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Blail Blerg

Movement talk - The flying of the Batwing

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I've now been able to try the Batwing out for 3 games, and a few short ones with 2 batwings!  I played a lot of Palp aces and I used Palpshuttle very aggressively for good effect.  
The problem is I've been finding my old movement and battle plan which was carefully detailed isn't working as well. 

Show me, what are your flight patterns for the Upsilon shuttle?


[Since Palp is nerfed I might as well spill my SECRETS:  The trick to Palp Aces was to set up far back in the corner ACROSS from aces in the center, so you could do a 2 hard and run across your side of the board if faced with overwhelming alpha, or go slowly straight to add Palp as damage.  And slower was generally better, but the 2slights and 3 straights were crucial moves.  Late game, if the shuttle passed the opponent, no big deal,, just keep Palping.  Turning around with a Hal health shuttle tended to just lose me the shuttle, a note of the base 10hp being slowly chipped away.   In this set up, the Lambda usually ended up being a really good 3 dice attacker from a flank!  The slowest flank ever.  It also gave me control of the ground of the battle, usually the clearest area without rocks, on my side of the board, letting me clutter his side with ease! (Seriously, these are huge secrets for all you lovely former who want to play Lambda Palp.  Its still fun. )]

crucial very demanding differences between Lambda and Upsilon:
1.  Upsilon doesn't have 1 banks green.  This severely inhibits the slow flank I perfected with the Lambda.  To follow that up, the fast moves are really really really ill advised and really not useful.  
2.  Added to 1:  the Upsilon REQUIRES doing damage with it, unlike the Lambda, so, the passed Upsilon is much much much sadder than a passed Lambda.  In this sense, you need to shove the Upsilon into the battle.  If slowly.  Preferably again, as a flank from the back, as opposed to the main direction of straight combat, which makes you fly past.  
3.  Upsilon is not HP cost efficient.  9points for 2 more hp (and 4th die) is actually very brittle for hp.  It is much easier to down than expected, due to how much value gets placed in it.  Having so much firepower rest in the thing at 30 points at PS2 is also a hinderance.  
4.  Coordinate seems to be a trap:  You lose your own Focus for 4 die attacks, and its really hard to lash a ship to the Upsilon's flight pattern.  

Movement observations: 
1.  Being in the middle of the board stationary blasting at stuff like a naval fort is really good and really cost efficient.  Come from a corner, make your way to the board center, while they chase something else.  Profit. 
2.  The turns seem rarely used.  =(. Too many rocks in the way. 
3.  An occasional 2 slight is great for being scary and relevant.  
4.  For some reason, Ups feels way derpier than a Lambda.  Even though it has the better dial.  I think its the problem of efficiency requirement with that 4 dice for 30 points.  
5.  2 Upsilons are best deployed one in the corner, other close to a R2 cornered rock near the other corner.  This exact set up lets you engage the center and end up having the 2 Upsilons face each other, making a huge kill zone.  The detail in placement lets you get shots from both ships regardless which way your opponent goes.  If you do both corners, you'll be too far with one ship and you'll suffer on first engagement. 

Upgrades recommendations??? 
1. Tried Stridan/ System Off - Greens are really eck. 
2.  E Baffle - These are okay.  Really recommended for 1 Upsilon, not good for 2 Upsilons. Flight pattern changes. 
3.  FCS, recommended for 2 Ups.  Decent for 1, but you're likely getting only 2 uses out of it. And probably only on generics/derps with low mobility. 
4.  Palp?? 
5. Kylo Ren crew - supposedly great, but I rarely got it to activate in the Ups. 
6. Vader crew - use sparingly.  Good, but the Ups is rather exp.  Suggested with Baffle. 
7.  Kylo Shuttle title - this is great, its a thorn in the sides of Attanni, but only ever a thorn.  I highly recommend this upgrade whenever possible.  
What have you tried? 

 

Edited by Blail Blerg

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I tried Starkiller with Baffles and Fleet Officer, flown with two TIE/D's with ion cannons. I think it could do better than I did with it, but I was up against two SLAM'ing bombing K-wings and Ahsoka with Captured TIE. I only got one shot off with the Ups. I did manage to load up my /D's with focus tokens a few times, but I burned a lot of hp using the Baffles to stay stress free so that I could avoid the overly fast green maneuvers. The end result may be that the Ups burned down from baffling so much that it may have not been worth the points. 

