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The Future of the Expanded Universe (Legends) in X-Wing Miniatures

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13 minutes ago, JJFDVORAK said:

I'll add the Muy'til fighter, Chiss clawcraft, Tie Droid, and the Preybird and I'd say it's a pretty good list. Make it happen, FFG. I'll take 4 of each. :)

I'd buy 100 points worth of clawcraff, probably the same for the miy'til. Would get at least one predator

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3 hours ago, You Look Like A Nail said:

1. Is there anything I can read which is significantly better than the Thrawn books?  Let me know, and I'll find a copy and give it a go.  I don't have the time or inclination to play computer games so I'd have to take your word on those.

If your interested in some good EU reading, here are my favorite books(in no particular order)

The Han Solo Adventures by Brian Daley. Written in the late 70s before even ESB, they are the original prequels in that they tell the story of several of Han and Chewie's pre rebellion/ smuggling adventures. 

The Han Solo Trilogy by A C Crispin (RIP) These 3 books tell the story of Han Solo's life from early teens through the Imperial Academy to early smuggling days to a chance meeting in a certain cantina. Good stories and some of my favorite because they really get the feel of Han Solo right. Unfortunately, both of these series will soon be swept away by the Han Solo movie, which I am sure will be OK, but I doubt will be as good as these books. 

The Courtship of Princess Leia by Dave Wolverton. This book is post RotJ and tells the story of how Han and Leia almost don't get married. It was also the first mention of a planet called Dathomir and the force welding witches of the Night Sisters. Also the introduction of the Hapes Cluster. Pretty fun read and some cool battle scenes. 

If you want an easy, read in a day or two series, the Young Jedi Knights series (not Junior Jedi knights series) by Kevin J Anderson and Rebecca Moesta is pretty good and tells the story of Han and Leia's twins Jacen and Jaina and younger son Anakin. Also Kevin J Anderson's other series, The Jedi Academy series, tells about Luke's attempt to begin a new Jedi order and the trials that him and his students face, from Dark Side spirits to Imperial Remnant Warlords.  Admiral Daala is a pretty cool female Empire Baddie. 

There are many, many more on my shelf and even more in the EU. Many where best sellers upon release and are very good. If you have to read just one, I say go for the Courtship of Princess Leia. It's probably my favorite.

 

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39 minutes ago, JJFDVORAK said:

The Han Solo Trilogy by A C Crispin (RIP) These 3 books tell the story of Han Solo's life from early teens through the Imperial Academy to early smuggling days to a chance meeting in a certain cantina. Good stories and some of my favorite because they really get the feel of Han Solo right. Unfortunately, both of these series will soon be swept away by the Han Solo movie, which I am sure will be OK, but I doubt will be as good as these books. 

I'm sure the young Han movie will be different from the ban solo trilogy, but on the other hand there may be some similarities. I seem to recall reading it was going to have Garris Shrike in it, who's only in those books as I recall

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Fact of the matter is, because the game needed to grow, the designers had no alternatives but to add EU ships, and we're stuck with these poor designs now. Because of power creep, they're often among the best ships. And we'll still see some new ones probably, because Scum has trouble finding suitable ships from the movies. But given the steady supply of new films, I think we can avoid the worst and have good hope that there will never be a gunboat etc.

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9 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

I'm sure the young Han movie will be different from the ban solo trilogy, but on the other hand there may be some similarities. I seem to recall reading it was going to have Garris Shrike in it, who's only in those books as I recall

Yeah, I heard that Harris Shrike is the character the Wooden Hareleson is playing. That gives me a little hope that those books will not be completely invalidated and that at least the writers are looking at old EU content.  I always liked those books and I'll be happy if they pull the main characters out of them. Not to mention one of the main themes of the books( Han falling in love with, effectively, a drug addict and being torn up by losing her and having her chose the addiction over him) is pretty good and unfortunately all to relevant in today's world. I wouldn't mind seeing it echoed in the film.

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33 minutes ago, You Look Like A Nail said:

Thank you for this, I'll have a look.

I think you'll enjoy them. I think I would start with the Han Solo ones, because they will soon be "gone" thanks to the new Han Solo movie. By the way, does anyone else think that movie is kinda unnecessary and are slightly annoyed at a different actor playing Han Solo? I know that they would have to get someone else to play young Han since Harrison Ford is now crazy old, but still. 

