How this U wing build? Which,what 2 ships go with it?

[Asturonethorius 5]

I'm looking at this build of U wing, and which, what 2 ships to go with it.

I was, am thinking about either the YT 2400 or another U Wing for the 2nd ship.

I would like either a large ship, or a B Wing, or a Tanky T 70, for the 2nd Ship. 

For the 3rd Ship was thinking either a Airen Mc Cracken Z 95, Green Pilot A Wing, a 23 point U Wing, 25 point Jess T 70, Biggs Darklighter

I do not have a Biggs Darklighter, but IF could fit him with a U Wing, YT 2400, I MIGHT be willing to get him.

Ships I have: YT 2400, 1300, B Wing, T 70, A Wing, Z 95, U Wing, If I buy it, will probably buy it. Biggs Darklighter, IF buy it

Thinking of buying U Wing expansion for $25 if can make a fun, viable list, that viable in at least casual play. By viable, it does not have to be the top, best. Somewhat, semi competitive, in both casual, casual tourny's. I do like the U Wing, want to, will probably buy it, and would like to build around it.

Here U wing build:

Cassian U Wing: 27 Base: 40,41 Total

Wired 1

Experimental Interface 3

Lando 3

Jan or Rey depending if YT 2400, Sam B Wing, 2nd U Wing, etc.

If Sam B wing, or YT 2400, then Jan Ors next to Lando, so can put Lando on YT 2400, B Wing.

If another U Wing, then Rey, Recon Specialist next to Lando on the above 1st EPT, Cassian U Wing, and Jan Ors next to Lando on the other 2nd U Wing.

Title 0

Sensor Jammer 4

This is both a very defensive, offensive build. EI lets me use Lando twice for 4 max possible evade, with 3 green dice at range 3, 2 green dice at range 2. Jan can turn focus into evade. Wired, Sensor Jammer modifies, rerolls dice, helps make sure opponent cant save focus for defense, and has to use it on offense, help maximize hit negation. Combo can negate a max of 8 hits at range 3, with 4 Lando evades, 3 green dice evades, and Sensor Jammer a opponent hit.

On offense at range 1, Lando, TL, wired can easily modify 4 attack dice into 4 hits.

And the LOTS of green on the movement dial, makes dealing with stress easy. And Cassian ability, can remove stress on another similarly built U Wing.

And the U Wing can stop, not move, and can use the Title to 180 turn without stress, losing a action.

And even tho doing so telegraphs to opponent, loses 1 green die, with this build, if opponent attacks while after 180, the U Wing can still negate a max of 6,7 hits.

If I added a YT 2400:

Vrill 32 base, 40, 41Total

Flechette Cannon 2, or Mangler Cannon 3

Lando 3 (Jan Ors on the U wing)

Experimental Interface 3

OR If add another U Wing

Have it be a non EPT U wing:

23 points base, 35 total

Lando 3

Rey or Recon Specialist or Jan Ors for 2,3

Experimental interface 3

Sensor Jammer 4

Title 0

Or Could throw in Biggs Darklighter, Red Ace, Jess, T 70, X wing, B Wing, as 2nd ship

Then could throw in either Airen Mc Cracken Z 95, as 3rd ship,for a extra free action that could then do Lando 3 times, instead of just 2 times, or could throw in either Green Pilot, Jake A wing.

So what do any of ya all think?

What would any of ya all build around the 40 point Cassian EPT U Wing build out of the ships I have, want to, should, probably will get?

 

 

[wurms 5,313]

If you are doing a U-wing without Biggs, keep them cheap, or else add Engine Upgrade. Engine Upgrade allows you to do like a 3bank and boost to safety, flip to landing mode, and then turn around, and come back into the fight. Can also 2 sharp and boost for quick turn around.

My favorite Cassian build for just about any list:

Cassian Andor (27)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Gunner (5)
Operations Specialist (3)
Engine Upgrade (4)
Pivot Wing (0)

Total: 42

PS8 with repositioning, double tap, and he is supportive at range 1-2 removing stress AND supply focus tokens to the squad when they miss. He can stop, turn around, fire on an opponent, miss, get a TL and Focus and fire a full mod shot, all on a red stop 180. I was battling a Procket Jake on Vassal with this build and Cassian was keeping Jake on his toes. Not too shabby. Leaves you with enough points for Rey or Han Falcon or Super Dash.

You can change Op spec to Hot Shot Co-Pilot to strip focus tokens, or go tactician for control and double stress.

Something with a YT, Uwing and a Bwing?

Cassian Andor (27)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
"Chopper" (0)
Tactician (2)
Engine Upgrade (4)
Pivot Wing (0)

Eaden Vrill (32)
Intelligence Agent (1)

Blue Squadron Pilot (22)
Accuracy Corrector (3)
Ion Cannon (3)
Tactician (2)
B-Wing/E2 (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Both the Uwing and Bwing have tactician for stress. Bwing has ion cannon that always spits out 2 hits. Instant Ion (and maybe even stress) to 1 agility ships and good chance on 2 agility ships. Vrill's ability is kept "ON" with Tacticians. The Bwing can also kturn every round thanks to Cassians ability. Chopper on Cassian allows him to stop, turn, and boost if its needed to get a nice shot on the enemy.

[Asturonethorius 5]

Thanks for the comment. I see that you are advising keeping the Cassian U Wing cheap, focusing on OFFENSE, instead of DEFENSE, if going to go without Biggs. 

You can NEGATE up to a MAX of 7,8 hits, at range 3 with:

Cassian: 27,

LANDO 3

Jan or Rey 2 or Recon Specialist 3

Wired 1

Experimental Interface 3.

Sensor Jammer would be good, but might be too expensive at 4, but even without Jammer, Cassian with this build can NEGATE 6,7 HITS MAX, and when K turn with Title, can still NEGATE 5,6 hits MAX. That means on average Negating 3,3.5,4 hits, and when K Turning with title, negating about 2.75, 3, 3.5 hits on average. Which means at most, unless opponent gets extremely lucky, while you get extremely unlucky, you take 1 damage, lose 1 shield,  or 1 hull on average, at most, where, when you have 4 hull, 4 shields, where if focus fire, gang up on, it would take 3.5, 4, 4.5, 5, 5.5, 6, 6.5 turns, 5 turns on average to destroy Cassian. 

