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Cloaker

Inaldra is already DOA

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Genesis Red is a lot like Agent Kallus which is a lot like ruthlessness. They came out two waves after the meta they were designed to counter had gone away.

Back when soontir was the terror with it's token tanking Genesis Red could match him.

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6 hours ago, Marinealver said:

Genesis Red is a lot like Agent Kallus which is a lot like ruthlessness. They came out two waves after the meta they were designed to counter had gone away.

Back when soontir was the terror with it's token tanking Genesis Red could match him.

Any X7 Defender, Kanan with 2+ focus tokens, Recoon Specialist, any ship who will take focus+evade, Paratanni, Asoka....Soontir is the last target for Genesis. He is fitting well today.

 

But just vs ANY ship who will bring a focus/evade (even a Tie Fighter) means that Genesis will take 2 "actions" (well an action+token) with 1 Target Lock. Seems pretty good to me.

Edited by Cerve

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In my opinion Inaldra deserves some gameplay. As a Heavy Scyk with regenerating Shields I think this ship will not be Tier 1 but interesting. Imagine a not uncommon situation. Impacted by Protons. 3 hits and Crit (firer with GC). You roll awful 4 Green (obstruction). Eye and 3 Blanks. You are DEAD. You can reroll and pray. 

I think that, like Sunny, this Scum Aces are designed as gamblers. And I like this with Scum.

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18 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

no, the DoA one is Quinn. On practically any other ship his ability would be awesome, but i'd be surprised if he was able to attack with an ordnance twice having a gap of no attack period to get it back. He kinda has to completely disengage to get that weapon back and lock in on a target, leaving his buddies to fight an uneven battle.

Inaldra may not be gamebreaking powerful but she has uses.

Exactly right, and he is overcosted as hell too. 18 points, 20 with Heavy Scyk plus Missiles. For 6 Pilot skill. That's not ever going to see the tabletop.

Inaldra with Ion Pulse is quite okay. You can't go light Scyk, but he is cheap enough for Heavy plus a cannon.

 

 

Edited by ForceM

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2 hours ago, ForceM said:

Exactly right, and he is overcosted as hell too. 18 points, 20 with Heavy Scyk plus Missiles. For 6 Pilot skill. That's not ever going to see the tabletop.

Inaldra with Ion Pulse is quite okay. You can't go light Scyk, but he is cheap enough for Heavy plus a cannon.

 

 

24 points for an eternally plasma torp carrier with 3 agi overcosted? I don't think so.

"You must skip your next shooting opportunity" so what? With 1 ordnance, you will shoot just 1 time per game. And any other torp carrier with EM will be never able to shoot 2 torp consecutively (until your opponents sucks, of course...). 

 

Against a good player, even with a double tap torpedo you will never be able to shoot for 2 consecutive turns. 

Edited by Cerve

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Why do people keep saying Quinn is bad? Fire your torpedo range 2-3 with Deadeye then just gtfo for a turn, take an evade, do a 5k, whatever you need. Reload then zoom back in to range 2-3 and drop another fatty on someone. If they do devote resources to pop Quinn you're out 25 points. It's Biggs with huge alpha potential at the worst case.

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14 hours ago, defkhan1 said:

DOA? That's the silliest thing I've read all day. 13 pts for an EPT slot? That's the cheapest in the entire game!

This. She is the least DOA ship I've ever seen.

She is absolutely guaranteed to see play just for that.

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22 hours ago, Cloaker said:

When they inevitably nerf Attanni to range 1-3 it will only get worse. 

Nerf? Nerf you say?

 

I don't see a range 1-3 restriction on mindlink as a Nerf.... keeping the ships in reasonable proximity to get the benefits has never been that difficult, so unless they cap it at something silly like range 1 it's not going to hurt much...

If anything it would make mindlink stronger since canny players could manage the range to minimise the drawback of the stress sharing.

