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Sniperbon

Feedback on my Armada list :)

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Jerry is great for Vics, no doubt about it. The only problem is that you are probably only ever going to use him once, rarely twice in a game. 
Where as Tarkin you will be using all the time. Mainly to spam Engi commands. You'l be getting at least four engi tokens in a game, which makes him almost twice as good at Motti for extra health.
Banking a nav token, and slowing down from speed 2 to speed 1, makes thes vic fairly maneuverable.  If you had a banked Nav token and did and Nav command you would be able to give an extra click. Meaning you could double click at speed one, though you would have to be a reasonably good commander to judge that right. 
But after turn three, you should be either Nav commands, or Engi commands anyway. Unless it is the carrier ship.
Also the skilled officer means if you are doing only Engi and Nav commands, it means effectively make's you're vic a "command" value of one.
Limiting the two possible choices to just one.

Thanks for the advice though :)

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Obviously you have really thought out this list, and you have a plan to counter its weakness.  My only other concern then would be how do I make sure I don't get flanked?  With the speed disadvantage a MSU or rebel fleet could get around your flank and put a hurt. On the weak rear hull zone of the VSD.  

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Your objectives need some work I think.  Close Range intel scan is not very good for this list, and dangerous territory isn't doing you too many favors either.  For red, i would probably go Station Assault, and for blue Solar Corona or maybe intel sweep.  Hyperspace is all right, but conested outpost is probably better.  Vics are slow so you need something that will force engagement.

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If you are flying a fleet of Vics, and you only use Jerry once per game, then I would contend that you aren't playing against a very skilled opponent.  I know that if you flew 3 Vics against me, I would force you to use the extra clicks at least a couple times, otherwise you'd have little to no full front arc attacks (specially with Vic Is).  I would use that lack of maneuverability against you big time.  Jerry is DEFINITELY the best Admiral for an all Vic fleet.

We all know the virtues of Tarkin.  He is an absolutely great commander, which is why he is so expensive.  He will work with any fleet and provide value.  But not necessarily the best possible value, which is what I would contend is the situation here.  Jerry is, hands down, be the best way to get that full arc shot off at least once or twice a game, and that's where you will really punish your opponent.

I would consider making some changes to your flagship.  You have 1 upgrade that requires you to spend a die to get an accuracy, and another upgrade that turns a die to a double hit or crit.  Considering there are only 3 red dice and you'll be lucky to get many shots using the blacks, it seems like you won't be using both of these on the same attack all that often.  You will generally want to burn blanks to your Sensor Team, however, you will TRCing those blanks too.  Might be best to put one of these dice manipulation tricks on a different ship. 

I'm a little confused about your objective choices here.  Now, with no bid you are at the mercy of the opponent's choice of first or 2nd.  However, when you do go second, I just don't see the value in some of these choices.  Close-Range Intel Scan in a fleet with only Red and Black Dice doesn't seem like it will do much, if anything for you.  I get that Dominator will potentially give you a few Blue dice over the course of the game, but not enough to make this objective strong.  Your Sensor Team will get you some Accuracies (by spending dice), which you obviously intend to turn to damage with Warlord, so they won't be getting you any Victory Tokens.  I fear you will find yourself really not getting a lot out of this objective with this fleet.  The unfortunate thing is, I'm not sure what would be better.  Possibly Station Assault?  At least that forces them to come to you while you camp on the stations and you have a better chance of getting off some black dice attacks.  The Stations aren't terribly difficult to destroy though.

I think there are multiple yellow options that are better.  Vics do not scare me at ALL for Hyperspace Assault.  As first player, I get to move after you drop your assaulting ship, but before you activate it.  I just move away whoever is nearest and you never catch up with your speed 2 Vics.  Contested Outpost again forces them to come to you, which you want.  Planetary Ion Cannon will get you some free attacks without any downside.

For Blue, I would think maybe Intel Sweep or Salvage Run would be better to force that close in engagement that you want.  Dangerous Territory just doesn't do much for you and you NEED to get close in to have a chance with all Vic Is.

Anyway, just some thoughts.  Hope that helps!

Edited by Xindell

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Yeah objectives were a bit of the tough choice. So Close range intel scan was put in because it either forces the player to spend targetters on shooting you're ship (and not getting points) or spending them on points and you can potentially still use you're defense tokens. Making the vic's tougher.
Yeah contested out post would probs be best for yellow.
Dangerous territory means that my Vics would be immune to hitting the terrain, seeing as they are fat and  unmaneuverable I thought it could be pretty handy. Also means that if the enemy were to go for points, they would suffer crits/hits.

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So here is the reasoning behind this ship.
Vic I - 73

Captain Neda - 2
Turbolaser reroute - 7
Warlord - 8
Sensor team - 5

Total - 95

You will be have a pretty high average damage. Turn any blanks into a double hit with Turbolaser, and if you roll any targeters you can change them to a double hit with warlord. If you roll really unlucky, like blank blank, hit. You can change one of the blanks with your sensor team to a targeter (spend the other blank dice), then change it to a double hit with warlord, then change the last dice to a double hit with turbolaser.

Blank,blank, hit turns into...
Double hit, double hit.

Also Warlord can be used on all attacks. Front and then side (or rear).
Or just use the evade at long range for damage migation, and use the turbolaser reroute's at close-medium range.
At close range I imagine this ship could probably destroy most small-medium ships in one shot.

