Kanan/Biggs Ruling PLEASE HELP!!!!

[The Law 6]

Hey guys..

I got a TO here that seem to have a hard time understand the fact that you can spend focus tokens when an enemy ship is attacking at range 1-2 to reduce their attack by 1.

My TO argues that the enemy has to be attacking the ghost for that ability to trigger.

PLEASE! Help me find a FAQ or FFG email stating that the pilot ability triggers when an enemy ship is attacking, and not attacking the ghost directly. It is to the point where he is saying that I will be thrown from the next even if I try to pull this off. 

For the life of me, I cannot find anything useful to prove they are wrong.

Thank you!

[Parravon 5,217]

The card does NOT say "when an enemy ship at Range 1-2 is attacking you..."

It's a passive ability and Kanan does not need to be target of the attack. It's a little like Etahn A'baht. With him, you just need an enemy ship inside you firing arc to be defending. It doesn't state Etahn has to be the one attacking.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Parravon

[The Law 6]

His ruling is this "  The card does not say attacking a friendly ship ( you are a friendly ship) As such is does not get around Blue rule book page 8 Card Abilities Bullet 2, ship abilities only affect that ship. "

therefor I cannot use his ability when an enemy ship is attacking another ship. 

He is adding words to Kanan's card, and does not understand his ability. 

[Dr Zoidberg 3,200]

The TO is wrong.  It says when an enemy ship is attacking.  That's it; period.  It doesn't actually specify who the enemy ship needs to be attacking; just that it's attacking.  It could be attacking the can of Coke sitting next to the table for all we care, and Kanan would still get to reduce the attack.

 

[TheRabidAardvark 324]

33 minutes ago, The Law said:

Hey guys..

I got a TO here that seem to have a hard time understand the fact that you can spend focus tokens when an enemy ship is attacking at range 1-2 to reduce their attack by 1.

My TO argues that the enemy has to be attacking the ghost for that ability to trigger.

PLEASE! Help me find a FAQ or FFG email stating that the pilot ability triggers when an enemy ship is attacking, and not attacking the ghost directly. It is to the point where he is saying that I will be thrown from the next even if I try to pull this off. 

For the life of me, I cannot find anything useful to prove they are wrong.

Thank you!

Your TO is a moron.

Where are you, so that I know to avoid their events.

Is English their primary language?  If so, then the text on the card is clear as day.  If not...the text on the card is still clear as day.

It almost sounds as if the TO knows your opponent and is siding with them because of a prior relationship.  That's the only reason I can think of for the TO to escalate to throwing you out if you attempt it.

Call him out on his favoritism, and take it to FFG and the venue owner.

[The Law 6]

Just now, TheRabidAardvark said:

Your TO is a moron.

Where are you, so that I know to avoid their events.

Is English their primary language?  If so, then the text on the card is clear as day.  If not...the text on the card is still clear as day.

It almost sounds as if the TO knows your opponent and is siding with them because of a prior relationship.  That's the only reason I can think of for the TO to escalate to throwing you out if you attempt it.

Call him out on his favoritism, and take it to FFG and the venue owner.

I am talking to the store owner now, he's reading over the LENGTHY facebook group discussion about it. 

He's located here in Hawaii, and there's really only two stores that have tournaments. So unless you're coming out here you wont have to worry about this. 

I swear he has some personal vendetta against me, since he is literally the only one that has an issue with the way this list is played.

[Parravon 5,217]

5 minutes ago, The Law said:

His ruling is this "  The card does not say attacking a friendly ship ( you are a friendly ship) As such is does not get around Blue rule book page 8 Card Abilities Bullet 2, ship abilities only affect that ship. "

therefor I cannot use his ability when an enemy ship is attacking another ship. 

He is adding words to Kanan's card, and does not understand his ability. 

The card doesn't say attacking a friendly ship, but does it need to? Get him to explain Etahn's ability, because that can be used every time a ship attacks an enemy in his arc.

Quote

Card Abilities, page 8.

The word “you” on Damage cards and Upgrade cards refers to the ship that has those cards. These cards only affect the ship that they are assigned to unless the card specifies otherwise.

His card does feature the word "you", but that only means that Kanan must be the one to spend the focus token, not the other ship. It doesn't mean he must be the target of the attack. If it did, it would surely have included it in the trigger as I stated in my first post, above.

But clearly, it does not. The trigger is: an enemy ship at Range 1-2 (of Kanan) performing an attack. Nothing more. No other requirements pertaining to the target of the attack. Just performing an attack.

[Parravon 5,217]

Some examples you can get him to explain as to how they are any different.

Dace Bonearm: "When an enemy ship at Range 1-3 receives at least 1 ion token, if you are not stressed, you may receive 1 stress token to cause that ship to suffer 1 damage." Doesn't mean that Dace has to be the attacker. It can be anything dropping an ion token on the enemy ship, like a Conner Net or Ion Bomb.

Etahn A'baht: "When an enemy ship inside your firing arc at Range 1-3 is defending, the attacker may change 1 of its (HIT) results to a (CRITICAL) result." An enemy ship in his arc triggers his ability per attack on it.

 

[The Law 6]

4 minutes ago, Parravon said:

Some examples you can get him to explain as to how they are any different.

Dace Bonearm: "When an enemy ship at Range 1-3 receives at least 1 ion token, if you are not stressed, you may receive 1 stress token to cause that ship to suffer 1 damage." Doesn't mean that Dace has to be the attacker. It can be anything dropping an ion token on the enemy ship, like a Conner Net or Ion Bomb.