And while not as strong on offense as your build, 4 dice, TL, wired at range 1, is nothing to snide at. FCS, is nice, ok, but not necessary, and is better utilized with a cannon, torpedo, missiles, rockets. Since Cassian has wired, no missiles, no rockets, no cannons, etc, FCS, tho nice, is not necessary. I might replace Jammer with FCS, or go without both FCS Jammer, to save points.

Engine Upgrade is not necessary, overrated here, because the movement dial is good enough, without EU, and because EU is too expensive points wise considering the dial is good enough, and Experimental interface at 3 is so much better, in that it uses LANDO AGAIN, and provides stress for Wired.

Chopper and Tactician are not as good as LANDO, and either REY, or  JAN, or Recon Specialist, at 2,3.

Yes Chopper, Tactician is cheaper points wise, but LANDO, and either Rey, Recon, Jan do more, better value.

VI is good on changing a PS 6 to a 7. But that is not as good as rerolling attack, defense dice with Wired.

Not really interested on UTTERLY COMPLETELY DIFFERENT builds on Cassian.

This Cassian build is a extremely DEFENSIVE, Attritionative build.

The only question I would have about Cassian, is whether to go without both Jammer, FCS, to save points, or replace Jammer with FCS.

As for Vrill, he seems underpowered with just only intelligence agent. 

And Blue Pilot Seems underpowered, easily destroyed in about 1.5 turns

[Asturonethorius 5]

Possibilities:

Cassian 27, 36 total

Wired 1

EI 3

Lando 3

Rey 2

Title 0

Cassian 27, 36 total

Wired 1

Lando 3

Jan 2

EI 3

Title 0

A 3rd U Wing at 23 plus 5 points in upgrades, or Biggs, or Jess T 70, or Jake, Green Pilot A Wing

Or 

Cassian 27, 36 total

Vrill 32 base 40 total

Flechette Cannon 2

Lando 3

EI 3

Leaving 24 points for Airen McCracken, Green Pilot A wing

Or 

Cassian 27, 36 total

Sam B Wing 28, 38 total with: Elusiveness 2, Jammer 4, Lando 3, E2 1

Leaving 26 for Green Pilot A Wing

Or 

Cassian 27, 36 total

Poe 31, 36 with R5 P9 3, IA 0, Elusiveness 2, or Wired 1, black one 1

Or Red Ace 29, 35 total,with Comm Relay 3, R5 P9 3, IA 0

Leaving 29 points for 3rd ship. For either 23 point U wing, plus 6 points in upgrade cards, or Jess T 70, or B Wing or Jake A Wing

[Asturonethorius 5]

Possibilities continued:

YT 1300: 42 Chewey base: 52 Total 

Wired 1

Evade Title 1

Lando 3

Jan 2

Experimental Interface 3

Cassian U Wing: 27 base, 36 total

Wired 1

Lando 3

Rey 2

EI 3

Title 0

Z 95 12

 

Edited March 14, 2017 by Asturonethorius

[Asturonethorius 5]

OR

100 points

YT 1300: Chewey 42: 50 total

Lando 3

Jan 2

EI 3

U Wing 23, 31 total

Lando 3

Rey 2

EI 3

Airen Mc Cracken Z 95 19 (free actions to other ships like getting to use Lando for 3rd time.

 

[wurms 5,313]

5 hours ago, Asturonethorius said:

Thanks for the comment. I see that you are advising keeping the Cassian U Wing cheap, focusing on OFFENSE, instead of DEFENSE, if going to go without Biggs. 

You can NEGATE up to a MAX of 7,8 hits, at range 3 with:

Cassian: 27,

LANDO 3

Jan or Rey 2 or Recon Specialist 3

Wired 1

Experimental Interface 3.

Sensor Jammer would be good, but might be too expensive at 4, but even without Jammer, Cassian with this build can NEGATE 6,7 HITS MAX, and when K turn with Title, can still NEGATE 5,6 hits MAX. That means on average Negating 3,3.5,4 hits, and when K Turning with title, negating about 2.75, 3, 3.5 hits on average. Which means at most, unless opponent gets extremely lucky, while you get extremely unlucky, you take 1 damage, lose 1 shield,  or 1 hull on average, at most, where, when you have 4 hull, 4 shields, where if focus fire, gang up on, it would take 3.5, 4, 4.5, 5, 5.5, 6, 6.5 turns, 5 turns on average to destroy Cassian. 

And while not as strong on offense as your build, 4 dice, TL, wired at range 1, is nothing to snide at. FCS, is nice, ok, but not necessary, and is better utilized with a cannon, torpedo, missiles, rockets. Since Cassian has wired, no missiles, no rockets, no cannons, etc, FCS, tho nice, is not necessary. I might replace Jammer with FCS, or go without both FCS Jammer, to save points.

Engine Upgrade is not necessary, overrated here, because the movement dial is good enough, without EU, and because EU is too expensive points wise considering the dial is good enough, and Experimental interface at 3 is so much better, in that it uses LANDO AGAIN, and provides stress for Wired.

Chopper and Tactician are not as good as LANDO, and either REY, or  JAN, or Recon Specialist, at 2,3.

Yes Chopper, Tactician is cheaper points wise, but LANDO, and either Rey, Recon, Jan do more, better value.

VI is good on changing a PS 6 to a 7. But that is not as good as rerolling attack, defense dice with Wired.

Not really interested on UTTERLY COMPLETELY DIFFERENT builds on Cassian.

This Cassian build is a extremely DEFENSIVE, Attritionative build.

The only question I would have about Cassian, is whether to go without both Jammer, FCS, to save points, or replace Jammer with FCS.

