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We will get Super Star Destroyers in 2018 - Prediction

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Another reason that scale doesn't need to matter, aside of the sliding scale... is perspective.  

At the end of the rebels episode, "Secret Cargo" we see the entire fleet hypserspace in.  I don't have a screenshot handy, but you see the Quasar in the forefront and what looks like Home One in the background.  But they are all in focus.  It seems almost like the Home One is smaller than the Quasar.   Perspective can alter the sizes of ships, so that can help ease any lack of immersion, due to a sliding scale.   

 

  It doesn't explain ramming though, but hey I'm doing my best!

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if your only reason for not wanting the SSD is one of scale that's fine. don't buy one. there are plenty of us that do want one, and I for one am tired of reading the same old argument about scale. It has been beaten like a dead horse. if this seems harsh then I am sorry. it is not intended to be but I am wary of the same old reason for not doing it being scale.

 

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So give rebels a hammerhead corvette which does something nasty when it rams a ship and give imperials the SSD and it takes no damage from ships. Fair trade right?

we would still have to account for sacrificing an awing if the aft shields are down to inflict a special crit something like the SSD can have no command dials or change its yaw lol.

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I don't think deliberately ramming spaceships into each other should be a thing.  I know it was in Rouge One, but that was a desperate and situational tactic.  This whole idea of hammerheads as ramming ships has echoes of the logic behind space marines flying across to the other side of the galaxy on massive spaceships and then hitting people with swords.

The spaceships you are talking about are covered in massive laser cannons, it's probably cheaper to just use them than to crash those spaceships into each other deliberately.

It also reminds me of Mechwarrior Dark Age where the only way to move and attack was to run up to another mech and 'charge' it.  This meant that most of the games were mechs covered with long range guns and missiles running at each other full pelt like they were playing American football.  bad memories of that one.

 

 

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they shoulda made cr90s smaller.  And ISDs a little bigger.    Actually, im ok with small ISDs if we get somehting like 1.5-2 x the size of a raider. 

 

The SSD shouldn't be raider sized.  Its gotta be bigger, like even 2x the size of a raider.  It still looks icky, compared to the ISD>  only about 4x ISD instead of its true lenngths of 8x ISD or 11x ISD depending who you trust.  

Oh and easily MSRP $200 US.  

 

I would still buy it.  I don't care its a hunk of painted plastic.  Its an SSD 4x the size of an ISD.  Its mine.  

Then you'll hear me complain that I can't make viable fleets of two SSDs in 1000pt games and that squadrons are still OP.  

Edited by Blail Blerg

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8 hours ago, AegisGrimm said:

It will be so hard not to have starship traffic jams with bases that large on the table....it's not so hard in X-Wing where ships are more maneuverable.

 

 

Have Epic ship bases treat other ship bases like squadrons. 

If it moves into a space it is going into that space. Your not going to stop it.  

edit: Personally I think all ships should work like this, Big ships push smaller ships out of the way, but not vice versa. Add damage if you still want it or not, the damage doesn't bother me, but every ship that is moved should take damage not just the one that is closest. Smaller ships ram bigger ships like normal.

Edited by Teloch

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Seems like a Super Star Destroyer doesn't need many prow guns, if on a 6x3 battlefield it's turn two tactic will to be a screaming hard turn from one 3' end of the board to run down the 6' length of it for the rest of the game, firing broadsides.

 

It really needs some sort of specialized turning mcguffin, as it would never be able to do anything other than wide-radius curves, or it's super long base will overlap it's own maneuver tool and make the turn invalid.  Even a simple sideslip would be **** near impossible without tons of space between joints.

Edited by AegisGrimm

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1 hour ago, AegisGrimm said:

Seems like a Super Star Destroyer doesn't need many prow guns, if on a 6x3 battlefield it's turn two tactic will to be a screaming hard turn from one 3' end of the board to run down the 6' length of it for the rest of the game, firing broadsides.

 

It really needs some sort of specialized turning mcguffin, as it would never be able to do anything other than wide-radius curves, or it's super long base will overlap it's own maneuver tool and make the turn invalid.  Even a simple sideslip would be **** near impossible without tons of space between joints.

Maybe it will have it's own "double joint length" movement tool.

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22 hours ago, solaria said:

if your only reason for not wanting the SSD is one of scale that's fine. don't buy one. there are plenty of us that do want one, and I for one am tired of reading the same old argument about scale. It has been beaten like a dead horse. if this seems harsh then I am sorry. it is not intended to be but I am wary of the same old reason for not doing it being scale.