Etahn A'baht: "When an enemy ship inside your firing arc at Range 1-3 is defending, the attacker may change 1 of its (HIT) results to a (CRITICAL) result." An enemy ship in his arc triggers his ability per attack on it.

 

 Thank you, i will use these if i have to. I appreciate everything!

[Vitalis 1,012]

And guys like these are the TOs...FFS this world gonna burn...

Just ask the him is he trying to be smarter then whole world that plays it your way?

[The Law 6]

My god.. I dont know what this guy has against me...

He writes:
" The Rule is 

The word “you” on a Ship card refers to the 
corresponding ship. Abilities on Ship cards 
cannot affect other ships unless the ability 
specifies otherwise. 

Where does his ability specify ship as the defender. IT says another ship is the attacker, nothing about the defender, as such his ability can only effect his ship.

I do agree that Kayan has to spend his focus.

it just says when another ship is attacking. and ship abilities can only effect the ship that is is on unless specified otherwise. as the ship ability does not specify otherwise he has to be the target. that is how the rules state it. "

he just doesn't seem to get it. 

Edited March 7, 2017 by The Law

[WWHSD 9,273]

Have him look at Jan Ors's pilot ability and the two of you can laugh at how silly the FFG designers were for giving her an ability that is impossible to use. Don't they realize that a friendly ship can't attack Jan?

"When another friendly ship at Range 1-3 is attacking, if you have no stress tokens, you may receive 1 stress token to allow that ship to roll 1 additional attack die."

Seriously, Jan Ors's pilot ability is almost the exact inverse of Kanan's. It is structured the same way. It triggers when an eligible target for the ability is attacking. It has the ship possessing the effect pay a cost. It alters the number of dice rolled during the attack. If he agrees that Jan Ors has an ability that actually works, I don't see how he can not see that Kanan should function in the same manner.

Edited March 7, 2017 by WWHSD

[Dr Zoidberg 3,200]

Sorry mate, he's wrong and also a ******* idiot (not necessarily in that order).

Not sure what else we can do for you.

[debiler 317]

Does the guy know the golden rule?

"DO WHAT THE CARDS TELL YOU TO DO, NOT WHAT THEY DON'T!"

Seriously, his reasoning is totally flawed. Especially as TO, you should know about these things.

The only thing that restricts the trigger for this card is that it has to be at range 1-2 from Kanan. That is the "you" part of the trigger. The other part of the trigger is "an enemy ship must attack". That's it. No more, no less.

Edited March 7, 2017 by debiler

[XwingN00b 0]

Looked around,   Reddit people are agreeing with you like here,   have you asked FFG?   I have seen this list flown,   has anyone else ever challenged. it?  

 

I am new to the game and the rules,   only played home games,  That rule is in the book.   What else would that apply to?

[Innese 2,537]

You may have to resort to video evidence to try and prove your case ( Even if there is no need to make a case, since he is 100% wrong). I'd suggest finding a few matches on YT where Kanan is used.

[digitalbusker 2,248]

You won't get a response back in time to do anything useful, but this is a good use case for the rules question form. If you know the TO's email address, you can submit the question for him, so he knows you haven't doctored Frank's reply when it arrives. Or, if you're worried that he might "not notice" the email when it arrives, you could have a mutually-agreed-upon third party submit the question.

[Willy Jarque 230]

Well, you can say this to him:

Kanan actually specifies that he affects other ship. That TO is assuming that the attacked ship is the one being affected by kanan's ability, when it is the attacker the one who is. And kanan says "when an enemy ship [...] is attacking". Surprise! The target not being the ship kanan is in!

[The Law 6]

Well guys..

I've officially lost it. 

 

"Correct it just says when another ship is attacking. and ship abilities can only effect the ship that is is on unless specified otherwise. as the ship ability does not specify otherwise he has to be the target. that is how the rules state it "

 

Oh and he reads these forums too, so please, tell him how you really feel. 

Edited March 7, 2017 by The Law

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

He's making stuff up.  That is just outright made up.  Ask him to reference the rules that say what he's saying.  Ask him to actually show you the page of the TFA rules reference.

[The Law 6]

8 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

He's making stuff up.  That is just outright made up.  Ask him to reference the rules that say what he's saying.  Ask him to actually show you the page of the TFA rules reference.

The rule that he is referring to is this:

Card abilities: Page 8, bullet two. "The word "you" on a Ship card refers to the corresponding ship. Abilities on Ship cards cannot affect other ships unless the ability specifies otherwise"

The only "you" on Kanan's card is "You may spend a focus token" Now, lets say, if I try to spend a focus token from Biggs to use his ability, I get that. you cant.

But, Since the triggered condition is "When an enemy ship is attacking" I can spend the focus token whenever I want, no matter what the attacker is attacking. He really just doesn't understand this simple concept. 

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

Yeah, he's misreading the rules.

The trigger is an enemy ship attacking.

The ability is 'you may spend a focus token to reduce their attack by one die.'

He's just not correct.  There's no other way to say it.

[The Law 6]

he's on a high horse and refuses to get down till FFG responds to his question. 

 

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

*shrug* then expect him to be on his high horse for some time.

Has he actually sent an rules question to them?

[The Law 6]

i dont know, but I have.

I sent one last month, and yesterday. I am still awaiting a response.