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20 hours ago, ThalanirIII said:

Well luckily, TFA was aimed at people who hadn't had the time to go through all of that enough to have the memes get boring and tired.

 

Also, why should my enjoyment of a movie depend on a game released 10+ years ago and which looks (by modern standards) rubbish? If I can even figure out how to play it on a modern system?

Some tropes are hard to stomach even once: 

- Suncrusher Darksaber Starkiller base

- Solo children,  

- Solowalker going Darkside for NO APPARENT REASON, 

- Corran Horn Poe Dameron, etc.

I admit that TFA brought some new tropes in but they sucked too:

- Three Eyed Raven who was white walkered before uttering more than two lines

- Ed Sheeran as an Imperial General

- Brienne of ******* Tarth not actually fighting

The other part was a bit of a non sequitur.  Enjoy the movie with retro games or clad in guilty pleasure slave leia outfits or whilst eating icecream buried by chilli peanuts.  Or all three.  Whatever: your boat, your float.

Edited by Xerandar

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15 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

Given that TFA alone invalidated probably more than half of the EU, I'm gonna still go with no it's not.  It's not true until they say it is.  Thrawn is back (but not going to be exactly the same as in the EU, they've already changed stuff for him), TIE Defender is back, etc, but way more is invalidated than has been added back.

The move from EU to Legends happened almost a year before TFA came out.  So....they moved everything into the "it's true until it's not".   Then, TFA came out and did nix a bunch of the old stuff that was post RotJ.  Yes, it's true.  Disney chose not to go with the direction Lucas had.  I'm fine with that.  I didn't read those books.  I know you aren't fine with that.  I believe you are in the minority, though.  I do agree that it's frustrating to see what you enjoyed chopped up, but I don't think it's done to be cruel or greedy by Disney.  It's one of those things that they want Star Wars to thrive, be coherent, and enjoyed by everyone.  That does bring money to them, but it's also done out of a love for the story.  Those people at Lucas don't hate Star Wars, but I'm sure they don't mind putting all EU into Legends to then sort through.  It makes smart sense to say that everything is re-assessed to ensure that it fits in with what the new owners want to do for a direction.  

What I see as the difference is that most people don't know or love the stuff that is being invalidated.  They like the stuff that's coming out now that Disney has bought Star Wars.  They don't see a problem.  There is a small minority of Star Wars fans that read all of that and enjoyed it all.  Yes, I can see your perspective is that Disney is horrible for destroying all the stuff that you loved, but....I have to say I think it's for the best.  They can build a coherent story and do it right.  They can fit it all together to weave a more coherent tapestry of Star Wars stuff.  I know that's not your perspective and I am sorry that it's something that bugs you.  I disagree, but I have sympathy.  

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Yeah, it's best to remember that many of the people in the room when these kinds of decisions are made have also read and played the same stuff that we have.  The decision to produce a sequel trilogy necessitated a practical cleaning of the slate; they needed room to write a story.  But it doesn't mean that they don't love many parts of the EU or have a desire to reintroduce them and reimagine them.  They're also not stupid; there's an economical incentive to give significant nods to the EU, so that nerds like us feel served.  It makes little difference to a new fan whether or not Thrawn is a wholly new invention or a callback from the EU; he's being introduced to them for the first time either way.  

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15 hours ago, Admiral Deathrain said:

Really? I avoided that one like the plague, because Corran Horn. Would you say it is enjoyable for someone who absolutely hated that character through all of the X-Wing series?

Well, if you don't like Corran Horn that could be a problem :P.  Though he does grow some throughout the book.

8 hours ago, heychadwick said:

The move from EU to Legends happened almost a year before TFA came out.  So....they moved everything into the "it's true until it's not".   Then, TFA came out and did nix a bunch of the old stuff that was post RotJ.  Yes, it's true.  Disney chose not to go with the direction Lucas had.  I'm fine with that.  I didn't read those books.  I know you aren't fine with that.  I believe you are in the minority, though.  I do agree that it's frustrating to see what you enjoyed chopped up, but I don't think it's done to be cruel or greedy by Disney.  It's one of those things that they want Star Wars to thrive, be coherent, and enjoyed by everyone.  That does bring money to them, but it's also done out of a love for the story.  Those people at Lucas don't hate Star Wars, but I'm sure they don't mind putting all EU into Legends to then sort through.  It makes smart sense to say that everything is re-assessed to ensure that it fits in with what the new owners want to do for a direction.  

