Boogiepop

Allowing for later entry into LCGs

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LCGs as they are currently structured have a very large problem with onboarding after the first few releases. Due to the rate and volume of releases, it becomes increasingly prohibitive, both in a monetary and a learning curve sense, it becomes completely infeasible for new players to take up the game. If anything, the main advantage of LCGs, the fixed cards sets, becomes a disadvantage, as not having EVERYTHING can increasingly become an issue. What can be done to help migiate these issues, so anyone can start playing at any time and not be buried under the huge cost and number of cards?

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First of all, why should you be getting all the releases? You can pick a new set up, see if you like the game, and then start working on the latest releases. And if you don't want to play competitive, you don't need that many packs to have fun.

Then you can consider playing coop LCGs. This means that even if you don't have a state of the art deck, you'll have a lot of fun. And in any case from one core set and the first 6 chapter packs from LotR I pulled out around 300 plays, and I'm still not done playing those (love love love), so, it's 130 EUR total, easily discountable on line.

Furthermore, there are a couple of games which are relatively new, such as AGoT 2nd edition or the just released AH LCG that shouldn't require too much money to get all the instalments in said lines.

Finally, there's a brand new one being released in 5 months from now, Legend of the 5 Rings, which means you can get that one without having to "recover" any of the lost packs.

In any case, for competitive play, there's a rotation, so that the oldest cycles are not considered legal for tournament. Don't remember exactly how back in time you need to go for these, but still, rotation was created to allow new players to join the madness

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3 hours ago, Julia said:

First of all, why should you be getting all the releases? You can pick a new set up, see if you like the game, and then start working on the latest releases. And if you don't want to play competitive, you don't need that many packs to have

Furthermore, there are a couple of games which are relatively new, such as AGoT 2nd edition or the just released AH LCG that shouldn't require too much money to get all the instalments in said lines.

Finally, there's a brand new one being released in 5 months from now, Legend of the 5 Rings, which means you can get that one without having to "recover" any of the lost packs.

I think he means "getting into a (long running) existing LCG".* Where jumping in after a few cycles can seem a bit financially daunting.

If you buy all the packs at once. I did that with CoC LCG. Bought the core and everything up to and including the dreamlands cycle in one go. The packs were cheaper then, but still not something I'd advise- or repeat. (Oh who am I kidding, I would do that again.)

You have a point about not needing every pack of course. And one can very easily find out what cards are in wich packs. Especially if a cycle has certain themes. If you are Lucky you can possibly skip an entire cycle that focuses on mechanism you don't like playing with. On the other hand you could find yourself with the best cards for your faction scattered over a large number of packs.

 

* Wich, I guess,  are down to 3 at this point: Star Wars, LOTR and Netrunner. Agot 2nd  and Arkham Horror are still fairly new, L5R isn't out yet and all the others are dead.

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Posted (edited)

The trick is not buying all the packs at once.* Say it costs 200 dollars to buy everything for a LCG back to the beginning. If you buy it all at once you're down 200 bucks. While people who started when the game came out spent that amount over a series of months/years.  But in the end they have spent just as much as you have. And yes I know theres a huge difference between having a small amount of disposable income per month to spend on games and having enough dineros to buy up an entire LCG range in one go.

My point is, don't try to catch up right away. Buy the core set and an expansion. And then later another expansion or two, and build decks with a small but ever expanding pool, like you would if you just got into a new LCG. This is great if you can get into the game with a few friends who are also new to it. (pretend the game just came out and have fun with your group!)

Now  the downside if you wanna play against people who have been playing longer than you, is that they will have more cards to build (in theory) a better deck with. Now, tournaments (for the longer running LCGs) will have set rotation (as Julia pointed out) wich means you only have to invest in a core set and the latest cycle(s) and you are good to play.

 

* Unless you luck out and your local LGS has a sale going on. I quit the SW LCG a while ago, because I was following several and it was getting to much. But I decide to only pick up the big expansions. And I also decided to wait untill my LGS had a buy 3 pay 2 deal and then I snatched them up.

You can also pick up product when a game ends. Now you will (probably) have nowhere near a complete set, but you should be able to get a ton of stuff, dirt cheap. Example: When they anounced AGOT 2nd edition my LGS put all the old packs out at -75% and the core set still at full price for some reason. After some fast talking with the store owner I picked up the core set for 50% off and every expansion at 75%. this gave me a lot of (and I mean a lot) of cards to play with.(yeah I can be a total vulture at times.)

A possible downside to buying a dying game is that you won't find as much players in your local area. But its great if you have a few friends who always wanted to give that game a try, but could not afford it.

Edited by Robin Graves

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In Netrunner there is the new campaign system. You need only 1 core box and the new Terminal Directive deluxe expansions all other expansions and cycles are prohibited in the campaign play but all campaign cards can be used in competitive play if you choose to continue with the game. This a great way to try the Android: Netrunner game system without the need to buy a lot of cards.