 

I don't think you understand what most of us are saying when we say 'scale'. Armada has a sliding scale none of us care about 1/2000 or whatever the scale is for armada. The Executor-Class is 17km long and almost 100x more powerful than an ISD so unless it takes a whole fleet to kill and throws out a whole fleet worth of dice it will not feel like an Executor-Class. This is what is meant by 'scale'.  You can still pick up Wizkid SSD models, also Mel sells them, ALSO there are many model kits to service your desire for an Executor model. I would rather they make a well balanced game at this scale than putting any resources into an epic armada, we all see how well epic X-Wing works(barely and with 3x the player base).

I suppose we should have the Death Star as well then, and ISDs in X-Wing....

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1 hour ago, Teh HOBO said:

I don't think you understand what most of us are saying when we say 'scale'. Armada has a sliding scale none of us care about 1/2000 or whatever the scale is for armada. The Executor-Class is 17km long and almost 100x more powerful than an ISD so unless it takes a whole fleet to kill and throws out a whole fleet worth of dice it will not feel like an Executor-Class. This is what is meant by 'scale'.  You can still pick up Wizkid SSD models, also Mel sells them, ALSO there are many model kits to service your desire for an Executor model. I would rather they make a well balanced game at this scale than putting any resources into an epic armada, we all see how well epic X-Wing works(barely and with 3x the player base).

I suppose we should have the Death Star as well then, and ISDs in X-Wing....

And how does your scale work with three corvettes having the same firepower as a ISD?

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Glad we got our wave 6 review up because I hear people complaining about being sick of hearing the "scale issue" of the Executor and saying it doesn't matter and I'm just sick of the SSD debate all together. 

 

Can we we stop making threads on this subject if you don't want an open discussion? If you want a one sided discussion where only your opinion matters then why bother having it? Have you people even thought about that? 

 

So when the SSD discussion stops I stop. If you say it's totally going to happen then I will explain why I don't think it will. That's just how open discussions happen, you won't always hear what you want to hear and you layout your case and let the chips fall where they do. You can't just arbitrarily say one opinion matters and the other doesn't because you don't like it. 

 

I love debating but not when the opposition is stubborn and won't discuss the actual issues and instead focuses on their own feelings. I mentioned the Bridge Size issue over a dozen times over 5 different threads and not one person has ever tried to address it and instead just insinuates I'm being disruptive to the one sided discussion. I just want to make sure if there is going to be a continued discussion that those who question the need and actual ability to have an SSD in the game without it being completely out of place is heard. 

 

And the CR90 comparison doesn't work for me because taking something that's suppose to be a 1/2 inch and making it an inch is almost not noticeable to the majority of people, basic psychology, but taking something that's suppose to be over 6' and making it 22 inches is extremely noticeable to everyone. The Executor would be slimmer than the ISD and its Bridge would be the size of the Light Cruiser if not smaller. (Haven't made the calculations on that yet.) So I say the CR90 argument is irrelevant for that reason, not because I'm trying to blow it off.

Sorry if My questions upset anyone but they are valid questions and concerns from someone who has been a huge fan of Star Wars since he saw it in the summer of 77. If it's going to be done I want it done right. That's my position, and it will not change because others want me to be silent. I listened to you all and I heard you, you want the model, and so would I. But game mechanics and model comparison side by side with the other models makes it hard for me to see how it can be done well. Not insulting anyone, not making any personal attacks, not saying anyone's opinions are wrong. Just saying I have serious concerns that no one has been able to alleviate as of yet. 

 

(And I did see an Executor model mock up that was about the size of the Raider but the Bridge was way out of scale to the original to make the SSD look more like it belonged in the game which is fine for a mockup, which was a good job, but it would bother me if that was the model FFG produced.)

 

Again it is only the Executor that I have issues with, another SSD (Dreadnaught) wouldn't bother me if the mechanics were good.

 

Mind you if you don't believe this is an open discussion and is instead a fanboy attempt to strong arm FFG into making a SSD then just come out and say it. But if you actually want a discussion then here we are. (And saying "I don't care about scale so your opinion doesn't matter" is lazy and not helping here. Give me a good reason why "I" (a serious Star Wars fan that has about $500 invested into this game.) should ignore it too and not just that you don't care about anyone else's opinions on the matter. That's not how discussions work.)

