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Kdubb

Let's see if these forums really do have any sway on FFG by fixing bad cards

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58 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

Not according to those who are upset with the latest FAQ! They've made me realize that, as long as I grab enough buddies to post about the cards I want changed on these forums, it's pretty much guaranteed the changes will happen! Join in on the fun SotL! You were one of the ones who made this last FAQ happen! In fact, I'm pretty sure FFG takes your posts into account more than others because you even have a nifty blog! Don't you want to take some credit?? :lol:

I'm not at all interested in getting into that sort of childish ***-for-tat squabbling.

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1 hour ago, DeathstarII said:

This post made me lol, though I wouldn't mind seeing "fel's wrath" being competitive for once in history

Errata for Lightweight Frame:

TIE only.

When defending, after rolling defense dice, if there are more attack dice than defense dice, roll 1 additional defense die.

You cannot equip this card if your agility value is "3" or higher (or Fel's Wrath)

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1 hour ago, Kdubb said:

This is quite possibly the worst card in the game. Let's look at all the ways it sucks.

1) overcosted for its effect

2) takes up one of the most valuable upgrade slots in the game (crew)

3) has a highly restrictive range restriction

4) Is RNG based

5) Has a prerequisite to work (enemy ship must have a facedown damage card)

6) IT TAKES AN ACTION FOR A 50/50 CHANCE TO GET IT TO TRIGGER EVEN AFTER YOU MEET ALL THE PREREQUISITES

 

I almost thought you were writing about R3 Astromech there for a minute.

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1 hour ago, piznit said:

So that you don't even bother wasting points on them.  Versus something that *might* be useful, say against a certain opponent ship, but if your opponent isn't playing said cards, you've wasted your points.  Off the top of my head, lets say you equip Kallus as a crew member, and your opponents drops 8 academy TIES.  Not as useful as when he might deploy RAC/Fel or something

But how is ordnance niche?  I mean, it used to be pretty bad, but with GC and ordnance cards that don't make you discard the TL simply to fire (the thing that really makes them useful, IMHO), missiles and torps are pretty good now.

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2 hours ago, Kdubb said:

Not according to those who are upset with the latest FAQ! They've made me realize that, as long as I grab enough buddies to post about the cards I want changed on these forums, it's pretty much guaranteed the changes will happen!

If that were true, we would have had a XG-1 Gunboat meta for the last two years. 

Alas, these forums probably has less impact on FFG and the designers than the podcasts and the comments they get from people attending the events they assist to.

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1 hour ago, Kdubb said:

And doesn't buffing weak cards improve the health of the metagame as well? Addition by addition... Instead of a nerf, which is addition by subtraction... right?

Given that I don't want to see a 3,000 page FAQ someday, I honestly thing weak cards should just be left to die, to be replace by a smarter variant that will see play in the future.

Yes, you wind up with materiel that is useless, but then each card works AS PRINTED.

Obviously not an option with nerfs (except to ban and reissue the variant).

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11 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

If that were true, we would have had a XG-1 Gunboat meta for the last two years. 

Alas, these forums probably has less impact on FFG and the designers than the podcasts and the comments they get from people attending the events they assist to.

Yea. In case it isn't perfectly clear yet, the whole "the complainers on these forums decide what FFG does" thing I was throwing out isn't what I believe at all. I'm discussing it sarcastically since some of those who are upset about the changes seem to really think FFG looked on these forums, read a couple posts and said, "Yep. Nerf it."

But, I also like the idea of discussing how bad cards need help just as much as overpowered cards need nerfs, so I threw that in to give this thread some more "proper" discussion instead of having it be just another droll thread about the FAQ.

Edited by Kdubb

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1 hour ago, Kharnvor said:

Is it really skill testing?  Maybe in the sense that it requires at least one person to notice and post it on the forums.  After that point, it's group knowledge and taken for granted.  It's a component of the dreaded "netlisting."

I guess my question is, why does there have to be a scale, or rather a scale as broad as we have now?  Shouldn't all cards be nearly equivalent for the most diversity and balance?  If something warps the meta, it can now be nerfed.  Why can something that has absolutely no impact or presence on the meta not be buffed?  Surely all the card designers want their cards to be used and their efforts appreciated.

For me, both question are answered with one response: List Building is a skill.  And it is a skill that should be as important as flying.

Netlisting is plagiarism, and if all cards are equivalent you have killed the skill of "figuring things out."