As for Vrill, he seems underpowered with just only intelligence agent. 

And Blue Pilot Seems underpowered, easily destroyed in about 1.5 turns

First you are looking at best case scenarios. Sensor Jammer is not guaranteed miss. Mindlink, Expertise, Recon Spec, Rey crew, Jyn Ersa, all supply multiple focus tokens or turns eyes to hits. Lando is not guaranteed anything and you cannot use Lando twice in one round. Only one type of action per round. You cant target lock twice, you cant focus twice, you cant Lando twice. Did you even do the math on rolling two evades with two dice, twice in a row? Even if you could, you can only use 1 evade token per attack. So you would have to get attacked four times to use those fantasy four evades.

Wired only kicks in when you do a stop maneuver or EI. EI every single round means you are only doing bank maneuvers.  Bank maneuvers only turns you into a lamba that we all know it isnt the greatest fighter. What happens when a ship gets around you? You cant just stop and turn around, you have to move first, flip to landing. Then next round, turn around. Pretty much telling your opponent where your arc is going to be and he has two rounds to plan for it. I have flown the U-wing a lot, took it to regionals. It is a slow lumbering ship, and when its 42pts, almost half your list, expect it to get focused down. Engine lets you get away when the going gets tough.

You have a lot of variance and what-ifs. One game it can all go right and you are indestructible. The next game your 41pt behemoth is gone in one round because Lando blanked out, and you rolled hit blank blank while stressed with wired. FCS lets you reroll those blanks. Recon Spec/Jan ors guarantees you an evade/focus, more than lando can guarantee. You want to eliminate variance, so you have some idea of what to expect every game.

Vrill with stress on the enemy is one of the most cost efficient ships in the game. A 3 primary PWT for 32pts is insane. The Falcon's Rebel sympathyzer is 38pts and the Scout with Punishing One title is 37pts. Intel Agent lets you PS2 Bwing know where to b-roll, accuracy corrector lets him get 2 hits guaranteed after the b-roll. Block a defender with Vrill, and that B-wing with 2 hits with tactician stressing it can end its day real early. Keep Vrill's ability active and he is a monster for 32pts.

 

 

Edited March 14, 2017 by wurms

[Asturonethorius 5]

Thanks for explaining the reasoning behind, for your suggestions.

I thought the cant do same action twice thing only applied to focus, TL, Evade, non upgrade card, action bar actions.

So when EI says after do action, can do a action of a upgrade card with Action header, I errantly thought can do it twice, by using action to do it, then EI to do it again.

If could do Lando twice, it would be worthwhile. But since can only do Lando once, then it is too gamblish.

Your comment about Wired, maneuver dial, EU, seems to me to create a conundrum. It seems like your saying that would need EU to help deal with being stressed for Wired. But the stress trigger for Wired is EI a modification. And EU is a modification. So it seems like if went with EU, that not be able to have EI, thus no stress, Wired, thus no need for EU, because no stress. That seems to be a conundrum.

I know I can, could cut EI, Wired, run EU,but that would mean I would lose my DEFENSIVE, and offensive rerolls.

But unless I run either Jyn, Lando upgrade crew cards, with the Action header, EI would not trigger the stress for Wired, and even if it were to could trigger the stress, I would not be able to get a action out of it, thus getting stressed for almost nothing, except wired. But again, if cut EI, I lose rerolls. Another Conundrum.

I could run Lonewolf, but if did that, while it would solve the EI conundrum, EU would then not be needed. Also EU seems just as overcosted at 4 as Jammer at 4.

I could run Expertise, but that only affects offense, not defense, seems overcosted at 4, seems not as good as LW, Wired.

Also I think I finally see the light about FCS. FCS seems offensive, not defensive. But if FCS lets me not spend a action for a TL,(but still get me a TL), that I could instead use to get a focus, evade thru either Lando, Jyn, Rey, Recon, Jan, focus action, etc, then that would let me be more defensive, because if had to spend a action for a target lock, I would not have that action to do a defensive action. Thats better action economy with FCS, then without it.

So I think on Cassian I will go with:

Wired 1

Jyn 2

Jan 2

FCS 2

EI 3

Yes, that still makes it so that conundrum of needing EU, but if go with EU, I lose extra action, wired rerolls, both of which I want, and its 1 point more expensive, so I guess that will have to find another way to deal with needing EU, perhaps there is a system upgrade, that could replace FCS, that does the same as EU. Only problem with that is that would lose the action economy of FCS, and it would probably be 1,2 points more expensive then FCS.

The only problem I see with going with both Jyn, Jan Ors on Cassian, is that Cassian at 37 points will definitely be more of a target, what with the great offense, defense, capabilities, and getting rid of stress, and handing out focus, evade tokens thru Jyn, Jan Ors, which means even with good defense, offense, Cassian will, would be focus fired, ganged up on, gone, destroyed in 2.5, 3, 3.5 turns

 

But if go with another similar 37 point Cassian, that could cause a conundrum for opponent.

If go with a YT 2400 Vrill 32 base as 2nd Ship, I would go with:

Flechette Cannon 2: A 3 dice attack that would give 1 damage, stress to enemy ship, that if not gotten rid of, would let me use BMST, or Vrills 3,4 dice PWT depending on range, on enemy ship.

Jan Ors 2: Could help take some of the target focus, heat off Cassian. Can either add 1 evade to YT, or give a 2nd evade token to Cassian, in case Cassian focus fired, ganged up on. And its only 1 point more expensive.

If go without Smuggling Compartment, BMST, at 1 more point, then total would be 36, leaving 27 points left over for 3rd ship, Jake Chardan, Test Pilot, AT 2, Elusiveness 2, Wired 1, A wing.

Or  Green Pilot A wing Test Pilot, Proton Rocket 3, AT 2, Elusiveness 2, Wired 1, 27 total.