Edited by Beatty

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6 hours ago, Beatty said:

(And I did see an Executor model mock up that was about the size of the Raider but the Bridge was way out of scale to the original to make the SSD look more like it belonged in the game which is fine for a mockup, which was a good job, but it would bother me if that was the model FFG produced.)

Are you talking about my INEXORABLE Class Ship?  I used an ISD Bridge to visually tie in the Scale of the SSD.  Though this represents the INEXORABLE CLASS SSD, which is 4.8 Km, not the 18 Km+ EXECUTOR CLASS SSD.

IMG_8782.JPG

Edited by Rikkard Steele

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7 hours ago, Beatty said:

I mentioned the Bridge Size issue over a dozen times over 5 different threads and not one person has ever tried to address it and instead just insinuates I'm being disruptive to the one sided discussion. I just want to make sure if there is going to be a continued discussion that those who question the need and actual ability to have an SSD in the game without it being completely out of place is heard. 

I agree with you on the Bridge size issue for EXECUTOR.  If it is in scale on the model, it just looks wrong on the table.  Which was why I abandoned having my SSD be EXECUTOR, and created the INEXORABLE Class as my aesthetic compromise...   

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well i thought this was an open discussion and i was voicing how i felt about an old tired argument . you among others have repeatedly objected to this ship on the basis of scale. that has been your only argument (as far as I can remember without going back thru the older threads). we are all well aware of yours and others who agree with you on how you feel about this. I will always welcome open discussion about the SSD or anything else where this game is concerned. FFG either will make this ship or they won't and they will not be Strong armed into do it by any of us here on the forum. as I said I am tired of those who oppose it using the "Scale" argument for their justification. this point has been made by several already. if that's how you feel than feel free to voice it. i am simply stating that i am tired of hearing this same thing over and over again. if the only reason for it not to be done is scale then i believe it is only a matter of time before it is released. i'm not here to just ignore your opinion and claim that mine is the only valid one or to convince you that your wrong and i'm right.. i am a diehard fan of this game (which i have made a substantial investment in) who wishes to see it continue to be successful and grow so that i may enjoy playing it for a very long time. so please everyone discuss away.

 

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51 minutes ago, Rikkard Steele said:

Are you talking about my INEXORABLE Class Ship?  I used an ISD Bridge to visually tie in the Scale of the SSD.  Though this represents the INEXORABLE CLASS SSD, which is 4.8 Km, not the 18 Km+ EXECUTOR CLASS SSD.

IMG_8782.JPG

That was the one. I'm sorry I got that ship class wrong, I thought I saw someone using that picture as an example for the Executor. 

 

But I did mention I liked the model and I still give it props!?? Now that I know that it's not an Executor I like its mock up even more. 

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29 minutes ago, solaria said:

well i thought this was an open discussion and i was voicing how i felt about an old tired argument . you among others have repeatedly objected to this ship on the basis of scale. that has been your only argument (as far as I can remember without going back thru the older threads). we are all well aware of yours and others who agree with you on how you feel about this. I will always welcome open discussion about the SSD or anything else where this game is concerned. FFG either will make this ship or they won't and they will not be Strong armed into do it by any of us here on the forum. as I said I am tired of those who oppose it using the "Scale" argument for their justification. this point has been made by several already. if that's how you feel than feel free to voice it. i am simply stating that i am tired of hearing this same thing over and over again. if the only reason for it not to be done is scale then i believe it is only a matter of time before it is released. i'm not here to just ignore your opinion and claim that mine is the only valid one or to convince you that your wrong and i'm right.. i am a diehard fan of this game (which i have made a substantial investment in) who wishes to see it continue to be successful and grow so that i may enjoy playing it for a very long time. so please everyone discuss away.

***Hopefully you take the following merely as an attempt to see more discussion but remove the annoyance of old arguments ***

Basically it seems like if everybody assumed that somehow the scale issue would be worked out, then you'd all be able to move on to the other relevant arguments for and against. So can we assume for the moment that magically the scale works? What then would keep somebody preferring NOT to see the SSD in the game, and what would convince people it SHOULD be in the game?

To split the discussion further:

Assuming they introduce epic scale to fit it:

Why does the game need this?
Why doesn't it?

Assuming they introduced the SSD into standard play:

Why does the game need such a massively powerful ship?
Why doesn't it?

