Removing tokens according to Frank

[LordBlades 2,403]

Just got a rules question answered (yay )

 

 

 

In response to your rules question:

Rules Question:
Hi, I have recently come across the following issue: According to the Rules Reference (page 3) ' If an effect removes a blue or red target lock token from a ship, the matching red or blue target lock token is also removed (unless the blue target lock is assigned to another ship). What happens when you assign a red target lock to another ship using Manaroo's ability? Is it destroyed as you are removing it from Manaroo in the process therefore trigerring the above rule ? Best regards, Radu Puhalschi

No, since the token is being assigned to another ship and not being “removed” in the game sense, the friendly ship still has the red target lock token.

 

Thanks for playing,

 

Frank Brooks

Associate Creative Content Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

fbrooks@fantasyflightgames.com

 

 

 

So removing (plain English meaning) a token to assign it to another ship does not constitute removing (game meaning). Apart from settling a purely academic debate on Manaroo, this also means Inspiring Recruit doesn't interact with 4LOM in the way many people hoped.

[WWHSD 9,273]

I just received almost the same email:

In response to your rules question:

Rules Question:
When a token is reassigned does it count as being removed? Example: 4-LOM has Inspiring Recruit crew equiped. 4-LOM has two stress tokens. Luke Skywalker is at range 1. At the start of the end phase 4-LOM uses his ability to assign a stress token to Luke Skywalker. Which of the following happens:

A. One stress token is moved from 4-LOM to Luke. Inspiring recruit doesn't trigger since the stress token wasn't removed.
B. One stress token is moved from 4-LOM to Luke. Inspring recruit triggers allowing 4-LOM to discard a second stress token.
C. Something other than A. or B.

 

Assigning a token from your ship to another ship does not count as “removing” the token for the sake of abilities.

Edited March 9, 2017 by WWHSD

[kraedin 741]

Wonder if its safe to assume that "remove" is a keyword then. Probably means that Electronic Baffle doesn't work with Inspiring Recruit either.

[McLaine 58]

It would be helpful, but In the meantime, 'Do what the card says, not what it doesn't say' holds here.

Arguing that 'assigning', or 'discarding' a token is the same as 'removing' a token (in game terms) is by inference only. There are no rules to prove that this is true in game terms.

Edited March 10, 2017 by McLaine

[LordBlades 2,403]

3 hours ago, McLaine said:

It would be helpful, but In the meantime, 'Do what the card says, not what it doesn't say' holds here.

Arguing that 'assigning', or 'discarding' a token is the same as 'removing' a token (in game terms) is by inference only. There are no rules to prove that this is true in game terms.

The way I have always seen it in regards to game rules in general is that, unless a term is defined or inferred to have a specific game rules meaning, the plain English meaning of the word is applicable.

 

Remove was nowhere defined before and as such it wasn't entirely clear IMO if it was referring to removing a token from the table or simply removing it from the ship.

[InquisitorM 632]

11 hours ago, LordBlades said:

So removing (plain English meaning) a token to assign it to another ship does not constitute removing (game meaning). Apart from settling a purely academic debate on Manaroo, this also means Inspiring Recruit doesn't interact with 4LOM in the way many people hoped.

Well, I always said that it didn't really satisfy the literal definition of removing anyway. I think this is the literal interpretation of the rules. You're not removing the token, mut moving it from one place in the game to another. Removing would be it leaving the board.

I think this is the most logical interpretation.

[Goseki1 637]

I got the same email regarding Manaroo. I don't think anyway played it like that, but gosh if it wasn't a pointlessly irritating and circular argument XD

[digitalbusker 2,248]

13 hours ago, McLaine said:

It would be helpful, but In the meantime, 'Do what the card says, not what it doesn't say' holds here.

Arguing that 'assigning', or 'discarding' a token is the same as 'removing' a token (in game terms) is by inference only. There are no rules to prove that this is true in game terms.

That seems to be the way they're going to go, but we've always had to balance "do what the cards/rules say" with "don't overthink it."

Remember that before the timing chart there was no rule you could point to that said "after attacking" and "after defending" were the same timing window.

[McLaine 58]

Equally though, there was no rule you could point to that said they weren't.

[Orcdruid 500]

On 3/9/2017 at 6:34 PM, kraedin said:

Wonder if its safe to assume that "remove" is a keyword then. Probably means that Electronic Baffle doesn't work with Inspiring Recruit either.

If it did, you could still die after using Chewbacca crew because in order to discard something it has to still be in that limbo where its actually attached to the ship yet. And befor anyone mentions the difference between receiving and dealing, stress tokens are not dealt according to card texts, only received.