What I see as the difference is that most people don't know or love the stuff that is being invalidated.  They like the stuff that's coming out now that Disney has bought Star Wars.  They don't see a problem.  There is a small minority of Star Wars fans that read all of that and enjoyed it all.  Yes, I can see your perspective is that Disney is horrible for destroying all the stuff that you loved, but....I have to say I think it's for the best.  They can build a coherent story and do it right.  They can fit it all together to weave a more coherent tapestry of Star Wars stuff.  I know that's not your perspective and I am sorry that it's something that bugs you.  I disagree, but I have sympathy.  

Where's the evidence for "It's true until it's not".  Who said that?  All the evidence I've seen looks a helluva lot more like it's not true unless they decide to cherry-pick bits and pieces of it back.  TFA alone probably invalidated more than half of the old EU, and Rogue One some more of it.  That doesn't look much like assuming it's all true until proven otherwise.

As for being fine with it or not, I actually said earlier that I understand exactly why disney did it and don't fault them for it.  You're completely misunderstanding my argument here.  I'm not upset, and think we'll get much better movies and stories out of them by not being constrained by the old EU.  I don't think disny is "horrible" for wiping out the EU.  I actually think disney buying lucasfilm is the best thing that could possibly have happened for star wars, since they make a lot of good movies.  I just disagree with your statements about the "status" of the old EU.  It's dead and gone.  It's available for them to use stuff from if they so desire, but anything they haven't chosen to canonize yet might as well not exist as far as star wars goes anymore.

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46 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

Well, if you don't like Corran Horn that could be a problem :P.  Though he does grow some throughout the book.

Where's the evidence for "It's true until it's not".  Who said that?  All the evidence I've seen looks a helluva lot more like it's not true unless they decide to cherry-pick bits and pieces of it back.  TFA alone probably invalidated more than half of the old EU, and Rogue One some more of it.  That doesn't look much like assuming it's all true until proven otherwise.

  I just disagree with your statements about the "status" of the old EU.  It's dead and gone.  It's available for them to use stuff from if they so desire, but anything they haven't chosen to canonize yet might as well not exist as far as star wars goes anymore.

Where is the evidence that says "it's true until it's not"?  Look at what they have done so far.  They make the announcement about EU is now Legends.  Everything is put into the "true until it's not".   Then, they come out with TFA.  It moves a chunk into the "not true" section.   There is still quite a bit that's still in the "true until it's not" section.   Star Wars Rebels puts in Admiral Thrawn.  That character is now true true.  What the whole Thrawn trilogy?  We don't know.  It is still in the "true until it's not" section.  Admiral Thrawn is saved, though.  He's not trashed.  The Bounty Hunter Wars?  Still true until it's not.  It's there and fine until they re-write it.  Will they rewrite it?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  We don't know.  

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16 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Where is the evidence that says "it's true until it's not"?  Look at what they have done so far.  They make the announcement about EU is now Legends.  Everything is put into the "true until it's not".   Then, they come out with TFA.  It moves a chunk into the "not true" section.   There is still quite a bit that's still in the "true until it's not" section.   Star Wars Rebels puts in Admiral Thrawn.  That character is now true true.  What the whole Thrawn trilogy?  We don't know.  It is still in the "true until it's not" section.  Admiral Thrawn is saved, though.  He's not trashed.  The Bounty Hunter Wars?  Still true until it's not.  It's there and fine until they re-write it.  Will they rewrite it?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  We don't know.  

Yes, they made the announcement about the EU being "legends".  Where does that put it into the "true until its not true", as opposed to "not true unless we say it is"?  Even stuff they canonize is different from the EU.  Thrawn is back, but already is changed from the EU, and the thrawn trilogy literally can't be true based on what we have post-RotJ now.  The TIE Defender is canonized, but also has a different history from the EU (where it was developed shortly before endor, not back before yavin).  Re-writing stuff doesn't make everything "true until it's not".  It makes whatever bits they decide to write back in true and ignores or throws out everything esle.

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10 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Don't forget the Cloakshape, Scum could do with a heavy fighter as well...

Was mentioned in one of the new books actually - Heir to the Jedi I want to say?. Not crazy to assume it could be in the game, though it might be a little weird - the main advantage of Cloakshapes is they're cheap and have a lot of aftermarket - otherwise I don't know how they'd really make a name over extant scum ships. FFG would need to do something like Royal Guard right off the bat to capture that sort of thing - or something. Or a title/mod card which is like "pick one off this list of 3 possible effects".