Or a 24 point T 70 with R5 P9 3, IA 0, 27 total

 

Or a 23 point U Wing with FCS 2, with 2 cheap crew like int agent 1, inspiring recruit 1, for 27 total

If go with smuggling compartment, BMST, then would have 26 points, instead of 27, and would go with either a green pilot A wing, with Wired 1, PTL 3, Proton Rockets 3, AT 2, Test Pilot 0

[Admiral Deathrain 5,232]

Sorry that I don't really have something to say, but could you start using a squadbuilder (like http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel Alliance ) and use its "display as text -> BBcode" option to make your squadrons much more readable and also quicker for you to write out? Right now it is a chore to go through your ideas. Now since just complaining is annoying I'll also give you a list based on what you have:

Heff Tobber (24)
Jyn Erso (2)
Jan Ors (2)
Pivot Wing (0)

Dash Rendar (36)
Expertise (4)
Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
Outrider (5)

Green Squadron Pilot (19)
Snap Shot (2)
Chardaan Refit (-2)
Trick Shot (0)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

My recommendations for the U-Wing would be to keep it as cheap as possible, but with the ability to generate focus as that decreases its fragility by quite a bit. Yes you heard that right, the U-Wing is fragile - as is the B-Wing. While their high hull and shieldpoints guarantee a certain amount of attacks is needed to destroy them, that firepower can easily be amassed in a single turn now. Jyn/Jan helps with that, as focussed green dice are a lot more reliable than naked ones.

[Asturonethorius 5]

Ok think I will go with 3 large Ships

1. Cassian U Wing: 27 base: 37, total.

Wired 1

Jyn 2

Jan Ors 2

FCS 2

EI 3

Pivot Wing Title 0

2. Vrill YT 2400: 32 Base: 36 total

So which, Jan Ors 2 Or Rey 2?

Flechette Cannon 2

3. 23 point U Wing Base, 27 total

FCS 2

So which 2 out of Inspiring Recruit 1, Or Hera 1, Or Intel Agent 1, (Or if is a 0 zero cost crew, then Jan Ors, Or Rey, or Tactician, and Zero, 0 cost crew), that add up to no more 2 points?

This list should pump out a lot of firepower, offense, defense, 26 points of combined Hull, Shields, which should be a lot considering the defensiveness of the 3 large ships.

 

Edited March 14, 2017 by Asturonethorius

[Asturonethorius 5]

Admiral, I appreciate that your trying to help.

Yes a wrongly built U Wing can, could be fragile, and if built wrong,would need to be cheaper points wise, like you said.

But as you said Jyn, Jan Ors makes the U wing even more defensive. Throw in Wired, and it is even more defensive. Throw in Experimental Interface, and it is even more defensive.Throw in the offensive, defensive action economy of FCS, and its even more defensive.

Cassian with Wired, FCS, Jyn, Jan Ors, EI, 3 green dice at range 3, is NOT fragile like the B Wing, and 37 points for Wired, FCS, Jyn, Jan, EI, is NOT to much.

What is too much is your build of YT 2400 to go with what seems like aunderpowered U wing, and a underpowered A wing.

Your YT build is 52 points, and does not even use the YT 2400's valuable crew slot, to slot a crew, which if did, would make your YT 2400 build even more way too expensive points wise, and your YT 2400 build is even more less defensive then the U Wing, which has a better chance to negate hits, damage, attacks, then your build of the YT 2400 does. In 2, 2.5, 3 turns your YT 2400, would be focus fired, ganged up on, destroyed. Some of those 52 points would be better off allocated elsewhere to the 2 other ships.

Next while Snapshot, Trickshot, is good on a Green Wing Pilot, when your trying to squeeze just barely by skin of teeth, a A wing in as a 3rd Ship, that wouldnt be necessary if go with a 32 point base Vrill with flechette Cannon 2, and either a Rey 2, or Jan Ors 2, for a total of 36, instead of 52. That frees up about 15 points, combined with other left over points, depending on Vrill build, to be spent on 3rd ship.

Better A Wing builds are Chardan Refit -2, Test Pilot 0, AT 2, PTL 3, or Elusiveness 2, Wired 1, on either Green Pilot, or Jake, OR Proton Rockets, Test Pilot, AT, PTL, or Elusiveness, Wired, on Green Pilot or Jake. This gives rerolls on offense, defense, and can with a TL, Wired, do 5 hits, damage with Proton Rocket, and with AT, Wired, PTL, or Elusiveness, 4 green dice at range 3, your almost unhittable. Thats better then a more expensive YT 2400, and Snap Shot, Trickshot on a weaker, cheaper A wing build.

A Cassian U Wing at 37 with wired, FCS, Jyn, Jan, EI, Pivot Wing title, as the first ship, with a 36 point Vrill with Flechette Cannon, Jan Ors, Or Rey, as 2nd Ship, and a 23 point U Wing with 2 crew adding up to 2 points, and FCS 2, for a total of 27 points as the 3rd ship, is pretty good, fine, better then a 52 point YT, cheap A wing, ok, semi good U wing for the reasons explained above.

[Pimpbacca 290]

14 hours ago, wurms said:

If you are doing a U-wing without Biggs, keep them cheap, or else add Engine Upgrade. Engine Upgrade allows you to do like a 3bank and boost to safety, flip to landing mode, and then turn around, and come back into the fight. Can also 2 sharp and boost for quick turn around.

My favorite Cassian build for just about any list:

Cassian Andor (27)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Gunner (5)
Operations Specialist (3)
Engine Upgrade (4)
Pivot Wing (0)

Total: 42

PS8 with repositioning, double tap, and he is supportive at range 1-2 removing stress AND supply focus tokens to the squad when they miss. He can stop, turn around, fire on an opponent, miss, get a TL and Focus and fire a full mod shot, all on a red stop 180. I was battling a Procket Jake on Vassal with this build and Cassian was keeping Jake on his toes. Not too shabby. Leaves you with enough points for Rey or Han Falcon or Super Dash.

You can change Op spec to Hot Shot Co-Pilot to strip focus tokens, or go tactician for control and double stress.

Something with a YT, Uwing and a Bwing?

