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Panda72

How much latitude do you allow creating new ideas

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So one of the PCs decided that they have encountered a powerful force using character, a NightBrother specifically, and that this NPC has the ability to send them to another planet instantaneously using the force.  Obviously, this being a fantasy realm, and the NightBrothers largely unexplored, I can't say that it is absolutely impossible, but on the other hand I have no precedent for anything like this and not sure how to handle it.

Thoughts?

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Eh, I probably wouldn't. I'd allow the nightbrother, through his mastery of the force be able to guide them where to go, but actually transporting them, no. Even Mother Talzin couldn't teleport people from one location in the universe to the other. She had Assaj Ventress and the two other nightsister assassins take a ship to travel to Serreno in their assassination attempt on Dooku. I would think if she possessed such a teleportation power, she'd have made use of it then.

How did this come about in your game, anyway? Is it in the PC's backstory, or did he flip a destiny point and try to introduce it to the game? Either way, the GM would have final say, and I'd say "no, but he can guide you."

Only way I'd allow such a feat is through ancient technology, perhaps leftover from the Rakattan Infinite Empire, but even then it'd be very limited in scope, and I'd probably find a way to dispose of it after it served my narrative purposes. By limited scope, I mean that it would have one, or several set destinations it can take you, not just anywhere. Think the Stargate in SG1.

Edited by ghatt

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It's part of his backstory.  He met a super strong NightBrother that exiled him effectively.  Instead of declaring him to be in exile, the NightBrother literally just sent him off to a different planet and the character has no idea how he got there or how to get back.  It was a malicious attack in the story.  I'm of the opinion that he can't have that happen, but he really, really like the "coolness" effect of having his character suddenly in an unknown environment among strangers.  It's effectively how he wants to start the adventure, but he's willing to leave the rest of the story up to me.  It just makes the initial meeting very hard to figure out as this guy suddenly appears in the middle of a crowd, angry and disoriented, and through no means that I can explain within my understanding of the universe and I'm supposed to be the GM.  

He's a new player and I'm a new GM though so I don't want to crush his very creative backstory just due to my lack of experience, hence why I wanted to see what others would do.

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Instant teleportation might be the character's recollection, but that doesn't mean that's what actually HAPPENED. He may have been drugged or had his consciousness & memories force-tinkered-with then delivered the old fashioned way... in the hold of a crummy tramp freighter. A tramp freighter who's pilot may *know* things (plot hook alert)

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So funnily enough this is actually an old EU power: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_storm_(wormhole)

That said, I would never allow it because it's ridiculous.  What is not ridiculous is a very powerful Mind Trick, ordering the PC to leave the planet and go somewhere else and then forgetting he did it.  Maybe let the PC think he was teleported but find out later that actually he made his own way there and simply cannot remember.  Maybe even add in some fun complications about what else he did that he can't remember.  

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2 hours ago, Panda72 said:

So one of the PCs decided that they have encountered a powerful force using character, a NightBrother specifically, and that this NPC has the ability to send them to another planet instantaneously using the force.  Obviously, this being a fantasy realm, and the NightBrothers largely unexplored, I can't say that it is absolutely impossible, but on the other hand I have no precedent for anything like this and not sure how to handle it.

Thoughts?

No. No is my thought. Some players take the creative freedom and push the boundaries outside of what actually is Star Wars. IMO, teleportation is in the territory of a "No" response by the GM. There is only one instance of teleportation in the Star Wars canon: in the Han Solo comic miniseries. A single race uses a teleporter that nobody really knew about and they don't understand to travel back to their dimension or galaxy or something. It shuts and is never able to function again. Something to that effect. A single instance of such a thing in all the galaxy as far as I'm concerned. Teleportation isn't a normal Star Wars technology. Having it exist opens up so many plot holes into the story of Star Wars. It essentially changes the course of history if teleportation exists, whether as technology or with the Force.

I had a player want a functioning mini-Stargate on their necklace. I allowed to to be shaped like one and be like a comlink or a very small datapad but as far as the actual teleportation effect or the ability to send messages through the gate the answer was "No, this is Star Wars, not Stargate." I then explained WHY teleportation can't exist in Star Wars. It makes all the hyperspace stuff, the transmissions of messages, racing against the clock, all of points where time matters in the history of Star Wars become pointless.

 

I had a player that also wanted to tell others what they could and couldn't do to create their own characters. That was another instance that issued a "No" response.