Also in general, going to second that above about I, Jedi - it's very humanizing for Horn who is normally a pretty flat character who just does well despite rarely being right in X-Wing. Also it's critical of the JAT if you did not care for that. 

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57 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

Was mentioned in one of the new books actually - Heir to the Jedi I want to say?. Not crazy to assume it could be in the game, though it might be a little weird - the main advantage of Cloakshapes is they're cheap and have a lot of aftermarket - otherwise I don't know how they'd really make a name over extant scum ships. FFG would need to do something like Royal Guard right off the bat to capture that sort of thing - or something. Or a title/mod card which is like "pick one off this list of 3 possible effects".

Also in general, going to second that above about I, Jedi - it's very humanizing for Horn who is normally a pretty flat character who just does well despite rarely being right in X-Wing. Also it's critical of the JAT if you did not care for that. 

Yeah, I agree about the Cloakshapes. They were supposed to be just OK and very modifiable. I'm not sure if there is really design space there not already occupied by the Z95 and the Syck. I think, if I remember correctly, they were originally atmospheric craft that could be made space worthy. So if we ever get a ground based expansion with airspeeders and walkers, maybe the Cloakshape could be the scum atmospheric craft. Just a thought. 

As far as I Jedi goes, I really don't remember it well enough. What do you mean it's critical of JAT(is this Jedi Academy Trilogy?)?

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A lot of people have criticism about how certain characters act or things are resolved in the Jedi Academy Trilogy, or some other general plot aspects, the whole first act of I, Jedi is set in that time period, and Corran acts as a bit of a voice in agreement of a lot of people who have that problems and it also kind of rolls into maybe more introspection about some of that stuff which helps drive I, Jedi forward. If you were reading Legends material in timeline order, it might act as a bit of a palette cleanser for the typical foibles of a "big trilogy" novel series in the EU era. 

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11 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

 The TIE Defender is canonized, but also has a different history from the EU (where it was developed shortly before endor, not back before yavin).  

Actually even the Legendsverse portrayed work on the TIE Defender as beginning before Yavin - though it wasn't till right before Endor that production-model Defenders entered service.

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On 2/27/2017 at 10:53 PM, JJFDVORAK said:

If your interested in some good EU reading, here are my favorite books(in no particular order)

 

 

To add to this, I will say the best of the best of the EU (and indeed most of it is awful) is the The Lando Calrissian Adventures: The Mindharp of Sharu. It can be hard to find a copy, but it is very well-written and tight, really stays true to the character of Lando, and has one of the most clever twists ever conceived.  It also the first appearance/mention of a beloved character (don't worry, no spoilers!).  Also, it's unlikely to be "undone" by new movies since I doubt they'll explore too much of Lando's story, even with his appearance in the Han film.

Edited by AllWingsStandyingBy

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13 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

Yes, they made the announcement about the EU being "legends".  Where does that put it into the "true until its not true", as opposed to "not true unless we say it is"?  Even stuff they canonize is different from the EU.  Thrawn is back, but already is changed from the EU, and the thrawn trilogy literally can't be true based on what we have post-RotJ now.  The TIE Defender is canonized, but also has a different history from the EU (where it was developed shortly before endor, not back before yavin).  Re-writing stuff doesn't make everything "true until it's not".  It makes whatever bits they decide to write back in true and ignores or throws out everything esle.

At first, everyone thought the announcement that moved EU to Legends said that everything that was EU was null and void.  It was no longer canon and it never happened.  Everything that is not in the movies is gone.  Dengar doesn't have a ship called the Punishing One b/c it's not in the movies.  Zuckuss doesn't have the Mist Hunter.  There is no Admiral Thrawn or Mara Jade.  They don't exist.  The entire EU has been utterly flushed and destroyed.  This was not true at all.  They said that everything is kind of put in a limbo status where it's still there until they change it.  This statement came out before any of the books or movies.  It was true then.  So...at that point, everything was there, until they changed it.  It's true until it's not.