 

One does not simply restrict the operational range on mindlink.

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27 minutes ago, nigeltastic said:

Why do people keep saying Quinn is bad? Fire your torpedo range 2-3 with Deadeye then just gtfo for a turn, take an evade, do a 5k, whatever you need. Reload then zoom back in to range 2-3 and drop another fatty on someone. If they do devote resources to pop Quinn you're out 25 points. It's Biggs with huge alpha potential at the worst case.

The Quinn build from the article is a point cheaper than a similar build using a Gamma Squad Vet. The Vet is a point of Pilot Skill lower and will only ever fire 2 Proton Torpedoes. The Vet might be slightly more durable in a lot of situations as the Scyk's survivability is going to be much more swingy. The Vet is better at slow rolling but the Scyk has an overall better dial. 

I realize that Gamma Vets aren't exactly top teir right now but I don't think that they are bad for their points. In a different meta we might see more of them. In relation to the Vets, Quinn is priced exactly like she should be.

 

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1 hour ago, nigeltastic said:

Why do people keep saying Quinn is bad? Fire your torpedo range 2-3 with Deadeye then just gtfo for a turn, take an evade, do a 5k, whatever you need. Reload then zoom back in to range 2-3 and drop another fatty on someone. If they do devote resources to pop Quinn you're out 25 points. It's Biggs with huge alpha potential at the worst case.

In that price range you can get HLC Veterans that can fire every turn, even with a free ept (trick shot anyone, mindlink instead of deadeye?), or you can get Mangler Scyks for a lot cheaper. And with the focus  token not needed for firing, they are as accurate as ordnance.

It's nice to have the option, however i can't see this at a level where it gets really interesting to play it.

Edited by ForceM

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41 minutes ago, ForceM said:

In that price range you can get HLC Veterans that can fire every turn, even with a free ept (trick shot anyone, mindlink instead of deadeye?), or you can get Mangler Scyks for a lot cheaper. And with the focus token not needed for firing, they are as accurate as ordnance.

It's nice to have the option, however i can't see this at a level where it gets really interesting to play it.

I've been running a 3 Scyks + Palob Mindlink list as my main squad over the last couple of months and Quinn is definitely on my to-try list.

With Title, Mindlink, Prockets and Chips she is the exact same cost as a Tansarii Vet with a higher PS and a ridiculously punchy close range attack. I think it's exactly what I need to complement the long range firepower of my other Scyks and 24 points is ridiculously budget. Especially with the option to drop one guy down to Inaldra, I suddenly have points to spare even if I do decide to run Genesis Red so the squad has a whole lot of flexibility in loadout all of a sudden that it never had before.

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55 minutes ago, ForceM said:

In that price range you can get HLC Veterans that can fire every turn, even with a free ept (trick shot anyone, mindlink instead of deadeye?), or you can get Mangler Scyks for a lot cheaper. And with the focus  token not needed for firing, they are as accurate as ordnance.

It's nice to have the option, however i can't see this at a level where it gets really interesting to play it.

I think that's more due to the relative efficiency  of cannons over missiles and torpedoes than it is bad pricing for Quinn. I think the things that actually will get Quinn on the table are the ordnance that provides utility that you can't get from a cannon like IPM or Tracers and not the ordnance that just straight up competes with the Mangler and  HLC for damage output.

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1 hour ago, ForceM said:

In that price range you can get HLC Veterans that can fire every turn, even with a free ept (trick shot anyone, mindlink instead of deadeye?), or you can get Mangler Scyks for a lot cheaper. And with the focus  token not needed for firing, they are as accurate as ordnance.

It's nice to have the option, however i can't see this at a level where it gets really interesting to play it.

 

Mmm 2-3 points more, HLC veteran comes around 26-27 points.

Quinn can be 24 with plasma torp. And a better punch (guidance chips).

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21 minutes ago, Cerve said:

 

Mmm 2-3 points more, HLC veteran comes around 26-27 points.