But it was fun, and I'm going to keep trying!

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1 minute ago, J1mBob said:

I tried Starkiller with Baffles and Fleet Officer, flown with two TIE/D's with ion cannons. I think it could do better than I did with it, but I was up against two SLAM'ing bombing K-wings and Ahsoka with Captured TIE. I only got one shot off with the Ups. I did manage to load up my /D's with focus tokens a few times, but I burned a lot of hp using the Baffles to stay stress free so that I could avoid the overly fast green maneuvers. The end result may be that the Ups burned down from baffling so much that it may have not been worth the points. 

But it was fun, and I'm going to keep trying!

Talk about the flight pattern.  what did you do? 

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I've ran mine several times now and I really like Major Stridan with systems officer and General Hux. Do a green move and it's one TL and up to 3 focus tokens up to range 3. I almost always leave the Fanatical Devotion focus on the Upsilon. I find that when you shoot those 4-5 reds, you're more likely to need a focus and also when you're rolling your one green less likely to need it. Also Fanatical Devotion is good too.

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15 minutes ago, JJFDVORAK said:

I've ran mine several times now and I really like Major Stridan with systems officer and General Hux. Do a green move and it's one TL and up to 3 focus tokens up to range 3. I almost always leave the Fanatical Devotion focus on the Upsilon. I find that when you shoot those 4-5 reds, you're more likely to need a focus and also when you're rolling your one green less likely to need it. Also Fanatical Devotion is good too.

What movement did you do to set up Stridan, and in comparison to the alias he helped? 

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Honestly I was about to PM you for further discussions, but turns out you made a post already! :lol: 
As I mentioned in the other thread, I will share my observations on how to fly Stridan and only him. I haven't figured out to fly the rest yet basically.

When I think of Stridan, I see him as the natural evolution of Colonel Jendon. To make Jendon (26) work, you need at least ST-321 (3). This is 29 pts total. Naked Stridan comes at 32 pts, with higher primary, workable dials (more on this later) and HP overall. Comparing their ability, Stridan doesn't require you to telegraph your Target Lock, he doesn't have to stay at Range 1 of friendly ships due to his ability and thanks to coordinate, the shared action can be everything else your action bar permits.

I suppose we need a reference list to see how he works, so here goes:

99 pts (97 without title, 98 without title + inspiring recruit)
Major Stridan (32) + Advanced Sensors (3) + Systems Officer (2) + Kylo Shuttle title (2)
Soontir Fel (27) + Push the Limit (3) + Royal Guard TIE (0) + Autothrusters (2) + Targeting Computer (2)
Omega Leader (21) + Juke (2) + Comms Relay (3)

Deployment Phase
Deploy Stridan everywhere he can perform straight 1 maneuver and/or 2 banks later on. No specific arrangements for aces. You can deploy Soontir and OL anywhere as long as they are at Range 1-3 of Stridan by the first engagement

On Flying Stridan
1. Never perform Stop (!) maneuver unless you have a really good reason to do so (bump aces, perform traffic congestion, etc.)
2. Always do green unless the rocks don't permit you to do so. Between choosing a white/stop maneuver to maintain aces in arc and green to trigger coordinate and systems officer, always do the later. Your opponent aces are, for lack of better word, aces. They gonna do their best to arc dodge the threat of 4 dice attacks. Let them do their job properly. 
3. Always try to make Stridan stay within R3 of your aces. There's plenty of space to maneuver so this will not be a problem in most cases. 
4. When Stridan is about to stray outside R3, do 1/2/3 hard maneuvers. Doing so allows you to regroup AND bring the 4-dice threat back into the fray
5. His actions will ALWAYS be coordinate, nothing else. Advanced sensors is there to ensure you get to coordinate your aces.
6. Stridan's 4-dice primary and the title acts as a perfect no-fly zone deterrent. It makes your opponent aces more predictable.

