Damaged Double-Bladed = Single? 2 Singles = Double?

[Space Monkey 124]

As I don't have any books beyond the core, I was wondering if there was some kind of "coupler" attachment for a Double-Bladed saber that allows it (if sundered) to turn into a basic saber rather than be destroyed as per Darth Mauls saber in TPM? If not, would an attachment that takes up 1HP and cost around 300 Credits sound about right?

Or even an attachment that allows 2 Sabers to join into one double-saber? Perhaps, if the crystals are different, nominate 1 blade as the primary and the second blade is used for the second hit?

[Kael 1,865]

I'm not sure I would require an attachment. I would require there to be two crystals though, which I think is cost enough. So two crystals and a manuver to unlock them or lock them. 

[Space Monkey 124]

I understand the 2-crystal requirement to join 2 sabers together, but what about the "coupler" idea to help protect the Double-Bladed saber from Sundering? Or would this be too powerful?

I just feel that to require an extra crystal just to protect from sundering is very expensive, either in time or money, so much so that none of my players would bother. I think if they had to hunt for another crystal they would much rather construct a second saber with it as a spare than put it into a double-Saber on the rare chance it gets destroyed. At least as two separate sabers they have the option to dual-wield should the need arise, or even loan their spare to another PC who may have lost his.

[Rossbert 76]

Lightsabers are all immune to the Sunder quality.

[Donovan Morningfire 10,200]

46 minutes ago, Rossbert said:

Lightsabers are all immune to the Sunder quality.

But can be destroyed by spending 2 Triumphs on the combat check.

To the OP,
The way I'd handle it is have the wielder of the destroyed double-bladed lightsaber flip a Destiny Point to let them be able to be able to use one of the halves as a basic lightsaber.  After all, we see Darth Maul do exactly that in TPM after Kenobi cleaves the Sith Lord's double-saber in twain.

If the PC wants to be able to split the double-saber into two separate 'sabers, I probably wouldn't require any sort of special attachment, and instead just treat them as wielding two separate lightsabers, including having the increased difficulty to attack with both and losing the Linked quality.  They'd still have to be using the same type of kyber crystal in each 'saber.

[Space Monkey 124]

I like the Destiny Point idea. Thanks DM!

[Kael 1,865]

14 hours ago, Space Monkey said:

 

I understand the 2-crystal requirement to join 2 sabers together, but what about the "coupler" idea to help protect the Double-Bladed saber from Sundering? Or would this be too powerful?

 

 

 

You can go with Donovan's idea but frankly I'm of the opinion that if you don't take the time to put two crystals in a double sabre and someone splits it in half then you risk losing your weapon like anyone else who happens to have their weapon destroyed. I don't see why a doule sabre should be inherently protected from destruction unless the PC takes steps to do otherwise. 

 

14 hours ago, Space Monkey said:

I just feel that to require an extra crystal just to protect from sundering is very expensive, either in time or money, so much so that none of my players would bother. I think if they had to hunt for another crystal they would much rather construct a second saber with it as a spare than put it into a double-Saber on the rare chance it gets destroyed. At least as two separate sabers they have the option to dual-wield should the need arise, or even loan their spare to another PC who may have lost his.

 

 

That's on them. I'm just say'n, if they don't hunt for that extra crystal they run the same risks as anyone else when their weapon gets attacked. If they want to just go with two sabers that's their business. If they want to combine them as one, that is also, their business. I see no inherent reason for giving the an extra benefit that other weapons don't get when they are broken. 

If you want the double sabre it should be for character reasons, not because if someone splits it in two you still have a working sabre. If you want a working sabre post weapon destruction take the time to build it that way and get two crystals. Granted I see sabre destructon as a rare event anyway.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Kael

[Donovan Morningfire 10,200]

Regarding double-sabers and crystals, do remember that as an attachment, a PC has to pay double for a crystal.  So a GM is perfectly fine in saying the player needs to find two crystals in order to build a double-bladed lightsaber in the first place.

Granted, that's not such a huge deal if the PC is going through the typical "find a crystal" quest given that most such quests tend to include enough kyber crystals for all the PCs that want them, but could be an issue if the PC is trying to acquire suitable crystals through other means.

[Space Monkey 124]

Yeah, I'm about to take them on their Crystal mission but I'm not sure it's fair to let one player find 1 crystal (as he has made a basic hilt) and let the other player find 2 crystals (as he has built a double-bladed hilt).

I guess I was just after a solution to the way Darth Maul ended up with a basic saber after his was "destroyed" without giving out 2 crystals. If my player then decided to change his mind and take the crystals out and build 2 basic sabers, he's then ended up with twice as many sabers as the other guy which is unfair.

[LordBritish 1,016]

The one thing to remember about story telling is that each thing shouldn't necessarily be even. In this case however I would state that a double lightsaber is made using one crystal split into two, or two crystals that are inherently gemini crystals, they opperate much better in concert and their power fluctuates wildly when they are not both opperating the same weapon (E.g. on a despair the lightsaber shuts out and is inoperable without a serious, lengthily repair check. Thus if he mounts one crystal in two lightsabers, he's at an inherent disadvantage.

Either that, or expressively state that a double saber is a single crystal. Job done. Any other mechanic consequences will drive from it being bigger (thus more difficult to conceal)  and being more expensive to maintain.

Alternatively give one player a crystal with an addition effect instead of a dime a billion Ilium Crystal and the other "two" standard crystals.