Cassian Andor (27)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
"Chopper" (0)
Tactician (2)
Engine Upgrade (4)
Pivot Wing (0)

Eaden Vrill (32)
Intelligence Agent (1)

Blue Squadron Pilot (22)
Accuracy Corrector (3)
Ion Cannon (3)
Tactician (2)
B-Wing/E2 (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Both the Uwing and Bwing have tactician for stress. Bwing has ion cannon that always spits out 2 hits. Instant Ion (and maybe even stress) to 1 agility ships and good chance on 2 agility ships. Vrill's ability is kept "ON" with Tacticians. The Bwing can also kturn every round thanks to Cassians ability. Chopper on Cassian allows him to stop, turn, and boost if its needed to get a nice shot on the enemy.

PS2 Blue S.P. is no good with Tactician to keep Vrill "on" because he fires after Vrill. Grey squadron Y-Wing (PS4) BLT-A4 stressbot TLT is 28 points, and puts out two stress in arc. Turning it around is a biatch though.

 

*edit* Cassian will be handy to remove stress, but he generally won't keep up with that much stress accumulation on the Y.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Pimpbacca

[Asturonethorius 5]

I didnt realize that bacca, thanks for pointing that out.

Also flechette cannon on Vrill, can stress Vrill's target.

The Y Wing would be nice to both stress enemy ship for Vrill, and for TLT, but as you said, it would be a pain turn around, and is only 1 agility, making it easier to kill.

Also I dont have a Y Wing, and dont plan on running out, buying it anytime soon, to go along with buying U Wing, just to build, play a U Wing, YT 2400 Vrill, Y wing list. Tho eventually I might buy a Y Wing.

The more I think about it, I think a Cassian U Wing at 36, 37 points, a 36 point Vrill, YT 2400, and either a 23 point base U Wing, 27 total, OR a 27 point Green Pilot, Jake A wing, or a 27 point, Jess T 70, 24 base, R5 P9 3, IA 0, as a 3rd ship, is the way to go.

And I think I am leaning toward the 2 U Wings, with 1 of em being a Cassian, with a Vrill YT 2400 as the 3 ships I want to go with. 26 points of combined Hull, shield points is pretty good.

[Admiral Deathrain 5,232]

4 hours ago, Asturonethorius said:

Admiral, I appreciate that your trying to help.

Yes a wrongly built U Wing can, could be fragile, and if built wrong,would need to be cheaper points wise, like you said.

But as you said Jyn, Jan Ors makes the U wing even more defensive. Throw in Wired, and it is even more defensive. Throw in Experimental Interface, and it is even more defensive.Throw in the offensive, defensive action economy of FCS, and its even more defensive.

Cassian with Wired, FCS, Jyn, Jan Ors, EI, 3 green dice at range 3, is NOT fragile like the B Wing, and 37 points for Wired, FCS, Jyn, Jan, EI, is NOT to much.

What is too much is your build of YT 2400 to go with what seems like aunderpowered U wing, and a underpowered A wing.

Your YT build is 52 points, and does not even use the YT 2400's valuable crew slot, to slot a crew, which if did, would make your YT 2400 build even more way too expensive points wise, and your YT 2400 build is even more less defensive then the U Wing, which has a better chance to negate hits, damage, attacks, then your build of the YT 2400 does. In 2, 2.5, 3 turns your YT 2400, would be focus fired, ganged up on, destroyed. Some of those 52 points would be better off allocated elsewhere to the 2 other ships.

Next while Snapshot, Trickshot, is good on a Green Wing Pilot, when your trying to squeeze just barely by skin of teeth, a A wing in as a 3rd Ship, that wouldnt be necessary if go with a 32 point base Vrill with flechette Cannon 2, and either a Rey 2, or Jan Ors 2, for a total of 36, instead of 52. That frees up about 15 points, combined with other left over points, depending on Vrill build, to be spent on 3rd ship.

Better A Wing builds are Chardan Refit -2, Test Pilot 0, AT 2, PTL 3, or Elusiveness 2, Wired 1, on either Green Pilot, or Jake, OR Proton Rockets, Test Pilot, AT, PTL, or Elusiveness, Wired, on Green Pilot or Jake. This gives rerolls on offense, defense, and can with a TL, Wired, do 5 hits, damage with Proton Rocket, and with AT, Wired, PTL, or Elusiveness, 4 green dice at range 3, your almost unhittable. Thats better then a more expensive YT 2400, and Snap Shot, Trickshot on a weaker, cheaper A wing build.

A Cassian U Wing at 37 with wired, FCS, Jyn, Jan, EI, Pivot Wing title, as the first ship, with a 36 point Vrill with Flechette Cannon, Jan Ors, Or Rey, as 2nd Ship, and a 23 point U Wing with 2 crew adding up to 2 points, and FCS 2, for a total of 27 points as the 3rd ship, is pretty good, fine, better then a 52 point YT, cheap A wing, ok, semi good U wing for the reasons explained above.

You forget that the YT-2400 is Dash, who can reposition through asteroids and doesn't have to look at his enemies to shoot. 58 point Dash builds aren't uncommon, though he can work at less.

What is going to happen with your U-Wing is that if you use Experimental Interface you lost once the enemy is behind you, especially if you only have 50-something points of other stuff in your list. The U-Wing just doesn't clear stress well.

It is great that you want to discover the game by yourself and I would encourage you to run the lists you thought about to see what in them works and what doesn't. Don't overvalue Wired, though, rerolling focus isn't that great. Especially when you have a whole bunch of focus tokens on your ship.

[Cap116 185]

I dont think this is necessarily competitive, but here's an alternative U-wing/YT2400 stress control build:

 

Braylen Stramm (34)

[Braylen Stramm(25), Gunner(5), R3-A2(2), Alliance Overhaul(0), Vectored Thrusters(2)]

Eaden Vrill (34)

 [Eaden Vrill(32), Inspiring Recruit  (1)]

Heff Tobber (32)

[Heff Tobber(24), Anti-Pursuit Lasers(2), Fire Control System(2), Flechette Torpedoes(2), "Zeb" Orrelios(1), Rey (2), Pivot Wing(0)]

They are all PS3, so the player can determine movement and shooting order too...as it is though, I think it only survives 6-7 rounds.