If the above rules sounds nonsensical, it rewards you these in return:

The ability to completely shatter your opponent's expectations to predict the movement of your aces
1. Soontir gets to do shenanigans through coordinate. This implies a number of things.
i. You can perform up to 4 actions per turn (1 coordinated action + 1 from PTL + 1 focus from stress + clear stress with green maneuver for 1 more action), 5 actions with Systems officer. Plus he ends the round stressless
ii. A Bumped soontir still gets to do at least 3 actions. The 'bumped Soontir is a dead Soontir' school of thought is no longer a thing.
iii. A K-turning Soontir gets to do at least 2 actions (1 from coordinate + 1 focus due to stress), 3 actions with Systems officer.
iv. He is no longer a turtle. With lots of tokens and the ability to deliver the blow at range 1, would you really say he's still toothless?
v. Him K-turning is bizzare enough, remember that he can Pre-barrel roll or pre-boost before doing so. Can you block him, really?

2. OL gets to do shenanigans as well.
i. In the opening  round, you can catch an opponent offguard by coordinating him to evade and perform straight 5 to Target Lock the opponent. That's a full OL flavor in round one!
ii. Blocked/K-turning OL can end the activation phase with all of his tokens back (focus/evade/TL)
iii. You can easily prey on tokenless ships. No more worries on spending the Target Lock, plus your juke still crackshots a tokenless ship. Soontir can help with chipping off the tokens. OL still gets his TL back next round. Everyone is happy.

Closing Thoughts

In the reference list above, Kylo Ren's Shuttle title is a good control piece, however you can replace it to taste with your local meta. Inspiring recruit + 2 pt initiative is also a good option to anticipate the return of stresshogs / stressbarons.

These aces were considered as weak hitters in the past. No longer. Don't like the aces? it's fine! you can swap many other options like whisper+OL , backdraft+Inquisitor or Rexler expertise + OL! 

Stridan is better than palp in the new meta. he is the Lord of Shenanigans.

Edited to remove Mara Jade and swap her with Kylo Ren's Shuttle. Better control piece at 1 less pt

Edited by Grivoire

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5 minutes ago, Grivoire said:

snip.  good things.

Stridan is better than palp in the new meta. he is the Lord of Shenanigans.

But, are the shenanigans, or meta winning moves?  

One thing is flying soontir with no bid Imo is a no-no.  A weird Fenn Rau list will eat you alive, because of 1 point. 
To that end, I prefer Baffle to your Adv sensors.  Or Mara Jade -> Kylo Shuttle title.  Do you find that Adv Sen lets you do coordinates from starting position and lets you be more relevant instead of flying away form the battle?  

What is an example of a good set up?  

How good was your primary then, since you lack focus?  Standard luck says that 4 naked dice only gives you 2 hits average. (I rolled a whole bunch of 1 hits WITH Focus lol).  

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1 minute ago, Blail Blerg said:

But, are the shenanigans, or meta winning moves?  

One thing is flying soontir with no bid Imo is a no-no.  A weird Fenn Rau list will eat you alive, because of 1 point. 
To that end, I prefer Baffle to your Adv sensors.  Or Mara Jade -> Kylo Shuttle title.  Do you find that Adv Sen lets you do coordinates from starting position and lets you be more relevant instead of flying away form the battle?  

What is an example of a good set up?  

How good was your primary then, since you lack focus?  Standard luck says that 4 naked dice only gives you 2 hits average. (I rolled a whole bunch of 1 hits WITH Focus lol).  

 

As I mentioned, Mara Jade can be replaced to match your local meta. My local meta doesn't bother with initiative bid :). I mentioned about possible changes in the closing thoughts.

However, you should never replace adv sensors. If Stridan has to venture through the rocks/perform red maneuvers/bump ships, he can always do the coordinate. Also, Stridan is supposed to move with your aces. as I've mentioned, we need to leave Lambda's way of flying to make the best use of it. He carries no palp. Push him forward. If he tanks your aces, good. If they attempt to hit your aces, even better. Stridan can stay awhile longer.

Don't bother shooting with Stridan. If you get any shots from him at all, that's a nice bonus already. If he gets a shot and roll 3-4 hits, it's a payday. His numbers are more of a show-off to threaten your opponents. To deter him from coming face front against him. That makes your opponent predictable.

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3 minutes ago, Grivoire said:

As I mentioned, Mara Jade can be replaced to match your local meta. My local meta doesn't bother with initiative bid :). I mentioned about possible changes in the closing thoughts.

However, you should never replace adv sensors. If Stridan has to venture through the rocks/perform red maneuvers/bump ships, he can always do the coordinate. Also, Stridan is supposed to move with your aces. as I've mentioned, we need to leave Lambda's way of flying to make the best use of it. He carries no palp. Push him forward. If he tanks your aces, good. If they attempt to hit your aces, even better. Stridan can stay awhile longer.