Maybe it just cuz I'm a pre-internet gamer, but the "source all the answers from the internet" mode of gaming strikes me as skipping out on half the fun either due to a laziness or not wanting to create a personal investment in the game (meaning starting out being bad at it and earning your wings).

I'm NOT saying I don't look for tips, but if you can't make bad choices, the game is boring.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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32 minutes ago, balindamood said:

Personally, I think the Leia Organa is worse than Sabatour.

I could see Leia being useful in an epic match where you might have 5 or six ships setting red maneuvers in a single round or to allow even just a couple of ships that K-Turned to K-Turn again the very next round. 

Maybe she'd be cooler for 100 point play if she was a double sided card.

Side 1:
"At the start of the Activation phase, you may turn this card over. If you do, all friendly ships that a reveal red maneuver treat that maneuver as a white maneuver until the end of the phase."

Side 2:
"At the start of the Activation phase, you may turn this card over. If you do, all friendly ships that a reveal a white maneuver receive a stress token."

Edited by WWHSD

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10 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Netlisting is plagiarism, and if all cards are equivalent you have killed the skill of "figuring things out."


The set of choices available are too small for that to be true. There are also too many "best" combination of upgrades for certain pilots that most players will arrive at by themselves.

Having all cards being more or less equally useful doesn't mean that they are all equally useful in any combination. 100 points of randomly thrown together cards would still probably suck unless you get lucky.  There shouldn't be any cards that you look at and say "that's a bad choice for that slot and those points in just about any situation or any combination of upgrades".  Right now, X-Wing has a bunch of cards that fall into that category.

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12 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

For me, both question are answered with one response: List Building is a skill.  And it is a skill that should be as important as flying.

Netlisting is plagiarism, and if all cards are equivalent you have killed the skill of "figuring things out."

Maybe it just cuz I'm a pre-internet gamer, but the "source all the answers from the internet" mode of gaming strikes me as skipping out on half the fun either due to a laziness or not wanting to create a personal investment in the game (meaning starting out being bad at it and earning your wings).

I'm NOT saying I don't look for tips, but if you can't make bad choices, the game is boring.

I agree that list building is a skill.  I have issues where list building wins or loses you the game before any dice are rolled.  It seems to me that was the problem addressed by these errata.  I also used to have the same feeling about netlisting, but I've come around to not caring since I don't attend tournaments.  Plus, as you say, list building is only one part of the equation (when there exists decent balance in the game), and if one netlists but doesn't have the experience flying the list, it's quite possible to lose despite having the new hotness (again, barring any easy-button win at list building issues).

However, I disagree that we need totally crap cards as traps to weed out those who have the list building skills and those who don't.  I think list synergies and making the whole stronger than the sum of the parts is where the skills should lie.  Instead of testing whether they recognize that Expose (for example) should never be taken ever, we should see whether their choice between R2-D2 or R5-P9 was stronger in the list (again, for example).

In other words, what WWHSD said. :D

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It's painfully obvious that what we really need, what the game really need, is a new pilot card. Fel's Wrath in a punisher. I think we can all agree with this...
And I think it's also obvious that we need a title for the punisher, one that let them carry not only crew, but also stolen rebel droids.
And we need this ship, with FW as pilot, with expose as EPT, with saboteur as crew and R3 as droid, and we need it to be competitively viable (or even be the brave new meta).

It's clearly the most important thing right now. And I think nobody will disagree with this.

In this respect I humbly suggest ...

TITTLE - TIE Punished (TIE punisher only) -2 points:
(As TIE Shuttle plus:) You can equip rebel droids as crew. When you are destroyed you may do as many free actions as damage cards you have, this extra actions can be repeted ones.

SYSTEM - Reckless switch (TIE punisher only) 2 points:
When performing a primary weapon attack, if your agility value is 0, you may remove 1 evade token from your ship to double your attack value.

MODIFICATION - Chariot of the dammed (TIE punisher only) unique 4 points: 
As long as you have more damage cards assigned to you than your hull value, you can do primary weapon attacks against ships outside your firing arc, and after you roll 1 or more attack dice you may cancel all of your dice results, then you may add as many crit results to your roll as dice rolled.

 

 

 

I expect al of this for the wave 11, or sooner...