I looked at Jyn, Jan, and Rey for the 2nd crew spot on the U-wing, I threw Rey in there for now.

I also considered putting the Inspiring Recruit on the U-wing and putting "Leebo" on Vrill for a free boost option to help his maneuverability. 

Edited March 14, 2017 by Cap116
I forgot an option.

[Wiredin 3,459]

The problem with the U-Wing is that it's so "balanced" that it's hard to build effectively. either it's too cheap which means it wont be effective, or its too expensive and becomes a points dump. I really enjoy the U-Wing, a lot actually. I find an aggressive U-Wing is the way to go. 

here is my version 6 list:

Cassian Andor (27)
Snap Shot (2)
Enhanced Scopes (1)
Extra Munitions (2)
Sabine Wren (2)
Bistan (2)
Cluster Mines (4)
Engine Upgrade (4)
Pivot Wing (0)

Dash Rendar (36)
Push the Limit (3)
"Mangler" Cannon (4)
Kanan Jarrus (3)
Engine Upgrade (4)
Outrider (5)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

 

The Cassian build here is my favorite that I've come up with so far. I live in a very Kylo heavy meta and he doesn't really care aside from blinded pilot. I fly him like an ace, trying to get into position where I can get off the snap shot. Then the next round use Cass to jump over my target that I snap shotted and drop a bomb on their face! If I did it right I'm now in the perfect position to execute my flip. Bistan helps deliver crits to the big ships, big ships hate crits.

Dash is a highly effective arc dodging monster. Mangler isn't as good as HLC, but in my meta crits seem to be the key and it gets rid of the no-fire doughnut hole. 

Unfortunately this build doesn't give you your third pilot. Honestly I think it's better to have a balance. you either do 3-4 low point ships or 2 high point ships. You don't want to build up, say Cassian and have 2-3 ships escorting him with minimal points spent on the others. Give them hard choices for target priority. In this build's case the priority target will be the YT2400 because most people know Dash is a pain. in reality they should be more worried about Cass.

 

 

[Asturonethorius 5]

Admiral the only time a 50 to 60 plus point Dash Rendar can, could, would, etc, be good,ok,is in a 2 ship list, or a 3, 4 ship list with Dash, 15 point A Wing, 15 point A wing, 12 point Z 95, type of list.

49 to 59 plus point Dash YT 2400 builds do not usually work well with 2 other 20 plus point ships. There are exceptions. That is why most dont run high point Dash YT 2400 with 2 other 20 point plus ships.

And EI will use Jyn, Jan, Wired, to help save you, reroll your green dice, get focus, evades, all of which help to survive longer, when a ship behind you.

Wired, Dice Rerolling, Dice Modification, Extra Action Economy, Mass Production of Focus, Evade, TL, etc, Extra dice, Regen, is where the Power is at. Thats what makes Wired, LW, Elusiveness, FCS, EI, Jan, Jyn, Rey, Recon Specialist, Han Solo, Kyle Katarn, Moldy Crow, etc, so good, because they reroll dice, modify dice, produce lots of focus, evade, give focus, evade, to other ships.

Thats why the Meta has A LOT of dice rerolling, Dice modification, extra dice, extra action economy, TL, focus, evade production, Regen.

Its not uncommon to see 4,5,6 dice rerolled, modified, to all hits, 4,5,6 negated hits.

Also high attacks, and high defenses is also common.

In this kind of Meta, Wired is great in CONJUNCTION, at ONLY 1, ONE point, that can, could, would, should, probably will, etc, reroll lots of eyes into hits.

Example you have 2 ships. Ship A with FCS, Wired, POE, Sam like, Jess, Rey like special Pilot ability to reroll a die,  has a base of 3 dice, is at Range 1, is getting a extra die from Ship B.

When Ship A attacks, it gets 3 base dice, plus 1 from Ship B, plus 1 being at range 1, for 5 total attack dice.

Results: 1 hit, 1 eyeballs, 3 blanks:

Pilot ability to reroll a die: now its 1 hit, 2 eyeballs, 2 blanks.

TL is spent 2 blanks are rerolled, into 1 hit, 1 eye. Now Results are 2 hits 3 eyes.

Then Wired rerolls 3 eyes, resulting in 1 more hit, 2 more eyes.

Then 2 focus tokens are spent changing the 2 eyes into 2 hits, for a final result of 5 hits.

And thats on a bad initial roll of 1 hit, 1 eye, 3 blanks.

Assuming roll AVERAGE on INITIAL attack roll, on AVERAGE number of 3.5 dice, AVERAGE reroll of Pilot ability reroll, AVERAGE TL REROLL, AVERAGE WIRED REROLL, then should get 3.5 hits, no focus spent that can be saved for defense, bad future attack roll.

When Wired is used in synergy, Conjuction, combination with FCS, Pilot ability, etc, its a AWESOME value at ONLY 1, ONE POINT, 1 stress token that can be removed

By comparison, Han Solo is 2 points to spend a TL, that is worth 1 to 3 points, to change eyeballs to hits, for a total cost of about 4 points

Expertise is similar at about 4 points

Flying instructor is similar at 4 points.

Wired cost 1 point, plus cost 1,2 points to deal with stress. So Wired true cost is about 2.5 points, still great value to reroll more then 1, all eyeball dice, compared to the cost of 4 points of other cards to do a somewhat semi similar, same kind of things

In that light, wired is better then VI, LW, Elusiveness, equal, almost equal to Expertise, flight instructor, FCS, PTL, etc.

Only lots of focus tokens on your ship, makes Wired not as good, ok. But at only 1 point, its still worthwhile, as having Wired, lots of focus, lets you either used Wired on attack, save focus for defense, or use focus on attack, use Wired on defense, after spent focus on attack.

