Zuvio

[Izikial 16]

Hi. Zuvios rule says he can drop bombs even ones with the action header while reversing. Dose that still actualy take his action or is it done as a freebe and so with a pattern anyliser he could do another action?

[InquisitorM 632]

It's free, just like Deathfire.

[Izikial 16]

Thanks for the reply. Great news

[WWHSD 9,273]

Using Zuvio's ability to drop a bomb is not an action even if he is dropping an action bomb.

[digitalbusker 2,248]

This question has already been well answered, but I want to nerd out about rules minutiae for a sec, so....

The drop keyword is defined on the Using Bombs reference card (or I guess more currently on p7 of the Rules Reference). All the Action: on an action bomb or the timing text on a dial-reveal bomb does is tell you the circumstances under which you can drop that particular bomb and what token to use. The other thing each bomb upgrade card tells you is the circumstances under which its associated token will detonate, the effect of which is defined on the specific reference card associated with the bomb type.

So an effect that directs you to drop a bomb just gives you another circumstance in which you can enter the drop procedure. Selecting an action bomb doesn't automatically use up an action, any more than it would allow you to trigger other "on dial reveal" effects if you chose a dial-reveal bomb.

ETA:

To be more consistent with the wording of other cards that have both passive/triggered effects and Action: headers, action bombs should be worded differently. Something like this:

Conner Net [bomb] 4
When a ship's base or maneuver template overlaps a Conner Net token, it detonates. (triggered effect)
Action: Discard this card to drop a Conner Net token. (action header)

In the case of effects that allow you to drop a Conner Net without taking its Action:, we still have a little bit of hand-waving to associate the drop with the right kind of token, because I don't know that that's spelled out anywhere but in the action itself, but that's well within even my tolerance.

Maybe, to avoid "but where are the rules that say it detonates after the card is discarded?" trolling the detonation condition should be on the reference card too, but all the bombs work like that. It occurs to me that this is precedent against the idea that if you could somehow force someone to discard Extra Munitions their remaining munitions tokens wouldn't work.

Edited March 1, 2017 by digitalbusker
Added the section on wording consistency.

[Izikial 16]

Nice digitalbusker. That actualy help. Give a man a fish, teach a man to fish and all that

[digitalbusker 2,248]

Just now, Izikial said:

Nice digitalbusker. That actualy help. Give a man a fish, teach a man to fish and all that

I am constantly bothering people with offers of fishing lessons.

[ObiWonka 7,081]

10 hours ago, Izikial said:

Nice digitalbusker. That actualy help. Give a man a fish, teach a man to fish and all that

You should read @digitalbusker's post history. You'll know all the rules.

[GrogEgrog 189]

13 hours ago, digitalbusker said:

 

In the case of effects that allow you to drop a Conner Net without taking its Action:, we still have a little bit of hand-waving to associate the drop with the right kind of token, because I don't know that that's spelled out anywhere but in the action itself, but that's well within even my tolerance.

 

I'm actually a little more frightened at the the thought of dropping action bombs without performing the Action. All of them are "Action discard this card to drop _______" so with Zuvios being able to drop without the action it doesn't force the discard.  

The action of discarding is what triggers drop in normal circumstances. 

[thespaceinvader 17,568]

Nope.

All Zuvio does is stop you needing to spend an action to trigger the card.  The rest of the text still happens.

Or at least, that's unquestionably the intention, so trying to lawyer around it is dumb.

(They could also have written the ability more clearly, for sure)

[GrogEgrog 189]

Assuming is also dumb. Time and time again the answer is do what the card says not what you think it says. And to not add fluff 

"When you reveal a reverse maneuver, you may drop a bomb using your front guides (including a bomb with the "Action:" header)."

"ACTION: Discard this card to drop 1 Conner net token. "

So you reveal and drop no discard  

I 100% agree that the upgrade should be discarded. There's just nothing instructing you to do so. Because as you said it's poorly worded.

  This I am sure will be covered in the next errata but for now I see a Quad doing its damnedest to bump and drop clusters over and over  

 

[muribundi 406]

In fact, you would also not discard "on reveal" bomb. The way it is worded, it replace the normal on reveal bomb trigger. Look at Deathrain wording, this is the proper one for using the normal bomb trigger.

It should have said: "When dropping a bomb on reverse maneuver, you may use your front guide. When revealing a reverse maneuver, you may perform a free bomb Action using your front guides."

They wanted to save way too many words and now it mean you would not discard the upgrade. It is clearly not the intent, but this is what is happening. They will probably fix it by including the discard inside the drop rule.

Edited March 2, 2017 by muribundi

[digitalbusker 2,248]

13 hours ago, ObiWonka said:

You should read @digitalbusker's post history. You'll know all the rules.

Don't go too far back, though, because in a few ambiguous RAW/RAI situations I have staked out positions that were contrary to what the devs eventually said.

[ObiWonka 7,081]

5 hours ago, muribundi said:

It should have said: "When dropping a bomb on reverse maneuver, you may use your front guide. When revealing a reverse maneuver, you may perform a free bomb Action using your front guides."

Small corner case: Zuvio wouldn't be able to under that wording, but currently can, drop his bomb (even an Action: one) while stressed. Given that reverse maneuvers are red and he'd end up doing a 2-straight onto his own bomb (unless he equipped Adrenaline Rush?), it seems of dubious value, but...

[muribundi 406]

I don't think they worded it that way to work will stressed...