3 Black dice
3 Red
Black - blank
Black - hit
Black - double hit
Red - blank
Red - targeter
Red - blank
Total damage - 4

Spend the black blank, and change a red to a targeter, then use warlord and change it to a double hit. then change the red blank to a double hit with turbolaser.
New results


Black - hit
Black - double hit
Red - double hit
Red - targeter
Red - double hit
Total damage - 7
Almost double's you're damage output.
More importantly you will always be able to change a dice to a targetter, if you are unlucky and don't roll any. So no bracing for the rebel scum! :P

Its important to note I haven't actually flown this list yet, and I'm not very experienced at this game. In some games, what sounds like a good idea on paper can not really materialize in an actual game. So maybe the veterans can help me out here?
Great shout about Jerry by the way! I'l see how it goes after a couple of games. Add in more fighters with the spare points.


Thanks for the advice Peeps :D

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Think about it this way.  You are spending 22 points in dice manipulation on 1 ship.  Yes, in a perfect storm of dice rolling it will get in a good punch or two because of this.  But that's 22 points.  On a Vic.  Which needs a close range front arc shot to make this all that great.  And often you'll roll dice that don't want to be discarded or only need 1 of the two tricks to become a strong attack, thereby wasting all of that potential.  All the while, your other two ships have almost no dice manipulation at all.  Switching to Jerry will definitely help, but avoiding close range of the front arc of a single Vic is still not going to be all that difficult for the opponent.

I feel like it makes more sense to help your other ships out a bit more by spreading around the dice manipulation.  I like your carrier just how it is.  It will do what you need it to do, and lend some damage when attacking.  I would consider moving Needa & TRC to Dominator.  Now your Warlord Sensor team can still  do their thing and keep consistent damage being output even at long range.  And the Dominator can guarantee double hits while often pitching in blue dice to fish for accuracies and additional damage.  If you can get that guy in close range, he will hit like an ISD I with TRC and Ord Experts to guarantee really strong damage output.  And Needa will potentially help with his approach being more survivable.  This also takes the heat off of your Flagship by having it not be both the biggest point sink and the biggest damage dealer and therefor the biggest target.  Opponents have to decide what to go for first, Jerry and his ability, or the ship that hurts the most when firing.  Finally when you have a bad roll with either ship, you have a way to mitigate it, which will result on more total output over the course of a game.

 

Edited by Xindell

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Another benefit to the above change is that it opens up the officer slot on your flagship for Minister Tua.  Find a few points somewhere and your flagship can now have ECM or RBD.  That's pretty huge, IMHO.

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2 hours ago, Xindell said:

I think there are multiple yellow options that are better.  Vics do not scare me at ALL for Hyperspace Assault.  As first player, I get to move after you drop your assaulting ship, but before you activate it.  I just move away whoever is nearest and you never catch up with your speed 2 Vics.

I agree with pretty much everything but this. You're assuming your opponent puts the VSD behind you, which, why the hell would they do that? Put it in front of a medium/large ship and go to town, or fork a pair of small ships, or use it to goad something into range of the other VSDs. There are lots of options for using VSDs with HA, and none of them are "just stick it behind something and hope the other guy doesn't notice it."

Edited by Ardaedhel

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51 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

I agree with pretty much everything but this. You're assuming your opponent puts the VSD behind you, which, why the hell would they do that? Put it in front of a medium/large ship and go to town, or fork a pair of small ships, or use it to goad something into range of the other VSDs. There are lots of options for using VSDs with HA, and none of them are "just stick it behind something and hope the other guy doesn't notice it."

That's a fair point.  On the flip side I don't expect a lot of people to fly straight at your hyperspace markers when they know you have a Vic I waiting to drop in.  If you place your markers well, and your opponent doesn't mitigate that with his deployment then this can certainly do some good.  I still think Contested Outpost is a much better option though as it absolutely forces your opponent to engage.

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Great points guys! :D
Much food for thought.

How about this then?
http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=86986&key=2e005d3352201aa1ed064151e39df111

I like the idea of having more than one target which is dangerous, by splitting the cards like you said, its either shoot the main damage dealer(Dominator) shoot the commander or shoot the carrier. Where as before you could of targeted the commander and damage dealer on one ship. Also it makes the commander ship much tougher with ECM (which I had forgot you could give now).
Also having Jerry as a commander pretty much means you hardly ever have to do Nav commands. Just bank a token at the start so you can slow down later on, then just spam Engi commands. 

Edited by Sniperbon

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6 minutes ago, Sniperbon said:

Great points guys! :D
Much food for thought.

How about this then?
http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=86986&key=2c991264d67fae902fe075ad73d10815

I like the idea of having more than one target which is dangerous, by splitting the cards like you said, its either shoot the main damage dealer(Dominator) shoot the commander or shoot the carrier. Where as before you could of targeted the commander and damage dealer on one ship. Also it makes the commander ship much tougher with ECM (which I had forgot you could give now).
Also having Jerry as a commander pretty much means you hardly ever have to do Nav commands. Just bank a token at the start so you can slow down later on, then just spam Engi commands. 

Looks pretty good.  Just remember that Minister Tua only gives you he defensive upgrade slot.  You still need to use it.  It looks like the points are there for it, maybe it just isn't showing on the list?

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Yeah I'm having trouble getting it to save the ECM on it.
I'v edited it, it should be working now.
It was either ECM or RFBD. The problem with RFBD is that I had two points spare, which I couldn't really put anywhere :S

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They are both good, and it's OK to have a bid so you can choose 1st or 2nd occasionally.  2 points isn't much of one, but it's better than 0.  Use whichever you prefer and if that's RBD, don't worry about the 2 points.

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