Sometimes No is an appropriate response. The trick is to learn when it's appropriate. Having a thematic element that completely disregards the state of technology in Star Wars & creates a myriad of GM issues is definitely something that warrants a "No" response. I would explain to the player why teleportation can't exist, or, at least, it needs to be handled with extreme caution. Nobody else can acquire this technology or power including the PCs and the galaxy outside of this one character cannot learn that teleportation exists.

1 hour ago, Panda72 said:

It's part of his backstory.  He met a super strong NightBrother that exiled him effectively.  Instead of declaring him to be in exile, the NightBrother literally just sent him off to a different planet and the character has no idea how he got there or how to get back.  It was a malicious attack in the story.  I'm of the opinion that he can't have that happen, but he really, really like the "coolness" effect of having his character suddenly in an unknown environment among strangers.  It's effectively how he wants to start the adventure, but he's willing to leave the rest of the story up to me.  It just makes the initial meeting very hard to figure out as this guy suddenly appears in the middle of a crowd, angry and disoriented, and through no means that I can explain within my understanding of the universe and I'm supposed to be the GM.  

He's a new player and I'm a new GM though so I don't want to crush his very creative backstory just due to my lack of experience, hence why I wanted to see what others would do.

Offer the player an alternative that is still cool as others have said here. Hypnosis. Maybe everyone was drugged there and doesn't remember the last few minutes of when the character was "placed" there. Maybe all the people claiming that the player just appeared were in on the scam. Work with the player to come up with a cool story element that doesn't make Star Wars into Stargate or Star Trek. Or allow it if you like but I'd be very, very cautious about it because you'll run into issues such as "the Nightbrother can literally teleport to your quarters on the ship, kill you in your sleep & teleport out before anyone notices. He can TPK the entire party."

Edited by GroggyGolem

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2 hours ago, hyperfocal said:

Instant teleportation might be the character's recollection, but that doesn't mean that's what actually HAPPENED. He may have been drugged or had his consciousness & memories force-tinkered-with then delivered the old fashioned way... in the hold of a crummy tramp freighter. A tramp freighter who's pilot may *know* things (plot hook alert)

^ This.

Based on your other thread, sounds like this player (I'm assuming he's the one who walked away from the other PC) is going to be a problem.  He needs to understand it's a cooperative game, and not everything revolves around him.  If he's new to RPGs, he might be under the delusion that it's like a video game, except you do all the work of writing the script he wants you to write, and never mind the rest of the party.

Plus, the whole premise sounds a bit juvenile.  Even Palpatine couldn't have done what this NightBrother is supposed to have done.  It's off-the-chart.  If you don't ground your universe in something concrete and understandable, it just descends into arbitrary chaos.

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3 hours ago, Panda72 said:

It's part of his backstory.  He met a super strong NightBrother that exiled him effectively.  Instead of declaring him to be in exile, the NightBrother literally just sent him off to a different planet and the character has no idea how he got there or how to get back.  It was a malicious attack in the story.  I'm of the opinion that he can't have that happen, but he really, really like the "coolness" effect of having his character suddenly in an unknown environment among strangers.  It's effectively how he wants to start the adventure, but he's willing to leave the rest of the story up to me.  It just makes the initial meeting very hard to figure out as this guy suddenly appears in the middle of a crowd, angry and disoriented, and through no means that I can explain within my understanding of the universe and I'm supposed to be the GM.  

He's a new player and I'm a new GM though so I don't want to crush his very creative backstory just due to my lack of experience, hence why I wanted to see what others would do.

Drug induced amnesia.

Poor PC got doped up by a huckster with an outlandish story, who dropped him on a ship.  The crew kept him down for the duration of the trip and then dumped him in a back alley.

 

The "powers" that you're describing violate the "meta" laws of physics for the Star Wars universe.  It simply can't work the way he is describing.  But that doesn't necessarily mean that the character isn't delusional. :mellow:

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As mentioned, this is a legitimate force power of the EU and agents of the emperor are using it. But the EU has destroying a whole starcluster with the force as well as one of the powers of the sith sorceress  Aleema Keto. And the ewok movies have as well transformation into animals as force power and portraits the days of the long forgotten past as days with much stronger knowledge of the past and Palpatine as basically the only remaining relict of that past, while the jedi have forgotten most of that dangerous knowledge. 

From the perspective that has the force as 5th fundamental force of the universe, like the electromagnetic field or the gravity field, it makes as well sense as force wielders can gain access to this force and manipulate it without expanding much of their own power. (Now the concept of force wielders itself is mambo jambo naturally, but as long as you accept the basic premise it is not a big stretch to allow manipulations of space-time.) Mortis-Arc for TCW makes a lot of that canon btw, at least from a certain point of view. 