Don't bother shooting with Stridan. If you get any shots from him at all, that's a nice bonus already. If he gets a shot and roll 3-4 hits, it's a payday. His numbers are more of a show-off to threaten your opponents. To deter him from coming face front against him. That makes your opponent predictable.

That is mind numbing to me.  No shots from 40% of your list?  

Maybe we live in really different metas.  But also:  Is your meta more squirrel-y and are you playing more cautiously with Soontir and OL?  True ace movement?  Cuz, in our area that difference of losing firepower is huge.  It'll easily lose you the game it seems. 

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5 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

That is mind numbing to me.  No shots from 40% of your list?  

Maybe we live in really different metas.  But also:  Is your meta more squirrel-y and are you playing more cautiously with Soontir and OL?  True ace movement?  Cuz, in our area that difference of losing firepower is huge.  It'll easily lose you the game it seems. 

 

Yes no shots from 40% of your list, as opposed to 30% of your list when using palpshuttle. They get about the same rate of in-arc time in a typical game so it's not much of a difference honestly I know this is mind boggling, but do give it a try.

My local meta does have everything the top table has currently. Parattanis, Commonwealth defenders, K-Wing bombers, superdash etc. This list fares quite well against those. You have to play very safe OR very aggressively (like Kturning with Soontir). Surprise is the main element of this list. 

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1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

Talk about the flight pattern.  what did you do? 

Since I was flying against K-wings, I though I would try flying along the edge of the map to limit their ability to slam past me. Near the middle of the side, I turned hard inward and spent the next four rounds doing red stops, baffling, fleet officer'ing, baffling that stress too, and k-turning the /D's back and forth near the Ups. It prevented my opponent from getting behind me and also presented a navigational hazard for him, but he only needed to take a few shots at it to finish it off since I did most of the damage for him. 

I was ok with losing the Ups first, since that was the plan all along. I don't think the Ups is going to purposefully be the late game ship for many players. But all that baffling really added up. I don't think the Ups pulled its weight before being removed. But as noted previously, it could have been flown better by someone better. 

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Epsilon Leader.

With Pattern Analizer, Weapon guidance and recon spec on the Upsilons and Comm relay on E.L. you can keep your back to the corner until the enemy fly into your double sledgehammers, then chase them down.

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12 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

Epsilon Leader.

With Pattern Analizer, Weapon guidance and recon spec on the Upsilons and Comm relay on E.L. you can keep your back to the corner until the enemy fly into your double sledgehammers, then chase them down.

Lol fortnress?  meh.  I'm meh about fortress.  

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I wonder what you could get out of a more mobile Upsilon? Paired with a PWT or aces I think it could work really well. Set up on one edge of the board so you have to be approached from the front or one side and turn when needed. Daredevil, engine upgrade, pattern analyzer, fire control system and you can turn like this for one stress 
Start 
 JxfBzcA.jpg

White hard 2
 rhpv1zj.jpg

Daredevil white hard 1 (1 stress) 

k285qo6.jpg

Profit? 

Edited by Goseki1

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I flew PS2 Ups at the Denver Regional, going 4-2 on the day.  I lost to some amazing dice paratanni (beat another one) and to an ace-killer 3x (T70) list with Snapshot stressbot Nien Numb, Poe, and Jess - I totally wasn't expecting this.  I paired this with PS10 Vader and PS10 Duchess for max arc-dodging capabilities, I was at 100 points.

My UPS build:

Starkiller Base Pilot (PS2), Palp, Electronic Baffle, HyperWave Comm - 40 points

Reasoning:  HyperWave allows you to set the shuttle down at PS12, which is ideal for getting placed for the first engagement.  Baffle lets you sit still multiple turns in a row, preferably on the edge of the rock field, while still performing that all important focus action.