 

Edited by NobodyInParticular

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27 minutes ago, solaria said:

well i thought this was an open discussion and i was voicing how i felt about an old tired argument . you among others have repeatedly objected to this ship on the basis of scale. that has been your only argument (as far as I can remember without going back thru the older threads). we are all well aware of yours and others who agree with you on how you feel about this. I will always welcome open discussion about the SSD or anything else where this game is concerned. FFG either will make this ship or they won't and they will not be Strong armed into do it by any of us here on the forum. as I said I am tired of those who oppose it using the "Scale" argument for their justification. this point has been made by several already. if that's how you feel than feel free to voice it. i am simply stating that i am tired of hearing this same thing over and over again. if the only reason for it not to be done is scale then i believe it is only a matter of time before it is released. i'm not here to just ignore your opinion and claim that mine is the only valid one or to convince you that your wrong and i'm right.. i am a diehard fan of this game (which i have made a substantial investment in) who wishes to see it continue to be successful and grow so that i may enjoy playing it for a very long time. so please everyone discuss away.

 

I actually did talk about its table size and how Armada is not as forgiving as X-Wing for movement and that an epic ship would block the hell out of everyone. And how would firing arcs would be felt with with a two base mount, and how many dice should represent its attack, how many commands should it be given, and on and on. But in the long discussion we covered a lot of that and came to the conclusion that there would have to be completely new epic rules for it and it would have to come in at a much weaker fire power than you would expect just to be balanced.

 

I don't blame you for not knowing that because that was a long long thread and a lot of that discussion got lost because the one issue we all got hung up on was the scale issue. So that's why we keep coming back to it and why I sound like a broken record. 

 

But that's how you all sound to me. 75% of the posts against my posts tend to be "The scale issue is not an issue because of the CR90 and I don't care. The Executor is coming soon." No one adds to the discussion and it is just people parroting the same post over and over. So I keep bringing it back to the main issue that no one wants to discuss. The terribly obvious shape and bridge of the Executor at that small of a scale. It would be an eye sore, not the glorious ship we saw in ESB.

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Just to through in my 2 cents. . . while I would love an in-scale properly proportioned SSD, I'd probably never be able to afford it. So I'd be perfectly happy with a down-scaled version (heck, even one only slightly bigger than the ISD), so long as the stats were nice. If you want it to fit, call it something like 'Executer-mini' or, as Rikkard did, think up some entirely new SSD class. I just want the shape at an affordable price, not the size. . . I'll let my imagination increase that. . .

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Alright, time to turn the tables on the "scale purists".

 

Why does scale matter?

If its for thematic reasons then why is it ok to field you commander on a transport and send him off to a corner of the board? Or imperial fleets that dont have a single normal tie fighter?  Fireballs?  The inability of an VSD to kill an xwing squadron by itself in a 6 turn game, lets not forget the Correllian Corvette that are pound for pound harder hitting than an ISD, (although I found it incredibly humorous that the "unscaliness" of the Correllian Corvette can be completely dismissed and considered "acceptable" simply because its small to begin with as if it obvious and you're an idiot for not knowing this).  Yet for us to even fathom that we could fudge the size of a SSD to make it playable in Armada is completely unacceptable... period.   So again... why does scale matter?

If its realism concerns... you're playing a space game on a two dimensional playing field and ... never mind you can wikipedia physics if you want to go down that road.  And again... why does scale matter?

 

The whole scale argument always brings me back to how critics of sci fi movies will accept the impossible because sci fi doesn't work without it, yet then scream when a movie does the improbable.

 

So before you start answering with the "shrinking something that should be 6' down to 18" is so far out of scale its unacceptable" why?  I mean from FFGs perspective most likely no matter what they do they'll undoubtably make money from people buying a SSD simply becuase its a sweet looking model... thats why they keep making epic scale X-wing ships because people keep buying them... trust me they wouldn't make them if people were so offended by the scale that they refused to buy them.

 

I guess in the end my ultimate final question is why do you care so much what size it is?  You play this game becuase the models look sweet, the game is fun, and the community is spectacular (for the most part... who let the potato in?), so why lose it over the word "Executor"?

 

 

 

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i would love to send the Death squadron against a rebel armada. have a rebel wolf pack hunt a lone SSD or play out the battle of Endor. which is part of the reason i still have both my SSD's from that other game.

do i think we need an Epic Scale game?

no i don't, there are very few ships in star wars that are this size ( Executer only had 12 sisters) and i believe the game can handle these ships as is. to me the question is one of how much hull, firepower etc... i love the Inexorable and while she is not meant to be Big E i believe that she could be one of the Asserter Class Dreadnoughts and that the Bellator on down could be set between there and the ISD. 

