Jango/Veers deck, please weigh in!

[DemanKnght 20]

On ‎3‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 8:34 AM, Stone37 said:

So I've removed: Commanding Presence, Thermal Detonator, Speeder Bike Scout (2), Firepower, Closing the Net (2), Supporting Fire, and Occupation (2). I'd like to replace Flame Thrower with the DH-17, I just don't have them.  I'd also love to throw in a second Holdout Blaster if I had it.  With the cards I have here is the new list:

eVeers

eJango

Frozen Wastes

1x Electroshock

2x Dug In

2x He Doesn't Like You

2x Unpredictable

2x Scramble

2x Logistics (I Would replace these with 1x Holdout Blaster and 1x Electroshock)

2x Tactical Mastery 

Supports

2x Backup Muscle

Upgrades

2x Promotion

2x F-11D Rifle

2x IQA-11

1x Jetpack

1x Holdout Blaster

2x Flame Thrower (I would replace these with 2x DH-17)

2x On the Hunt

Is it me and my failing math but arent you building a deck of 27 cards there?

[Stone37 3,353]

You're not wrong DemanKnght.

Three missing cards are Electroshock, Jetpack, and Holdout blaster (bring the total to 2 each) 

[wakefieldbw 34]

I like Ace in the Hole with Thermal Detonator.  Good for those 3+ character lists.

[Stone37 3,353]

3 hours ago, wakefieldbw said:

I like Ace in the Hole with Thermal Detonator.  Good for those 3+ character lists.

I removed Thermal Detonator because I found it was slowing me down.  It wasn't a range damaged centered die.  I'd rather pull a Holdout Blaster or a IQA-11.

[pstalker 47]

If you want an even better version of this deck I would drop Veers and use 2X FO Troopers...

[Amanal 2,557]

1 hour ago, pstalker said:

If you want an even better version of this deck I would drop Veers and use 2X FO Troopers...

Better is arguable, 2 Troopers has more health (4), but I am not too sure about the dice or the action economy. Jango/Veers is fast and that is somewhat important to the deck too.

Trooper:
1, 2, 2/,1, ,  

The 2 Damage for 1 Resource further slows down the deck as you either fish for the resource (which would be better off paying for a gun IMHO) or forego the damage.

Veers:
1, 2, +2,1 ,1,

As long as Jango or Veers rolls a base range damage of some sort, that +2 is just hurt on you. A blaster also becomes useful and not having to keep a resource up you sleeve for that 2 Damage that costs a resource is far more productive.

This is not to say that a couple of First Order Troopers wouldn't work in another deck, but you would start impacting on other cards and card choices.

[ozmodon 535]

On 3/4/2017 at 7:34 AM, Stone37 said:

So I've removed: Commanding Presence, Thermal Detonator, Speeder Bike Scout (2), Firepower, Closing the Net (2), Supporting Fire, and Occupation (2). I'd like to replace Flame Thrower with the DH-17, I just don't have them.  I'd also love to throw in a second Holdout Blaster if I had it.  With the cards I have here is the new list:

eVeers

eJango

Frozen Wastes

1x Electroshock

2x Dug In

2x He Doesn't Like You

2x Unpredictable

2x Scramble

2x Logistics (I Would replace these with 1x Holdout Blaster and 1x Electroshock)

2x Tactical Mastery 

Supports

2x Backup Muscle

Upgrades

2x Promotion

2x F-11D Rifle

2x IQA-11

1x Jetpack

1x Holdout Blaster

2x Flame Thrower (I would replace these with 2x DH-17)

2x On the Hunt

Even without all the best cards the Jango Veers combo is hard to beat. Getting that second hold out blaster and a second jump pack will make a huge difference.

[Starbane 301]

7 hours ago, Amanal said:

Better is arguable, 2 Troopers has more health (4), but I am not too sure about the dice or the action economy. Jango/Veers is fast and that is somewhat important to the deck too.

Trooper:
1, 2, 2/,1, ,  

The 2 Damage for 1 Resource further slows down the deck as you either fish for the resource (which would be better off paying for a gun IMHO) or forego the damage.

Veers:
1, 2, +2,1 ,1,

As long as Jango or Veers rolls a base range damage of some sort, that +2 is just hurt on you. A blaster also becomes useful and not having to keep a resource up you sleeve for that 2 Damage that costs a resource is far more productive.

This is not to say that a couple of First Order Troopers wouldn't work in another deck, but you would start impacting on other cards and card choices.

eJango/2x Trooper is an amazing deck. If I was taking Jango to a tournament that is the deck I'd take, followed closely by eBala/Jango/Trooper, then eJango/eVeers. Having said that, all three are tournament worthy, that's just the order I rate them.

Adding the two troopers does improve durability, but it also opens up design space for cards like Flank one of the better die removal cards in the game and Cannon Fodder which helps keep Jango in the game longer.

eJ/eV is usually faster, but Squad Tactics can help out if you draw it early. Finding room to put it in your deck can be a little difficult though.