The key thing to remember with Maul is that he was a member of an order with many years of experience and was tailored to exclusively kill Jedi, narratively speaking he is a nemesis class character, thus when Obi rolled double Triumph, the DM used the despair generated on the same check or flipped a destiny point to preserve the weapon and damage it by two steps. While a double can be wielded like a single in the similar manner of a pike, his weapon surviving was likely to ensure that his big nemesis wasn't ganked that easily.

[LordBritish 1,016]

Wielding two singles is also alright, unlike a double saber one has to declare the intention to double attack, and they have a increased chance to miss. I know a character who has kept three lightsaber crystals for herself exclusively, yet I never felt my PC was at a disadvantage with one. Unlike her, he really knew how to use it. (out of the 12 character group, only he and his apprentice know how to wield one.)

[Space Monkey 124]

Gemini crystals sounds like an interesting concept, though for the sake of simplicity I may use the Destiny point idea mentioned earlier, perhaps with a reduction in Stats (perhaps the crystal reverts to its base stats, but the PC at least still has a weapon to fight and defend with).

Thanks all!

[Tramp Graphics 2,328]

One key thing to remember too about their lightsaber quest. What kind of crystals they find will be determined by what planet they're on while looking for crystals. For instance, if the players are on Ossus, they'll be finding Mephite crystals, or some other type of Adegan crystal. Even though Ilum crystals are the "Default", in all honesty, they shouldn't be, given that Ilum is firmly in the hands of the Empire, and potentially been so thoroughly devastated and possibly in the process of being turned into Starkiller Base (if it is indeed the planet they used), to make Ilum crystals impossible to gather. 

[Space Monkey 124]

They'll be doing the GM screen adventure for Rubat crystals, though I'll be removing some of the mod options. I don't like them explained away as "the same as Ilum but with a different name" so I'll be removing one or 2 damage +1 mods and probably a Vicious mod too. I want to make them sub-par which will hopefully prompt the PC's to search for a better one at some point.

This is after all their first saber. I don't want it to be so awesome it'll be their last.

[Space Monkey 124]

They'll be doing the GM screen adventure for Rubat crystals, though I'll be removing some of the mod options. I don't like them explained away as "the same as Ilum but with a different name" so I'll be removing one or 2 damage +1 mods and probably a Vicious mod too. I want to make them sub-par which will hopefully prompt the PC's to search for a better one at some point.

This is after all their first saber. I don't want it to be so awesome it'll be their last.

[Donovan Morningfire 10,200]

58 minutes ago, Space Monkey said:

They'll be doing the GM screen adventure for Rubat crystals, though I'll be removing some of the mod options. I don't like them explained away as "the same as Ilum but with a different name" so I'll be removing one or 2 damage +1 mods and probably a Vicious mod too. I want to make them sub-par which will hopefully prompt the PC's to search for a better one at some point.

This is after all their first saber. I don't want it to be so awesome it'll be their last.

What you may want to consider is the Athiss Cave Crystals from the FaD Beta intro adventure.  They worked pretty good for my party of would-be saber-monkeys in the series of Beta adventures I ran.

Athiss Cave Crystals
Base Mods: Damage 6, Crit 3, Breach 1, Sunder
Mod Options: 2 Damage +1 Mods, 1 Decrease crit rating by 1 (minimum of 1), 1 Weapon Quality (Vicious +1) Mod
Hard Points Required: 2
Cost: 7000 credits(R)/8

Alternatively, do a forum search for Rubat Crystals, and look for a post by one DarthGM, who came up with an alternate set of stats for Rubat crystals.

[Kael 1,865]

15 hours ago, Space Monkey said:

Yeah, I'm about to take them on their Crystal mission but I'm not sure it's fair to let one player find 1 crystal (as he has made a basic hilt) and let the other player find 2 crystals (as he has built a double-bladed hilt).

 

Then don't give him two. Nothing says he has to build the double bladed sabre now. It's ok to get half way there and build a normal sabre for now and then work up to a double sabre. The flaw here is the assumption that the player has to have it right now.

 

15 hours ago, Space Monkey said:

If my player then decided to change his mind and take the crystals out and build 2 basic sabers, he's then ended up with twice as many sabers as the other guy which is unfair.

 

How and why? If one of your players decided to fight with two sabres would you tell them no because one player decided he only wants one? Different characters will have different goals. One character shouldn't be limited because of another character. It is completely fair for one player to get two crystals and one to get only one. Otherwise it would be unfair to even allow a character to have a double sabre. It would also equally be unfair to allow that player to have a functioning sabre after it gets wacked in half. So if you're willing to allow the player to somehow mimic Maul's sabre, no matter how you slice it, you are giving one player something more than what the other one has gotten.

The only true way to be fair is to require them to have the same sabre. If you're not doing that then the fairness argument flies out the window since the guy with the double sabre gets linked and the other dude doesn't. 

[Space Monkey 124]

I'm going with one crystal needed for a double-saber, and if it breaks it breaks. That's my call for my game. My original question was if there was some published material for a coupler attachment. I think we're all getting dragged off topic a little by subjecting me to a Jedi mind probe to find out why I think it's unfair to give one player twice as much reward as another. I know my players and they would agree with me, so I won't be changing my mind on this any time soon.

I take it this means there is no coupler attachment? Ok, job done

Thanks all!