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8 minutes ago, PartyPotato said:

Alright, time to turn the tables on the "scale purists".

 

Why does scale matter?

If its for thematic reasons then why is it ok to field you commander on a transport and send him off to a corner of the board? Or imperial fleets that dont have a single normal tie fighter?  Fireballs?  The inability of an VSD to kill an xwing squadron by itself in a 6 turn game, lets not forget the Correllian Corvette that are pound for pound harder hitting than an ISD, (although I found it incredibly humorous that the "unscaliness" of the Correllian Corvette can be completely dismissed and considered "acceptable" simply because its small to begin with as if it obvious and you're an idiot for not knowing this).  Yet for us to even fathom that we could fudge the size of a SSD to make it playable in Armada is completely unacceptable... period.   So again... why does scale matter?

If its realism concerns... you're playing a space game on a two dimensional playing field and ... never mind you can wikipedia physics if you want to go down that road.  And again... why does scale matter?

 

The whole scale argument always brings me back to how critics of sci fi movies will accept the impossible because sci fi doesn't work without it, yet then scream when a movie does the improbable.

 

So before you start answering with the "shrinking something that should be 6' down to 18" is so far out of scale its unacceptable" why?  I mean from FFGs perspective most likely no matter what they do they'll undoubtably make money from people buying a SSD simply becuase its a sweet looking model... thats why they keep making epic scale X-wing ships because people keep buying them... trust me they wouldn't make them if people were so offended by the scale that they refused to buy them.

 

I guess in the end my ultimate final question is why do you care so much what size it is?  You play this game becuase the models look sweet, the game is fun, and the community is spectacular (for the most part... who let the potato in?), so why lose it over the word "Executor"?

 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, PartyPotato said:

Do you know what solves the table size and galactic bumper car problem... drum roll please... making the SSD smaller.

 

3 minutes ago, solaria said:

i would love to send the Death squadron against a rebel armada. have a rebel wolf pack hunt a lone SSD or play out the battle of Endor. which is part of the reason i still have both my SSD's from that other game.

do i think we need an Epic Scale game?

no i don't, there are very few ships in star wars that are this size ( Executer only had 12 sisters) and i believe the game can handle these ships as is. to me the question is one of how much hull, firepower etc... i love the Inexorable and while she is not meant to be Big E i believe that she could be one of the Asserter Class Dreadnoughts and that the Bellator on down could be set between there and the ISD. 

Hear hear!

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16 minutes ago, NobodyInParticular said:

Just to through in my 2 cents. . . while I would love an in-scale properly proportioned SSD, I'd probably never be able to afford it. So I'd be perfectly happy with a down-scaled version (heck, even one only slightly bigger than the ISD), so long as the stats were nice. If you want it to fit, call it something like 'Executer-mini' or, as Rikkard did, think up some entirely new SSD class. I just want the shape at an affordable price, not the size. . . I'll let my imagination increase that. . .

And this is a common belief for many people but it is not the entire community. So while it would be "good enough" for you it would be like FFG giving me a middle finger. I would love an SSD (Dreadnaught) if they did it right model and rules wise. If they can't do it right then I pray they don't do it. Because if they did do a model without playtesting it to death for game balance and made sure the model looked like it belonged J can tell you most of those begging for it now would hate it if it didn't meet your expectations. Star Wars fans are not forgiving 90% of the time and I am making a case for it before a mistake is made. 

 

I dont know know how many times I've seen Star Wars fans beg for something new and then complain on and on forever when it's not done the way they wanted it. Think of Rebels. (which I actually like.) How many fans beg for a new show after Clone Wars was cancelled but are now complaining like mad because it's art direction and story direction didn't go the way they wanted? I still hear people complaining about Rogue One! Hell, people still complain about the Prequels and that was over a decade ago. So if you were FFG and heard wish listing and then read all the complaints about the Squadrons and Flotillas being broken (which I think are fine) would you be ready to drop an element that would change how the game is played that is more game breaking than those elements? 

 

So in a way I am advocating for those that don't see their own pickiness yet. I am advocating for the game to remain excellent and for them not to rush out a bad product we all would hate after the new plastic smell wore off. I'm advocating for you!

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