[Stone37 3,353]

6 hours ago, Starbane said:

eJango/2x Trooper is an amazing deck. If I was taking Jango to a tournament that is the deck I'd take, followed closely by eBala/Jango/Trooper, then eJango/eVeers. Having said that, all three are tournament worthy, that's just the order I rate them.

Adding the two troopers does improve durability, but it also opens up design space for cards like Flank one of the better die removal cards in the game and Cannon Fodder which helps keep Jango in the game longer.

eJ/eV is usually faster, but Squad Tactics can help out if you draw it early. Finding room to put it in your deck can be a little difficult though.

No doubt that would be a more durable deck and would not have to be so reliant on speed.  Die removal becomes a bit easier to pull off with those characters. 

I've never actually played with Bala yet, but wow is he cheap!  EBala/Jango/Trooper could be a lot of fun. I like the idea of EBala/Veers/Night Sister even more.  All ranged damage, access to the entire library of cards, and a few tricks to boot. 

[pstalker 47]

16 hours ago, Amanal said:

Better is arguable, 2 Troopers has more health (4), but I am not too sure about the dice or the action economy. Jango/Veers is fast and that is somewhat important to the deck too.

Trooper:
1, 2, 2/,1, ,  

The 2 Damage for 1 Resource further slows down the deck as you either fish for the resource (which would be better off paying for a gun IMHO) or forego the damage.

Veers:
1, 2, +2,1 ,1,

As long as Jango or Veers rolls a base range damage of some sort, that +2 is just hurt on you. A blaster also becomes useful and not having to keep a resource up you sleeve for that 2 Damage that costs a resource is far more productive.

This is not to say that a couple of First Order Troopers wouldn't work in another deck, but you would start impacting on other cards and card choices.

I have played eJango / 2x FO Trooper, eJango / eVeers, and eBala, Jango, Trooper extensively and in my experience eJango / 2x FO Trooper is the best Jango deck out there.

Any worth while opponent should be targeting Jango first -- with his low health of 10 he can be burned out pretty quickly.  Using 2x FO Trooper helps to keep Jango alive on the board with cards like Flank, Cannon Fodder, and The Best Defense...

[Stone37 3,353]

33 minutes ago, pstalker said:

I have played eJango / 2x FO Trooper, eJango / eVeers, and eBala, Jango, Trooper extensively and in my experience eJango / 2x FO Trooper is the best Jango deck out there.

Any worth while opponent should be targeting Jango first -- with his low health of 10 he can be burned out pretty quickly.  Using 2x FO Trooper helps to keep Jango alive on the board with cards like Flank, Cannon Fodder, and The Best Defense...

I'm looking forward to trying eJango and a Death Trooper.  20 total heath, a crap ton of natural damage, AND the Death Trooper has the Guardian ability (no cards needed!).

[Amanal 2,557]

No denying these decks are fun and powerful, but they aren't what the critique calls for.

[Stone37 3,353]

After an awesome friend helped me to get a few cards I was missing I've updated the deck:
 

eVeers
eJango
Frozen Wastes

Events
2x Electroshock
2x Dug In
2x He Doesn't Like You
2x Unpredictable
2x Tactical Mastery 
2x Armed to the Teeth

Supports
2x Backup Muscle
2x Infamous 

Upgrades
2x Promotion
2x F-11D Rifle
2x IQA-11
1x Jetpack
1x Holdout Blaster
2x  DH-17
2x On the Hunt
2x Flamethrower 

So here's the question I have left about this deck.  Should I keep the Flamethrowers or toss them for another set of event cards (maybe Scramble)?  I DO NOT have another Jetpack and Holdout Blaster, so that is out of the question (but yes that IS what I would replace the Flamethrowers with if I could).

[Starbane 301]

I would replace the Flame Throwers or Infamous  with Hunker Down and the other with The Best Defense. If you are intent on keeping Infamous I would replace the Flame Throwers with HD.

[K Genesis 176]

1 hour ago, Stone37 said:

After an awesome friend helped me to get a few cards I was missing I've updated the deck:
 

eVeers
eJango
Frozen Wastes

Events
2x Electroshock
2x Dug In
2x He Doesn't Like You
2x Unpredictable
2x Tactical Mastery 
2x Armed to the Teeth

Supports
2x Backup Muscle
2x Infamous 

Upgrades
2x Promotion
2x F-11D Rifle
2x IQA-11
1x Jetpack
1x Holdout Blaster
2x  DH-17
2x On the Hunt
2x Flamethrower 

So here's the question I have left about this deck.  Should I keep the Flamethrowers or toss them for another set of event cards (maybe Scramble)?  I DO NOT have another Jetpack and Holdout Blaster, so that is out of the question (but yes that IS what I would replace the Flamethrowers with if I could).

 

Flamethrowers shouldn't be there at all, IMHO.

Your resource curve is 2, you're playing fast here. IQA and Flamethrower occupy the same high-cost, late-game upgrade space this deck needs. But IQA goes with the deck's theme (pumping ranged damage fast), while Flamethrower doesn't. Prety much same reasoning why you dropped Thermal Dets.