Strategy:  I tried getting the rocks as close together as possible, making a tight rockfield somewhere on the map.  I would make sure to place the shuttle down last in one of the corners, angled in at 45 degrees in, closest to that rock field.  My aces were usually very close by.  I'd go opposite the opponent's deployment.  I would then park a turn or force a bump with an ace unless the rock field was more in their side.  At that point I would 2 or 3 bank down the side to get the shuttle towards that edge.  If I parked, I just needed to see an opening move.  I wanted to make sure that the shuttle did a turn into the rock field between a couple rocks, with my aces flanking either side.  Having the shuttle sit at the rock field edge meant that I could park there and usually opponents were going after aces, leaving 4 or 5 dice shots at PS2, maybe with Palp help.  If they did go after the shuttle, they maybe got one shot before bumping, going over a rock to get behind, and leaving either situation with an ace flanking them pretty hard at range 1.  12 Hitpoints means you can baffle a LOT!  In the streamed game I think I baffled 4 times before finally moving the shuttle onward.  I lost 20 points of MOV on that game.  I found that I almost always lost 20 points of MOV with this list and how I fly, sometimes 40.  Rarely would an Ace die.

Post FAQ, I would still run this list exactly as before.  I had LWF on Duchess, so you know if you really need to use Palp on her or not with that last die right before you roll.  Vader can take a hit or two.  

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1 minute ago, jonnyd said:

I flew PS2 Ups at the Denver Regional, going 4-2 on the day.  I lost to some amazing dice paratanni (beat another one) and to an ace-killer 3x (T70) list with Snapshot stressbot Nien Numb, Poe, and Jess - I totally wasn't expecting this.  I paired this with PS10 Vader and PS10 Duchess for max arc-dodging capabilities, I was at 100 points.

My UPS build:

Starkiller Base Pilot (PS2), Palp, Electronic Baffle, HyperWave Comm - 40 points

Reasoning:  HyperWave allows you to set the shuttle down at PS12, which is ideal for getting placed for the first engagement.  Baffle lets you sit still multiple turns in a row, preferably on the edge of the rock field, while still performing that all important focus action.

Strategy:  I tried getting the rocks as close together as possible, making a tight rockfield somewhere on the map.  I would make sure to place the shuttle down last in one of the corners, angled in at 45 degrees in, closest to that rock field.  My aces were usually very close by.  I'd go opposite the opponent's deployment.  I would then park a turn or force a bump with an ace unless the rock field was more in their side.  At that point I would 2 or 3 bank down the side to get the shuttle towards that edge.  If I parked, I just needed to see an opening move.  I wanted to make sure that the shuttle did a turn into the rock field between a couple rocks, with my aces flanking either side.  Having the shuttle sit at the rock field edge meant that I could park there and usually opponents were going after aces, leaving 4 or 5 dice shots at PS2, maybe with Palp help.  If they did go after the shuttle, they maybe got one shot before bumping, going over a rock to get behind, and leaving either situation with an ace flanking them pretty hard at range 1.  12 Hitpoints means you can baffle a LOT!  In the streamed game I think I baffled 4 times before finally moving the shuttle onward.  I lost 20 points of MOV on that game.  I found that I almost always lost 20 points of MOV with this list and how I fly, sometimes 40.  Rarely would an Ace die.

Post FAQ, I would still run this list exactly as before.  I had LWF on Duchess, so you know if you really need to use Palp on her or not with that last die right before you roll.  Vader can take a hit or two.  

What was the rest of your list? 

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Same mentality i have with any 4die ship: i dont even attempt to close and getting any shot at all is awesome.

I usually deploy it sideways (not cornered, i can never get that right to do a 1bank into a straight position anyway) and depending on where my opponent set up i either 2Turn or 1-3 Bank.

Probably the best list ive had so far is:

Major Striden: 41
Baffles (1)
Hux (5)
Recruit (1)
PA (2)

Ryad: 35
Juke (2)
Mk2 (1)

x7 (-2)

Sabaac: 24
Adapt (0)
LWF (2)
Title (0)

Total: 100

PA + Recruit = i can Hux even on a red turn, and i abuse the crap out of that. 1turns throw people off so much on a large base, even if its been common for them for a long time. If i dont think i can get away with a 1fwd or 2bank to clear stress i'll baffles + recruit it off (To those who harp on "Its not saying remove" show me where remove and discard are two different entities, because in the English language they are synonymous with each other)

Hux's auto damage is awesome, and Stridan lets me reach that wide flanker Sabaac since hes usually outside range2. I find this thing vastly easier to fly than the Lambda purely because it has more than 1 turn available, even if 4 of the 6 of them are red.