Now if Wired were 2,3,4,5 points, then wired would not be good, ok, and would be overcosted.

But its ONLY 1 ONE POINT.

 

 

[Asturonethorius 5]

Wiredin I will keep that build in mind to try, tweak, if I go with a 2 ship list in the future.

 

Also I go for more defensive builds, balance between defense, offense builds.

 

I usually dont go with offense builds, 2 ship list.

 

I find that with all the defense, hull, shields, defensive dice, defensive rerolls, dice mods, that even offensive builds have a hard time.

 

Thats why I like balanced, defensive builds over offensive builds.

 

And the only time I like 2 ship builds is if: YT 1300, YT 2400, or Arc 170 with either YT 1300, or YT 2400, or 2 VCX, 100.

 

I like those because they have 23 to 32 combined Hull, shields. 23 if YT1300, YT 2400, 32 if 2 VCX 100.

 

I find, it seems like lower hull, shield 2 ship list, tend to not seem to work

 

Give a 2 ship list lots of hull, shields, great defense, 3 rerollable, modifiable attack dice at range 2,3,  4 dice at range 1, and chances are I would like that list.

 

But a 2 ship list with low hull, shields, high offense, low defense, lack of dice rerolls, mods on defense, and I probably wouldnt like it.

 

I like 3 ship list best.

 

I find, it seems 4,5 ship list are too fragile, weak, underpiwered, lack upgrade cards, etc, to go up against a STRONG 2,3 ship list

 

And a STRONG 3 ship list can, seems to tear up a weaker, lower hull, lower shields 2 ship list that not something like a YT 1300, YT 2400, or not a 2 VCX 100 list.

 

But thats just what it seems like to me, and is just my style, preference, taste, etc.

[Asturonethorius 5]

Cap116 I think your ship choice of 1 U wing, 1 Arc 170, 1 YT 2400 is good great.

 

I also have thought of running either 1 U wing, 1 YT 2400, 1 Arc 170, OR 1 U wing, 1 Arc 170, 1 HWK 290, in the far off eventual future, once I buy ARC 170, HWK 290.

I have already bought the YT 1300 this month, and plan on buying the U wing this month, so wouldnt have the money, be able to afford the ARC 170, HWK 290, until 1,2,3 months from now.

If I did go with the U wing, Arc 170, HWK 290, I would go for a defensive build, over your offensive build with something like:

100 points

23 point U wing base, 29 total

Pivot Wing Title 0

Jan Ors 2

Rey 2

FCS 2

28 point Arc 170 with EPT base, 35 total

Title 0

Tail Gunner 2

R5 P9 3

Lonewolf 2

HWK 290 Kyle Katarn 21 base, 36 total

Moldy Crow Title  3

Jyn 2

Wired 1

EI 3

TLT 6

So here why list, How would try to fly it.

The HWK 290 Kyle Katarn, with moldy crow, Jyn, EI would be the main focus battery, that would slow roll stay back, produce, store, give out focus like candy to any ship. It would use TL, Wired to TLT 1,2 damage to a enemy ship each turn. Jan Ors on U wing would help give evade, and U wing block for HWK, if opponent try to focus fire, gang up on HWK. But even if gang up on HWK, HWK would likely have 3 green dice at range 3, lots of focus, 1 evade token from Jan Ors.

U Wing is secondary Battery, gets fed focus by HWK to store focus on Rey, so can get focus from either Rey, HWK, and a evade token, a TL every combat phase, round, turn, attack, defense, and if it is targeted, focused, ganged up on, its 2 green dice, 3 at range 3, evade token from Jan, lots of focus from HWK, Rey, will help it survive.

The Arc 170 looks like the most fragile with only 1 agility, but with R5 P9, regen 9 points of combined shield, Hull, and with Lonewolf, it will put up a decent attritionative defense, and with a TL, tail gunner, LW, title that gives 3 attack dice, and front, rear attack arcs, it can do ok, decent damage. And the batteries, Jan Ors on U Wing and the HWK can give a evade token, and focus to help with both attacks, and if attacked.

The key to the list is the batteries HWK and U Wing.

But the Arc 170 could be a late game force against just 1 or 2 enemy ships, depending on the enemy ship, if it has 1 other ship with it, either U wing or HWK.

Each ship can last about 3.5, 4, 4.5 turns max if focused, ganged up on.

So that means that 1 ship will die each game, but that it will take so much combined effort to take out any 1 ship, that if they take out 2 ships, then last ship would be 1 on 1, because while opponents gang up on 1 ship, all 3 of friendly ships would gang up, destroy a opponent ship quickly in 2,2.5,3 turns which faster then the 3.5, 4, 4.5 turns friendly ships would last.

The synergy, rerolls, extra action economy, battery, focus, evade production, TL, offense, defense, Hull, Shields, etc is really good. 

There is 22 combined Hull, shields in the list. Thats an average of a combined 7 Hull/shields per ship

 

Edited March 14, 2017 by Asturonethorius

[Cap116 185]

2 hours ago, Asturonethorius said:

Example you have 2 ships. Ship A with FCS, Wired, POE, Sam like, Jess, Rey like special Pilot ability to reroll a die,  has a base of 3 dice, is at Range 1, is getting a extra die from Ship B.

When Ship A attacks, it gets 3 base dice, plus 1 from Ship B, plus 1 being at range 1, for 5 total attack dice.

Results: 1 hit, 1 eyeballs, 3 blanks:

Pilot ability to reroll a die: now its 1 hit, 2 eyeballs, 2 blanks.

TL is spent 2 blanks are rerolled, into 1 hit, 1 eye. Now Results are 2 hits 3 eyes.

Then Wired rerolls 3 eyes, resulting in 1 more hit, 2 more eyes.

Then 2 focus tokens are spent changing the 2 eyes into 2 hits, for a final result of 5 hits.

