x1 and Dual)? 

Two pistols with autofire might be something in the FAQ, minimum is two increases in difficulty, but imho you could read the rules as well as three increases if you really want to fire both weapons with autofire, which should never be the case as it makes no sense mechanically.

So basically, increase difficulty by two. Two linked pistoles makes sense to activate link on both separately, but with two autofire weapons you can literally just activate autofire on your first weapon always and take just the cheap extra hit from the second weapon which pays for itself via banta-eye. 

Though, keep in mind the intimidator has only two hardpoints, so it is a bad weapon to use the paired attachment as you want superior and banta eye normally and usually should not mind to add something for extra damage and pierce on top, before considering adding paired. Narratively wielding two autofire pistoles is cool, mechanically it freaking does not add anything. Besides, especially on a gunslinger I would consider using two HH-50 instead. You get a lot more penetration power with the HH-50 and 4 hits in one action is pretty solid especially if you have splitfire as gunslinger. And as a bonus those HH-50 are not restricted and come with vicious 1 instead of inaccurate 1. Only downside is the short instead of medium range. 

 

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3 hours ago, RebelDave said:

A thought... to set AutoFire apart from Linked...

When you get the required 1Advantage, perhaps allow the shooter to use that to make ANOTHER roll, with another increase in difficulty (or a setback), to represent the recoil.

Get another 2 Advantage, another roll, etc etc. The difficulty increasing each time.

Say you start with a Difficulty of 2+1 for Auto Fire. Thats 3 Purples.

Second shot is 4 Purples.

Third is 5 Purples.

Fourth is Impossible (Destiny point)... as the gun recoils so hard you're shooting the birds.

Thats a natural limit of 4 hits.

With the caveat, that only the first shots Advantage can be spent on anything OTHER than activating AutoFire, and subsequent shots cannot inflict a Crit/Strain Regain/etc

Which just makes it a slightly different but better unmatched devastation (which has a similar mechanic but more limitations on it). Given that a jury rigged auto fire heavy can do awesome damage with autofire , such that it is actually easier to use and better than a signature ability just shows how powerful it is , the easiest solution is to set the advantage cost to three , which still allows jury rigged to bring it down to 2, still allows someone who is good to reasonably get off a second hit and a real expert to get maybe 3 or 4 hits tops, without allowing for someone to get 6 hits in one combat check. All this being said I managed to put together a build with not a huge amount more than knight level xp that can punch you for 19 dmg + success (qnd no this isnt a martial artist build that needs to pay strain on the hit either). Similarly you can put together a reasonable sniper that can hit for a large amount of base damage. It's the huge number of advantages that are possible that make auto fire so lethal increasing the activation to 3 would at least halve the number of activations.

Edited by syrath

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1 minute ago, syrath said:

Which just makes it a slightly different but better unmatched devastation (which has a similar mechanic but more limitations on it). Given that a jury rigged auto fire heavy can do awesome damage with autofire , such that it is actually easier to use and better than a signature ability just shows how powerful it is , the easiest solution is to set the advantage cost to three , which still allows jury rigged to bring it down to 2, still allows someone who is good to reasonably get off a second hit, without allowing for someone to get 6 hits in one combat check. All this being said I managed to put together a build with not a huge amount more than knight level xp that can punch you for 19 dmg + success (qnd no this isnt a martial artist build that needs to pay strain on the hit either). Similarly you can put together a reasonable sniper that can hit for a large amount of base damage. It's the huge number of advantages that are possible that make auto fire so lethal increasing the activation to 3 would at least halve the number of activations.

Couldnt give you any real world examples, as ive not been able to play so much.

But this is the kind of issue ANY game is going to have as they introduce new rules, in new books, that were developed after the fact, and people start finding the loopholes.

 

Alot would come down to GM call, and Players not being gamesters about it.... its about the story after all.

 

Equally, when you get to that kind of level, what are you facing? What is the GM throwing at you? If the GM is not tailoring the adversaries against you,. then there is an issue there.

If the GM is not arranging for situations where you cannot use your super weapons, is there an issue there?

 

If the challenge does not increase, to keep the power levels and challenge levels equal, is this an issue at the table or with the system?

 

No system is perfect :) But I cannot give you good examples, as I have never gotten to that point, and dont know the rules in such detail as to know how to fix them.

All I can do is offer suggestions at the basic level, which might not be much use.

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3 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

Two pistols with autofire might be something in the FAQ, minimum is two increases in difficulty, but imho you could read the rules as well as three increases if you really want to fire both weapons with autofire, which should never be the case as it makes no sense mechanically.

So basically, increase difficulty by two. Two linked pistoles makes sense to activate link on both separately, but with two autofire weapons you can literally just activate autofire on your first weapon always and take just the cheap extra hit from the second weapon which pays for itself via banta-eye. 

Though, keep in mind the intimidator has only two hardpoints, so it is a bad weapon to use the paired attachment as you want superior and banta eye normally and usually should not mind to add something for extra damage and pierce on top, before considering adding paired. Narratively wielding two autofire pistoles is cool, mechanically it freaking does not add anything. Besides, especially on a gunslinger I would consider using two HH-50 instead. You get a lot more penetration power with the HH-50 and 4 hits in one action is pretty solid especially if you have splitfire as gunslinger. And as a bonus those HH-50 are not restricted and come with vicious 1 instead of inaccurate 1. Only downside is the short instead of medium range. 