So the question for you is: Do you want such obscure and powerful abilities in your game or not. And if you want them, how rare you want them, etc? There are easy ways to achieve the same narrative effect, just knocking out the PC and transporting him by ship works just as well, but there is no larger consequence to the universe either if there is this one nightbrother with access to this rare and obscure force power as long as the power itself stays hidden and forgotten knowledge. It still a question of how the game table canon looks like, so make a decision with the whole table and their headcanon of star wars. 

21 minutes ago, Mark Caliber said:

The "powers" that you're describing violate the "meta" laws of physics for the Star Wars universe.  It simply can't work the way he is describing.  But that doesn't necessarily mean that the character isn't delusional. :mellow:

How so? 

That is a strong statement, which makes me interested in your basis for it. 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Fold_space <<< First appearance in a Zahn novell, the fan favorite. 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Teleport

 

 

 

Edited by SEApocalypse

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That background sets off all kinds of alarm bells for me. As Whafrog said, he sounds like a problem player who is overly concerned with his own Mary-Sue character and might ever expect to be the centre of attention every session. To me this teleportation malarkey just sounds silly. It also sounds like something that a janky player would use later on.

"How will we ever get to that Turbo Super Mystery McGuffin planet where all the plot is?"
"I know a guy who can send us there with his mind!" Boom! Plot is dead in the water.

Regardless of whether or not long distance teleportation is a legitimate Star Wars thing or not is completely irrelevant. If this would not really fit into your campaign then don't allow it.

If I were to allow this I would do as other posters have suggested; allow the player to believe this is what happened to him, but then later on have him come across the same "Nightbrother" pulling his "I'm a powerful force user!" scam on another rube who he also drugs and robs then dumps him on a tramp freighter bound for the back arse of now where.

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1 hour ago, McHydesinyourpants said:

Regardless of whether or not long distance teleportation is a legitimate Star Wars thing or not is completely irrelevant. If this would not really fit into your campaign then don't allow it.

Absolutely agree on principle, but small reminder: What really happens is absolutely irrelevant. If the PC got teleported, knocked out, drugged or his mind manipulated by the force is in the end completely irrelevant. The nightbrother from his story does not need to ever show up again and the PC does not even need to know where is homeworld is. 400 billion stars in the galaxy, unknown regions with billions of suns unexplored and beyond reach for most of galactic society.

It really doesn't matter in this case and for that very reason I would usually allow it, but make it as well absolutely clear that this homeworld is unreachable for the PC beyond any shadow of a doubt, which should deal fine with all expectations of the player. 

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14 hours ago, Mark Caliber said:

...

The "powers" that you're describing violate the "meta" laws of physics for the Star Wars universe.  It simply can't work the way he is describing. . .

14 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

How so? 

That is a strong statement, which makes me interested in your basis for it.

 

My answer is the FnD RAW.

SeaApocalypse, you're also quoting sources that I don't know about.  For me, I've seen 8 movies, forgot about the TV specials (willingly) and . . . seen a couple of episodes of Clone Wars.  That's it.

My group is slowly introducing me to some of the "Expanded Universe" stuff, but we're rejecting quite a bit of it as contradictory nonsense.

 

Going back to my opinion, I believe that the described power has the potential to break the game.  It certainly breaks my "Suspenders of Disbelief."

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11 minutes ago, Mark Caliber said:

My answer is the FnD RAW.

To be honest, I don't see how this is against RAW. So if you don't mind to point me to page, maybe I missed something, the fluff texts with some rules mixed in are especially hard to read for me and I tend to go over them without reading much. 

But otherwise, your perspective is imho reason enough, which is a good answer for the GM in question as well. If he does not like this aspect of legends he can choose to ignore it just fine. Just like immortal sith lords, overtaking bodies, directly stealing life force , hostile force ghosts and dark side force phantoms, etc  …

It is and always should be: Your table plays like your table please. And no one outside of that table as the right to judge, as everyone shall have the game they like. 

Still, I don't think your opinion is correct on that this power of a non-recurring background NPC can break the game. It breaks the game as much as darth plagues supposedly ability to cheat death. It is an element which does not require proof, nor does it need ever to show up again. It just background fluff for all practical purpose.  

 

 

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I allow a degree of latitude, and have asked for it more than a few times with various PCs, as long as it makes sense for the setting and doesn't single the character out as being "too special" in contrast to the rest of the group.