Since then, they have come out with TFA and a bunch of new stuff.  Some of the old EU is totally negated.  It is gone.  It is moved into the "not" category.  Yes, some things were just wiped out.  Not everything.   Thrawn was kept, but his exact story isn't the same.  We don't even know what they are going to do with him in the overall story.  They might have some bit that fits in where many of the things from the Thrawn Trilogy still happen.  Maybe.  We don't know.  It won't be exactly like it was, but it might keep a lot of the main plot.  Thrawn still exists, though.  This is part of the "true until it's not" that has moved into "not".  These things have been changed.  It's not everything.  It's some things.   

There are other aspects that we don't know about.  I am 100% confident that they will pull out a Mara Jade character at some point in the future.  It won't be the same as it was, but I'm sure that she will be used to some extent.  To me, she's still out there as a talked about character of Legend, but we don't know exactly what the story is.  To me, this is part of the "true until it's not".  There is a Mara Jade character out there, but we just don't know the details.   I'm sure there are other characters or planets or even plot lines that can be grabbed and re-used, but not in exactly the same way.  

What I see is that you are focusing on the stuff that has been moved to "Not" and are saying that it was never in the "True" part.  It was...until the new movie came out.  

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23 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Don't forget the Cloakshape, Scum could do with a heavy fighter as well...

Before that one is incorporated I would rather see the M12L Kimogila (which is designated as heavy, and looks like one), or more titles (e.g. Vaksai) for the Kihraxz (there we have already a highly modular, much aftermarket-modified starfighter).

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2 hours ago, heychadwick said:

At first, everyone thought the announcement that moved EU to Legends said that everything that was EU was null and void.  It was no longer canon and it never happened.  Everything that is not in the movies is gone.  Dengar doesn't have a ship called the Punishing One b/c it's not in the movies.  Zuckuss doesn't have the Mist Hunter.  There is no Admiral Thrawn or Mara Jade.  They don't exist.  The entire EU has been utterly flushed and destroyed.  This was not true at all.  They said that everything is kind of put in a limbo status where it's still there until they change it.  This statement came out before any of the books or movies.  It was true then.  So...at that point, everything was there, until they changed it.  It's true until it's not.

Since then, they have come out with TFA and a bunch of new stuff.  Some of the old EU is totally negated.  It is gone.  It is moved into the "not" category.  Yes, some things were just wiped out.  Not everything.   Thrawn was kept, but his exact story isn't the same.  We don't even know what they are going to do with him in the overall story.  They might have some bit that fits in where many of the things from the Thrawn Trilogy still happen.  Maybe.  We don't know.  It won't be exactly like it was, but it might keep a lot of the main plot.  Thrawn still exists, though.  This is part of the "true until it's not" that has moved into "not".  These things have been changed.  It's not everything.  It's some things.   

There are other aspects that we don't know about.  I am 100% confident that they will pull out a Mara Jade character at some point in the future.  It won't be the same as it was, but I'm sure that she will be used to some extent.  To me, she's still out there as a talked about character of Legend, but we don't know exactly what the story is.  To me, this is part of the "true until it's not".  There is a Mara Jade character out there, but we just don't know the details.   I'm sure there are other characters or planets or even plot lines that can be grabbed and re-used, but not in exactly the same way.  

What I see is that you are focusing on the stuff that has been moved to "Not" and are saying that it was never in the "True" part.  It was...until the new movie came out.  

 

Quote

In order to give maximum creative freedom to the filmmakers and also preserve an element of surprise and discovery for the audience, Star Wars Episodes VII-IX will not tell the same story told in the post-Return of the Jedi Expanded Universe. While the universe that readers knew is changing, it is not being discarded. Creators of new Star Wars entertainment have full access to the rich content of the Expanded Universe. For example, elements of the EU are included in Star Wars Rebels. The Inquisitor, the Imperial Security Bureau, and Sienar Fleet Systems are story elements in the new animated series, and all these ideas find their origins in roleplaying game material published in the 1980s.

 

To me that doesn't read as "It's all true until we say otherwise".  It reads as, we're pretending none of this exists instead of whatever parts and pieces we decide we like enought o cherry-pick into canon.  If there's some other statement that says "it's all true until we say otherwise" I'd love to see it.

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13 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

 

To me that doesn't read as "It's all true until we say otherwise".  It reads as, we're pretending none of this exists instead of whatever parts and pieces we decide we like enought o cherry-pick into canon.  If there's some other statement that says "it's all true until we say otherwise" I'd love to see it.

Even in that quote, it only refers to the post ROTJ stuff.  There is still a lot of EU that is covered that doesn't fit into that bracket. 

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