So I was looking at your scenario and noticed an error in your actions: 1st, any given die can only be rerolled once, so after the target lock reroll you wouldnt be able to use Wired to reroll the eyeballs to go for hits. 2nd, it only takes 1 focus token to change all the eyeball results on the dice to hits, not one token per die like you mentioned.  

Since you mentioned ship B was providing an extra die to ship A, and we have been talking about Rebel ships, Ill go ahead and throw this out, I think the only ship that does that is the HWK with Jan as the pilot...which can be an ok support ship, but isnt going to burn down the table or really stand up to a slug fest in the defensive minded builds you envision.

 

I am curious, how long have you been playing Xwing, is it a new game for you? You have some very out of the box build ideas and I can see you are making real progress in your planned lists. 

[Asturonethorius 5]

Oh yeah, your right, I forgot about the reroll rule of dice can only be rerolled once.

Your right that I am new, but I do know most, almost all the rules. Its just that I sometimes forget them.

That will probably change in time eventually.

Altho I am knew, I have played, GMed, DMed, many different D&D, roleplaying games with miniature rules, off, on since 1986

I have also played MTG Magic The Gathering, since 1995

And I have played complex board games CCG's like MTG, Yugi Oh, Battletech, Star Wars, L5R, Lotr, Wheel of time, etc, for many years.

I read a lot, watch vids, etc, have done a LOT of THEORYCRAFTING

I'm applying a lot of that knowledge, experience, theorycrafting, IQ, etc, in what I am doing now in X wing.

That does not mean I know it all, an or that no room to learn, etc.

I dont know it all, and have a lot to learn.

Sometimes I may appear seem like as if I either do, think I know it all, because when something does not make logical sense to me, and thus think I am right about something, when maybe I am right, maybe I am wrong, I explain the logic, flawed, or not, right or wrong, on why I think I am right, while being open enough, that if someone can explain their logic to me, convince, persuade me that I was, am wrong, then sometimes to somewhat almost most of the time, I will be convinced, persuaded, proven wrong, and will admit it, learn from it.

But I often dont believe, think something is right, wrong, just because someone says so with no explanation, logic, etc.

Somebody telling me that something is such and such, just because they said so doesnt fly well with me.

Thats why I dont expect others to just accept what I say, just because I say so. Thats why I explain why.

But some dont like that, and just want you to state, not explain, and accept their statements without explanation, without them needing to convince, persuade, with logic, facts, etc.

Back to Wired:

Yeah my scenario was wrong, but I still think that it demonstrates that Wired can be good in the right situations,and because its only 1 one squad point.

[Asturonethorius 5]

Also agree with you that HWK 290 Jan while ok, not bad in support is not as good as a Kyle Katarn Jyn, EI, etc, HWK, as that HWK produces, stores, gives out focus like as if it were easy to make candy. Thats better then the giving of the extra attack die to another ship by Jan HWK

Kyle Katarn HWK with Jyn, EI, etc, can just sit back, store give out focus,double attack with TLT, and can fit in a list better squad points wise then Jan HWK.

[Asturonethorius 5]

Also another reason why I ask for help, ideas, suggestions, answers to questions I ask, is that while I am new, dont know right off the bat what to put with what, I am pretty ok at recognizing good, ok builds, and builds that I can tweak, improve upon.

In that way I am kind of like the BASF ad slogan where they say, "we dont make things, we make them better"

Well likewise I like to do list derivatives where I TRY(May not alway succeed, but still TRY)to make the list even better, at least for me, my style, etc, and then use, fly the list myself

[Asturonethorius 5]

So here is the 3 large ship list I go, went with, after I bought a U Wing at my local game store.

Cassian U Wing base: 27, total: 37 Have

Wired 1 Proxy

FCS 2 have

Jyn Erso 2 have

Jan Ors 2 Proxy

Experimental Interface 3 Have

YT 2400, Vrill Base: 32, total: 36, Have.

Flechette Cannon 2 Have

Rey 2 Proxy

Blue U Wing Base: 23, Total: 27, Have.

FCS 2 Have

Tactician 2 Proxy

Chopper 0 Proxy

 

Tactician, Flechette Cannon stress ships, so that Vrill, gets 3 dice attacks.

Another Benefit is that if a enemy ship gets 2 stress, they are dead in water, no actions, easier to hit, damage, hit less, do less damage.

Chopper, Cassian help deal with stress. Jyn, and Jan  hand out focus, evade tokens.

FCS gets free target locks, action economy.

EI gets extra action economy, so that can get a max of 4 focus tokens, up to 3 of them can be given to YT 2400 Vrill, that can help 3 dice flechette Cannon, and 3 dice PWT to hit, damage, and where 1 of the up to 3 focus tokens, if left over can be stored on Rey on YT 2400.

The focus, evade tokens, can be put on blue 23 point base, 27 total, to help it survive to help it stress with Tactician, So that YT 2400, would be able to use 3 dice.

List is balanced between offense, defense, lots of Hull, shields in 26 points in, of combined Hull, Shields, with about 8.7 combined Hull, Shields per each of the 3 ships on average.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2017 by Asturonethorius

[Asturonethorius 5]

3 big ship amigos: 31 combined hull points, shields.

100 points

YT 1300: Resistance Sympathizer: base: 38, Total: 40

8 Hull, 5 Shields, 3 attack dice, 1 agility

Jan Ors 2

 

Chopper 0

YT 2400: Wild Fringer: Base: 30, Total: 33

5 shields, 5 Hull, 2 attack dice, 2 agility, 3 attack die tractor beam

Rey 2

Tractor Beam 1

U Wing: Blue pilot: Base: 23: Total: 27

4 Hull, 4shields, 2 agility, 3 attack dice

Pivot Wing Title 0

FCS 2

Jyn 2

Chopper 0

Tho YT 1300 only has 1 agility, it has 13 combined hull/shields, and has Jan Ors on biggest ship, so that gives evade tokens to make toughest ship, so that Jan on tough ship harder to take out.

Jyn on U Wing produces gives focus tokens

 

 

Edited March 16, 2017 by Asturonethorius