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1 hour ago, jonnyd said:

Post FAQ, I would still run this list exactly as before.  I had LWF on Duchess, so you know if you really need to use Palp on her or not with that last die right before you roll.

I really liked your post and description, but this in particular is brilliant!

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I have been looking at this:

 

Major Stridan

IR

Hux

EI

FCS

Soontir Fel

Rage

Autothrusters

Title

Hull

Epsilon Leader

Tie MKII

Comm Relay

 

The thought is Stridan moves. uses coordinate to allow Soontir to Rage. Soontir gets 1 focus from rage thaen gets the first stress, gets a focus, gets second stress, gets 3rd focus. then Stridan uses EI to Hux placing fanatical devotion on himself giving a 4th focus to Soontir. then Soontir moves with a green manuever. Inspiring recruit removes the second stress leaving soontir open for the boost or barrel roll or to take an evade. start of combat Epsilon removes a stress from Stridan. yes he has to do a green the next turn but 4 focuses and an evade with no stress and rerolls from rage on Soontir might be fun.

 

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I found flying Kylo Pilot to be the most beneficial.  I can now out PS lower flankers to move behind them.  I know that I'll likely occupy the space of my own ships once they move minimizing blocks and thus opening up actions.  This makes for a long jousting list preventing defenders from K turning behind in a single turn.

coordinate can be clutch to BR guys off of rocks or give actions post bump if they gotta live.  It's also a mini decloak for squirrelly aces.

I set up in the corner at a 45 and get my ships ahead of its flight path along a side.  Then let my opponent come to me.

 

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First time i ran the UPS i did a bit of a joker list that was surprisingly effective.

Kylo Pilot 49

Daredevil (3)
FCS (2)
EU (4)
Rebel Captive (3)
Recruit (1)
Pattern Analyzer (2)

Yeah, hes mostly unmodded unless you 1turn into a PA'd Daredevil 1turn (Recruit to remove the double stress) and get the same target with FCS twice, but it largely didnt matter. And HOLY CRAP HE MOVED - in one game i had him in all corners of the map at one point either chasing someone or zipping around a rock and i usually didnt have a round without any shots.

By no means a competitive build but it was hilarious lol

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3 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

What was the rest of your list? 

My full list:

SKB Pilot/Palp/Baffle/Hyperwave Comm - 40 points

Vader/Adaptability/Title/ATC/Engine - 34 points

Duchess/VI/LWF/Title - 26 points

I honestly went back and forth the week before leaving LWF off Duchess, leaving Hyperwave Comm off Shuttle, and giving Vader Prockets.  The slight changup removing prockets really helped!  LWF saved Duchess a number of times with palp backup during the tournament, and I would expect the same results even post FAQ.  Also Coordinate is a massive boon to the batwing.  I waxed a Corran Horn by rocketing the shuttle forward, coordinating Vader to boost and block corran's green outlet, and pulling Duchess in behind.  Duchess and Shuttle both had Range 1 shots against an actionless Corran.  I don't know if I'd like the restrictions of Coordinate action on a higher PS shuttle or with aces that stress (Fel/Carnor) most of the time.  If and when I used Coordinate, it was because I could get a ship behind a rock the turn before and coordinate a free barrel roll the next turn.

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9 hours ago, jonnyd said:

My full list:

SKB Pilot/Palp/Baffle/Hyperwave Comm - 40 points

Vader/Adaptability/Title/ATC/Engine - 34 points

Duchess/VI/LWF/Title - 26 points

I honestly went back and forth the week before leaving LWF off Duchess, leaving Hyperwave Comm off Shuttle, and giving Vader Prockets.  The slight changup removing prockets really helped!  LWF saved Duchess a number of times with palp backup during the tournament, and I would expect the same results even post FAQ.  Also Coordinate is a massive boon to the batwing.  I waxed a Corran Horn by rocketing the shuttle forward, coordinating Vader to boost and block corran's green outlet, and pulling Duchess in behind.  Duchess and Shuttle both had Range 1 shots against an actionless Corran.  I don't know if I'd like the restrictions of Coordinate action on a higher PS shuttle or with aces that stress (Fel/Carnor) most of the time.  If and when I used Coordinate, it was because I could get a ship behind a rock the turn before and coordinate a free barrel roll the next turn.

I kinda like this list too, though I think Vader and Duchess are a lot squishier now without Palp's ez-mode use.  

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