Considering the list above, from my experience, I'd lose the following for a smoother rushdown:

- 2 Infamous

- 1 Tactical Mastery

- 1 Armed To The Teeth

- 2 Flamethrower

 

While adding the following:

+ 1 Fight Dirty

+ 2 Probe

+ 2 Logistics

+ 1 Jetpack

 

I saw that you had Logistics in older versions, don't know exactly why you dropped them. Amazing tech to ramp up guns and profit from slower turns that are bound to happen.

Probe is offense when your opponent decides to slow things down and get Jango stuck. Must have, IMO.

Jetpack, because guns. You probably don't have a second copy of it, as it seems. But, if you do, put it in.

Finally, Fight Dirty is such a great card here. Any bad mid-game roll turns into 4-5 damage with unparalleled speed and can be used to good effect even if Jango is dead (assuming you gear Veers with yellow stuff). It should be your immediate alteration, above anything else.

[Stone37 3,353]

 Great ideas!  For now I've replaced the Flamethrower with Probe. Looking forward to testing it!

[Stone37 3,353]

I think I'm going to go out and buy a pair of Fight Dirty for this deck.  Cheap and quick cards that bring guaranteed hurt. 

[K Genesis 176]

Solid investment. And not just for J&V.

[HoodieDM 320]

Id get rid of Veers and do the eBala/Jango/Trooper or eJango/Trooperx2 deck. Theyre much better IMO for survivability and still starting off with 4 dice.

~D

[Stone37 3,353]

2 hours ago, HoodieDM said:

Id get rid of Veers and do the eBala/Jango/Trooper or eJango/Trooperx2 deck. Theyre much better IMO for survivability and still starting off with 4 dice.

~D

But not as fast. This is a speed deck and it's hard to top the Jango/Veers pair for that. 

[Starbane 301]

12 minutes ago, Stone37 said:

But not as fast. This is a speed deck and it's hard to top the Jango/Veers pair for that. 

This game is an action efficiency tempo game at its heart.

I'm not saying speed doesn't work. However controlling the tempo is better.

If you can use your speed to put your opponent on a clock it will be to your advantage. If your opponent can weather the storm and then pummel you after you've finished your turn they will have the advantage.

When I face Jango/Veers I usually try to create an end game against Veers. For example, if I'm playing Han/Rey and I can isolate a 7ish health Han against Veers in the end game (meaning both Jango and Rey are defeated) I like my chances of winning.

[Stone37 3,353]

6 hours ago, Starbane said:

This game is an action efficiency tempo game at its heart.

I'm not saying speed doesn't work. However controlling the tempo is better.

If you can use your speed to put your opponent on a clock it will be to your advantage. If your opponent can weather the storm and then pummel you after you've finished your turn they will have the advantage.

When I face Jango/Veers I usually try to create an end game against Veers. For example, if I'm playing Han/Rey and I can isolate a 7ish health Han against Veers in the end game (meaning both Jango and Rey are defeated) I like my chances of winning.

Agreed... but not what I'm doing here.  Also, this deck DOES control the tempo.  The battlefield is a key part of the success of this deck.  It's dice removal and I find it FORCES the other player to play at my pace or risk having a character die taken away from them.  This means they play less events, attempt less (if any) rerolls, and often play at a pace their deck is not built around.  Rolling 4 dice from the get go, I have only played one game without my battlefield (I won that game too). This deck doesn't even NEED that battlefield and depending on what the other BF is and the characters I'm up against, sometimes taking the shields is better.

(Also, there is no chance I would attack Rey first in a Han/Rey deck.  That ability of his (unlike Dooko's) can be cut off at the past with speed.)

[Starbane 301]

4 hours ago, Stone37 said:

Agreed... but not what I'm doing here.  Also, this deck DOES control the tempo.  The battlefield is a key part of the success of this deck.  It's dice removal and I find it FORCES the other player to play at my pace or risk having a character die taken away from them.  This means they play less events, attempt less (if any) rerolls, and often play at a pace their deck is not built around.  Rolling 4 dice from the get go, I have only played one game without my battlefield (I won that game too). This deck doesn't even NEED that battlefield and depending on what the other BF is and the characters I'm up against, sometimes taking the shields is better.

(Also, there is no chance I would attack Rey first in a Han/Rey deck.  That ability of his (unlike Dooko's) can be cut off at the past with speed.)

Han is the obvious first target, but also the incorrect one. You are betting your opponent can't get a Second Chance on him before you defeat him, and Han is the easier of the two to shield up.

Rey is the engine that drives the deck. Defeat Rey and you've crippled the decks action economy.

I've played this match up a lot, from both sides and probably more than any other. My biggest blow outs have come when my opponents went for Han first and I put Second Chance on him, I might not lose a character. Even so I have won plenty of games where I didn't get Second Chance on him because I was able to prolong his life beyond what my opponents expected.

Han/Rey doesn't care about your battlefield. Han deals the damage and only has 2 character dice to resolve. I have willingly left Rey's dice on the table to claim the battlefield so it isn't a problem to lose one to your battlefield. That's if you get your battlefield, Han/Rey averages 5.0 on the roll off to Jango/Veers 4.33.

Of course this is just one match up. There is more to consider when building a deck than Han/Rey.