What they player in the OP's post is wanting breaks both of those.  While Force storm might be a thing in Legends, the only person we saw manifest that ability was Palpatine, who by that point was pretty much the ultimate master of the dark side of the Force, to the point of nearly being a living avatar of the dark side.  Having some random villain suddenly do something like that "just because" reeks of the player wanting to be "super special snowflake" and thus more important than the rest of the PCs.

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@Donovan Morningfire Nah, there are plenty of other characters and examples of force storms, Tython is named that way for a reason. ;-) And not even in canon is Palpatine even close to being an Avatar of the darkside, his powers are insignificant to the powers of the son (TCW, Mortis arc).  In Legends terms he is the strongest sith in over a thousand years, but still not even close to the sith of legends from 3,000 years ago. Canon states as well that "someone" is bringing back the weapons of old, like weaponized kyber crystals for the death star, stuff that has been seen before in wars against the sith. 

Legends has a sith sorceress destroying a whole star cluster with the force. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with not using this material either. I hate for example the suncrusher, and the vong and a million other things from legends, like actually Palpatine casting force storms in dark empire. The eclipse is not my fan favorite either, etc  pick out of the large amount of publications what you like. Build your own canon or stick to whatever you enjoy. 

@Mark Caliber I did not thought that you meant it this literal as in "no such force power in the books", especially as the devs keep emphasizing everywhere that expanding your universe above what they have written is fine and encouraged. Though I am not a fan of force teleportation either. :D 

Edited by SEApocalypse

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21 hours ago, Panda72 said:

Thoughts?

I tend to give my players a whole bunch of latitude when coming up with backstories and working them into the game. That said, I'd probably put the kibosh on this angle. While Star Wars has lots of room for all kinds of crazy things, time travel* and  teleportation are two things one step over the line. Wont ever happen in my game, no way no how.

 

*With the exception of forward movement - and even then it's only time dilatation through hyperspace accidents or suspended animation and the like. Want to play a Padawan from the Sith War era at Yavin? We can do that. Want to play an Imperial Knight back in the Clone Wars? Brace yourself for crushing disappointment.

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On 3/1/2017 at 6:19 PM, hyperfocal said:

Instant teleportation might be the character's recollection, but that doesn't mean that's what actually HAPPENED. He may have been drugged or had his consciousness & memories force-tinkered-with then delivered the old fashioned way... in the hold of a crummy tramp freighter. A tramp freighter who's pilot may *know* things (plot hook alert)

 

23 hours ago, 2P51 said:

Hypnosis.

Tell him that is how his the reality his character know, but also inform him that isn't what really happened. From there you can either explain it to him right there, or save if for a reveal for later. For example i would do something like this personally.

Sure that is what your character accepts as the truth, that is how it happened from his perception. In reality he was knocked out by some means (force based attack, poison, Knockout Gas, what ever makes sense) and the "Darkbrother" had made a deal with a "Dark and Vengeful God of Death" (Look to Vader and the Noghri http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Noghri ) to get rid of the PC in exchange for the native's help in achieving his goal.

So while the character might believe he was teleported with the force or magic, that is simply what he believes not what really happened. This can lead to some great and interesting RP where the character is going off of his Character knowledge, especially if the player knows that knowledge is actually false, but has the chracter act as if it is real anyways. However that does require some good RP from the player in question, which really does depend on the player.

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This is all great advice.  I've got to get more creative in handling these situations.  Really appreciate this community.  You've all been helpful.  I'm going to try to approach it with the "drugged and left on another planet" option while allowing his character to believe he was transported.  Hopefully that gets us the best of both options.

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9 minutes ago, Panda72 said:

This is all great advice.  I've got to get more creative in handling these situations.  Really appreciate this community.  You've all been helpful.  I'm going to try to approach it with the "drugged and left on another planet" option while allowing his character to believe he was transported.  Hopefully that gets us the best of both options.

Awesome! I hope you include an future encounter with the "Nightbrother". I know I would love to write/run/play through that purely for the look on that player's face :P

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6 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

I am not sure if it is wise to rule out time-travel in a universe with FTL communication and even travel. :D 
But it is certainly a wise rule for an RPG table :D

Well, faster than light communication can be handwaved away and it's not very damaging in the big picture. I mean hopping in the TARDIS and flitting back to Mustfar and putting a blaster bolt through a mortally wounded Anakin's head. That doesnt feel very Star Warsy to me.

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