Quinn can be 24 with plasma torp. And a better punch (guidance chips).

It's more like a one point difference if you use the build from the article for Quinn and a build for the HLC Vet that gives similar capabilities..

Quinn with Deadeye, Proton Torpedoes, Guidance Chips, and title comes out to 25.

Tansari Vet with Adaptability, title and HLC comes out to 26.

You'll have the same PS on both ships and a similar damage profile.  Guidance chips and the proton effect come pretty close to what the HLC Vet would get with either a focus or target lock to spend. The Vet can make 4 dice attacks when stressed or can use its action for defense or repositioning while Quinn needs to dedicate an action for making the attack. The Vet can also attack every round that it has a valid target.

Edited by WWHSD

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5 minutes ago, WWHSD said:

It's more like a one point difference if you use the build from the article for Quinn and a build for the HLC Vet that gives similar capabilities..

Quinn with Deadeye, Proton Torpedoes, Guidance Chips, and title comes out to 25.

Tansari Vet with Adaptability, title and HLC comes out to 26.

You'll have the same PS on both ships and a similar damage profile.  Guidance chips and the proton effect come pretty close to what the HLC Vet would get with either a focus or target lock to spend. The Vet can make 4 dice attacks when stressed or can use its action for defense or repositioning. It can also attack every round that it has a valid target.

Is the difference between sustain and burst damage. HLC version can shoot always, but the torpedo/missile punch better. 

 

plus, you can bring Quinn any added effect thanks missiles/torpedoes (strip 1 shield, block the evade token, doing additional damage to any 1 ship etc). 

Depends what you are looking for

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18 minutes ago, Cerve said:

Is the difference between sustain and burst damage. HLC version can shoot always, but the torpedo/missile punch better. 

 

plus, you can bring Quinn any added effect thanks missiles/torpedoes (strip 1 shield, block the evade token, doing additional damage to any 1 ship etc). 

Depends what you are looking for

The Proton Torpedo punch is better. Against a three agility target with a focus token available a Proton Torpedo with Guidance Chips has an expected damage of 1.6. An HLC with either a focus or target lock for modification has an expected damage against the same target of 1.2. The HLC definitely pulls ahead in sustained damage output and flexibility. 

Like I wrote earlier, I think Quinn's best use is to bring something other than straight damage. If you weren't looking at an HLC Vet as being a good way to spend 26 points, Deadeye+Proton Quinn isn't a much better way to spend 25 points. 

Edited by WWHSD

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Looking at the options I think you actually get an interesting buy for Quinn if you do a homing missile or ion torpedo. Homing missile gives a leg up on the hlc shots by denying evade tokens and ion torpedo combines the damage profile of 4 chipped dice with a very legitimate upside of ion control at minimum for your target but also possibly for a friend of theirs too.  Not as good against large bases obviously but the ion token sticks around and it hits harder than ion pulse would.

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3 hours ago, nigeltastic said:

Looking at the options I think you actually get an interesting buy for Quinn if you do a homing missile or ion torpedo. Homing missile gives a leg up on the hlc shots by denying evade tokens and ion torpedo combines the damage profile of 4 chipped dice with a very legitimate upside of ion control at minimum for your target but also possibly for a friend of theirs too.  Not as good against large bases obviously but the ion token sticks around and it hits harder than ion pulse would.

Another great tools is Quinn w/Mindlink, guidance chips, Tracers.

Mindilink will provide focus tokens to everyone.

Tracers the TL to everyone.

 

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4 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Agreed, but let's retroactively apply it to everyone who's ever used the term "DOA" n this forum.  They deserve nothing less.

 

Just because people might be wrong in this case (most spoiled stuff is firmly in the 'might be useful in the right meta/list' category IMO) doesn't mean that every DOA label has been applied wrongly.

 

Some ships/upgrades FFG has released over time have just been plain bad,and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

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