Edited by Draconis Hegemonia

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8 minutes ago, Kharnvor said:

However, I disagree that we need totally crap cards as traps to weed out those who have the list building skills and those who don't.  I think list synergies and making the whole stronger than the sum of the parts is where the skills should lie.  Instead of testing whether they recognize that Expose (for example) should never be taken ever, we should see whether their choice between R2-D2 or R5-P9 was stronger in the list (again, for example).

In other words, what WWHSD said. :D

My only counter to the crap card argument would be that as the game grows, today's trash could be tomorrow's gold.

Or, as I said, if the card is crap, let it die.  I would rather see new and improved variants of the card that an endless stream of FAQed (read: misprinted) cardboard.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

But how is ordnance niche?  I mean, it used to be pretty bad, but with GC and ordnance cards that don't make you discard the TL simply to fire (the thing that really makes them useful, IMHO), missiles and torps are pretty good now.

I don't know about ordinance, I didn't have the original quote, was just attempting to clarify it I guess

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1 hour ago, Blue Five said:

Cluster Mines was a reference card change. FFG has no issues with those.

Heavy Scyk was buffing a ship back into the game.

I'm not sure I understand. How does it being a change on a reference card make it any less of a buff though? I don't think reference cards have any special magic that make FFG more willing to errata them. I just think it appears that way since they often need erratas because they are usually introducing new mechanics that often need to be revisited.

 

I will say though that the Scyk buff was interesting because I expected them to just revisit the ship later (which they now are), but I think the fact that the title was pretty much auto include and too expensive for what it did forced their hand. Even with the light scyk title being released, I think they felt obligated to give the heavy scyk a boost because it would look pretty bad to the consumer to have the only usable scyk come in a large ship expansion. Something similar would likely happen if their new focus on auto-include titles on some ships backfires and one is underpowered. Since they can't "fix" it with a title since it already has an auto include one, they will have to do some sort of errata to get it where it should be.

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54 minutes ago, Draconis Hegemonia said:


It's painfully obvious that what we really need, what the game really need, is a new pilot card. Fel's Wrath in a punisher. I think we can all agree with this...
And I think it's also obvious that we need a title for the punisher, one that let them carry not only crew, but also stolen rebel droids.
And we need this ship, with FW as pilot, with expose as EPT, with saboteur as crew and R3 as droid, and we need it to be competitively viable (or even be the brave new meta).

It's clearly the most important thing right now. And I think nobody will disagree with this.

In this respect I humbly suggest ...

TITTLE - TIE Punished (TIE punisher only) -2 points:
(As TIE Shuttle plus:) You can equip rebel droids as crew. When you are destroyed you may do as many free actions as damage cards you have, this extra actions can be repeted ones.

SYSTEM - Reckless switch (TIE punisher only) 2 points:
When performing a primary weapon attack, if your agility value is 0, you may remove 1 evade token from your ship to double your attack value.

MODIFICATION - Chariot of the dammed (TIE punisher only) unique 4 points: 
As long as you have more damage cards assigned to you than your hull value, you can do primary weapon attacks against ships outside your firing arc, and after you roll 1 or more attack dice you may cancel all of your dice results, then you may add as many crit results to your roll as dice rolled.

 

 

 

I expect al of this for the wave 11, or sooner...

I'd like to see a Fel's Wrath Punisher Pilot that allows you to shoot off all of your remaining ordnance in the end phase of the round that he would have been destroyed without needing to pay any costs after finishing all of his attacks, your remove him. 

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28 minutes ago, Kdubb said:

I'm not sure I understand. How does it being a change on a reference card make it any less of a buff though? I don't think reference cards have any special magic that make FFG more willing to errata them. I just think it appears that way since they often need erratas because they are usually introducing new mechanics that often need to be revisited.

I think the idea is that reference cards are just rules that are printed in a format that is convenient to distribute in small ship expansions. Issuing an errata for a reference card is seen as the same as altering a rule in the rule book. Issuing errata for anything but correcting the wording on a pilot or upgrade card goes further than that.

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1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

What would make Expose work?  Would it be removing the ACTION requirement?  

Ya at that point cost along with being an action, it is going to need some very specific type of pilot to get it to work.

 

I like the idea of it being a start of combat trigger that reduces your agility but allows you to roll an extra dice on a primary shot against a ship inside your primary firing arc. The firing arc restriction means decimators or PWTs in general can't abuse it without having to keep their arc in mind.

 

 

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