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12 hours ago, Julia said:

In any case, for competitive play, there's a rotation, so that the oldest cycles are not considered legal for tournament. Don't remember exactly how back in time you need to go for these, but still, rotation was created to allow new players to join the madness

Rotation is set up so that there are never more than 7 legal cycles (42 packs). When a new cycle starts that would make it more, the oldest 2 cycles rotate out (leaving 31 packs in the card pool). This means Netrunner has just begun its last cycle before rotation kicks the Genesis and Spin cycles out, while Star Wars still has 2 full cycles to go. LotR is excluded from rotation, because it's a coop, but that means you can get the cards at the pace you want. AGoT 2nd edition has 2 expansions and just began its 3rd cycle. Arkham just has 1 expansion and 1 pack so far.

Also, you can borrow cards if you ask nicely. It's a given for coop games (LotR and Arkham), and quite common for competitive ones.

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12 hours ago, Robin Graves said:

I think he means "getting into a (long running) existing LCG".* Where jumping in after a few cycles can seem a bit financially daunting.

 

Yep, I get that :) But as we both said, there are a few games that are pretty easy to jump into (AH LCG, AGoT 2nd edition, and the coming L5R); and if he wants to jump into LotR, it's not a problem either being the game coop. So, there are only two long-running games that could be problematic, and only in case he wants to go for competitive play: Android: Netrunner & Star Wars LCG. Thus, I don't see the original post's title particularly fitting at the moment. The real question should be: "how can I jump into Netrunner or SW now that so many packs are out", which can be solved by studying the existing decks and cards, and purchasing spot-on packs to get the needed cards. Or, as Khudzlin suggested, borrow the cards you need (didn't think it was an option, so, thanks for letting me know).

In any case, jumping in any LCG to be competitive at high level won't cost you more than jumping into Magic or SW: Destiny to play competitive at high level, I'd say.

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25 minutes ago, Julia said:

In any case, jumping in any LCG to be competitive at high level won't cost you more than jumping into Magic or SW: Destiny to play competitive at high level, I'd say.

Definitely not. Depending on the format, a single M:tG deck can cost more than a full LCG collection.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Julia said:

The real question should be: "how can I jump into Netrunner or SW now that so many packs are out", which can be solved by studying the existing decks and cards, and purchasing spot-on packs to get the needed cards. Or, as Khudzlin suggested, borrow the cards you need (didn't think it was an option, so, thanks for letting me know).

Yup, definitely this. Also, print paper proxies of cards you want to test and try out the whole card pool that way. Then, when you do have a competitive event to go to, you'll have refined your shopping/borrowing list.

(I bought into AGOT 1st edition just as the 8th cycle was beginning. Me and a couple of friends sort of assembled the card pool piecemeal amongst ourselves, kind of a team effort. Sure, everyone had their own copy of Pack X because you wanted three copies of Card Y and so did your friend, but where there wasn't overlap we saved a tremendous amount of money over time.)

Edited by Grimwalker

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20 hours ago, Tekwych said:

In Netrunner there is the new campaign system. You need only 1 core box and the new Terminal Directive deluxe expansions all other expansions and cycles are prohibited in the campaign play but all campaign cards can be used in competitive play if you choose to continue with the game. This a great way to try the Android: Netrunner game system without the need to buy a lot of cards.

Interesting. I'll probably get the prime directive -err the terminal directive.

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11 hours ago, Khudzlin said:

Definitely not. Depending on the format, a single M:tG deck can cost more than a full LCG collection.

Sadly enough you are correct.

Wich is why I play casual no rotation with a small group of friends. We play with everything (all the way back to Mirrodin) so we never know what our opponents are gonna bring. Boros vehicles vs infect vs zombie devotion. Stuff like that.

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12 hours ago, Julia said:

Yep, I get that :) But as we both said, there are a few games that are pretty easy to jump into (AH LCG, AGoT 2nd edition, and the coming L5R); and if he wants to jump into LotR, it's not a problem either being the game coop. So, there are only two long-running games that could be problematic, and only in case he wants to go for competitive play: Android: Netrunner & Star Wars LCG. Thus, I don't see the original post's title particularly fitting at the moment. The real question should be: "how can I jump into Netrunner or SW now that so many packs are out", which can be solved by studying the existing decks and cards, and purchasing spot-on packs to get the needed cards. Or, as Khudzlin suggested, borrow the cards you need (didn't think it was an option, so, thanks for letting me know).

In any case, jumping in any LCG to be competitive at high level won't cost you more than jumping into Magic or SW: Destiny to play competitive at high level, I'd say.

Forgot LOTR was co-op. That already makes a difference. I think for co-op games people are a bit more willing to lend you their spare decks.

Playing MTG casualy can be really cheap (maybe even cheaper than LCGs depending how much packs you buy) but playing tournaments... yeah no. (especially if the the meta swings towards multicolored and you get 3 color decks: the cost of the special lands to fix your mana alone are -phew!) And Destiny... From what I hear on the SWD forum: You're Lucky if you can find product.

I'm pretty hype for L5R tough!*

 

 

*Provided Spider clan is in!

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