 

Actually I'd probably use the Imperial Light Blaster Pistol, has 3 hard Points so I can use Superior, Paired and Electronic Sight (Whiel it isn't an auto Advantage it can be Upgraded with Accurate +1, including aiming as an incidental, and 2 Maneuvers with of aim you're adding 4 Boost dice to the attack. Add in the "Double or Nothing" talent for Gamblers and watch the advantages roll in...8) Unfortunately that Talents Boosts the difficulty an additional time so...that be up to +4 Difficulty...forgot that when I originally posted form work...darnit...8P

And sadly the HH-50 also only has 2 Hardpoints...and is rarity 7, gm is currently restricting us to rarity 6 gear...probably for the better...8D

Edited by GandofGand

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TWC requires you to "use the weapon with the highest difficulty" to build the dice pool. Since both auto fire pistols have the same difficulty (X+1) then you only apply the auto-fire additional difficulty once. You would end up with a difficulty of X+2 since the weapons are the same weapon type.

 

As far as auto-fire i'm with 2P51, the biggest problem is not being able to point them at the PC's. I can make their life hell no matter the weapon they have, all it takes is one "Do you have a permit for that?" to get things going. Most major NPC's wont let you on their premises with such large weaponry, every single door guard at every single cantina is gona throw your ass out. Basically if your intention is to absolutely positively kill everybody in the room then its exactly what you need... the other 90% of the time its a bigger liability than most should be bothering with.

Advise you PC's to have a weapon for daily use, then an autofire for "special" occasions. then give them those special occasions, make it clear that you want them to have their fun, but just as the intention of the rules is to make it realistic the problems should be realistic too.

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5 hours ago, GandofGand said:

Actually I'd probably use the Imperial Light Blaster Pistol, has 3 hard Points  … 

And sadly the HH-50 also only has 2 Hardpoints...and is rarity 7, gm is currently restricting us to rarity 6 gear...probably for the better...8D

Hmm, where is that pistole from? Sounds like a real contender to the intimidator. Though leave out paired and just a pair for banta-eyes, two auto advantage is better than reducing the cost for activation by one. But as mentioned, mechanically there is little point in using more than one weapon in full-auto at the same time.

Not sure if restricting gear based on a simple number is such a wise choice, especially with so many powerful items in the rarity 6 bracket and face characters meant to have easier access to rare equipment.

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I have no idea how I could have overlooked the SE-14r Light Repeating Blaster, it literally on the same table as the IR.5 Intimidator and downright the better full-auto pistol, especially as the SE-14r offers stun settings as well. 

Thanks Plan B. 

EDIT: btw there is civilian version of the SE-14, the SE-14c which is a little lighter, but is not restricted.  (Forged in Battle) 

Edited by SEApocalypse

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There are a lot of things in this game that are unbalanced, auto-fire just being one of the ones that always seems to come up as it is very easy to abuse. The nice thing about this system is it's focus on narrative tends to allow GM's to gloss over many areas which are not as finely tuned as some would like. Unfortunately combat is one of those times where it becomes harder to work around certain mechanics for a GM, so your options are either to get creative with encounter design or to house rule it. If you opt for the house rule route my personal favourite is to increase the advantage cost for each additional shot; so 2 adv for the second hit, 3 advantage for the third. I find this generally does enough to stop it getting out of hand as to get 4 shots off from a single roll it already costs a total of 9 advantage instead of 6, but for one or two extra hits it does not change that much.

Personally I also have no problems giving NPC's auto-fire weapons unlike some have suggested, although I generally would let enemy Rivals/Nemesis automatically have the spitfire talent as it means you can distribute damage across the PC's if you want to trigger a lot of extra hits you shouldn't intentionally use everything available to ruin a single PC's day for no good reason, it is a story after all not a competition. Also during a campaign I let all the minions from a human gang on Nar Shaddaa have auto-fire weapons, I toned their damage down a bit in case but the point was to give them the feel of classic gangsters with tommy guns which I thought worked out well.

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1 hour ago, SEApocalypse said:

I have no idea how I could have overlooked the SE-14r Light Repeating Blaster, it literally on the same table as the IR.5 Intimidator and downright the better full-auto pistol, especially as the SE-14r offers stun settings as well. 

Thanks Plan B. 

EDIT: btw there is civilian version of the SE-14, the SE-14c which is a little lighter, but is not restricted.  (Forged in Battle) 

Yeah I knew there was a Civvy version, but it's both lower damage but also harder to crit with. The tradeoff being the GM can't run the civvy version out of Ammo with triple threat (but that can be counter with Reloads). 

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4 minutes ago, GandofGand said:

Yeah I knew there was a Civvy version, but it's both lower damage but also harder to crit with. The tradeoff being the GM can't run the civvy version out of Ammo with triple threat (but that can be counter with Reloads). 

The real trade off here is the (R) in the rarity code. The SE-14r is one use of a weapon scanner away from getting confiscated, meanwhile the SE-14c is perfectly fine as other common blasters too. 

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