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CosmicCastawayA90

The Future of the Expanded Universe (Legends) in X-Wing Miniatures

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For the longest time, I had my sights set on X-Wing Miniatures because of all the Expanded Universe ships that were being added to the game.  I loved seeing X-Wings and Ties as much as the next guy, but being able to grab hold of a model of Kyle Katarn's Moldy Crow, or the E-Wing?  Now that was what really got a hold of my attention.  But now that Disney has separated the EU from their "official" canon, I'm concerned that additional ships with the rich history of the EU will no longer become part of X-Wing Miniatures.  The last several waves have been almost entirely devoted to the new movies and Rebels, the exception being the ARC-170, which as far as I can tell seems to be based on the EU.  

Do you think that FFG will be able to return to some of the EU ships in the future?  Perhaps by rebranding those ships with the same "Legends" banner that every other product of the EU has received?  Or do you think that Disney's work will become the new norm for ships in the game?

I'm curious to see what others think. 

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As long as there are current/near future Star Wars canon material it seems like a slim chance.  

 

That said, what else can really be added aside from the gunboat or vong?  They already hit all the major ones.  The very last Star Wars novel made in legends is full of x wings and e wings still.  

 

 

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I think that strictly Legends material is unlikely. That said, more and more Legends material is being brought back into canon with Rebels and new canon novels and comics. So hopefully, much loved Legends ships(Gunboat, Lando's Ladyluck, etc.) will be reintroduced into canon and then brought into Xwing. Time will tell.

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12 minutes ago, CosmicCastawayA90 said:

  Do you think that FFG will be able to return to some of the EU ships in the future?  Perhaps by rebranding those ships with the same "Legends" banner that every other product of the EU has received?  Or do you think that Disney's work will become the new norm for ships in the game?

I'm curious to see what others think. 

Part of the problem is that there are very few Legends ships left from the appropriate part of the timeline, that are the correct size. For Rebels, there's... The T-Wing? And sure: various X-Wing variants. 

Imperials have several TIE variants to choose from. But... Eh. Honestly I don't think they offer much that we don't already have. 

And for Scum we have more YT freighters than I can shake a stick at. 

So: what is it that you're itching for? What ships from Legends are you impatient to see? What glaring omissions are there? Are you the lone fan of the T-Wing?

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9 minutes ago, JJFDVORAK said:

I think that strictly Legends material is unlikely. That said, more and more Legends material is being brought back into canon with Rebels and new canon novels and comics. 

LIKE THE DEFENDER!!

10 minutes ago, Dosiere said:

That said, what else can really be added aside from the gunboat or vong?

I think the Vong might be too far into the galactic future for this game, but I confess to not having read those books. 

Having said that: I think there's a solid 45% chance the sequel trilogy will be about the Vong. Some of the recent canon novels have pointed in that direction.

 

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13 minutes ago, JJFDVORAK said:

I think that strictly Legends material is unlikely. That said, more and more Legends material is being brought back into canon with Rebels and new canon novels and comics. So hopefully, much loved Legends ships(Gunboat, Lando's Ladyluck, etc.) will be reintroduced into canon and then brought into Xwing. Time will tell.

Yup i think that is exactly the case so lets hope Pablo and Dave in cooperation with FFG will make us happy :D

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The ARC-170 appears in both The Clone Wars animated series and the Rebels animated series (admittedly as wreckage in the latter).  Your best bet for seeing ships from the Legends stuff at this point is if it is re-included in the canon, which has happened a fair bit (most recently the Defender showing up in Rebels).

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2 minutes ago, Major Tom said:

The ARC-170 appears in both The Clone Wars animated series and the Rebels animated series (admittedly as wreckage in the latter).  Your best bet for seeing ships from the Legends stuff at this point is if it is re-included in the canon, which has happened a fair bit (most recently the Defender showing up in Rebels).

Minor addition: the ARC also appears in Revenge of the Sith.

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I think FFG will err still on the side of ships which do what they want for the game - not just because they're "in" canon. The Quad is in the movie for like 60 seconds maybe, but it's a great ship to give scum because it is perfect for more Tractor shenanigans and giving Scum the ability to take the Tech slot which is getting better all the time (So if you're ever like "why is that ship in the game, there's your answer). FFG still publishes a lot of Legends material and even outright original material in their RPG lines and fairly recently in some of their other licensed products - all of which LFL has to approve. Hell, even Star Wars mobile games are recycling/utilizing Legends material - there's an event in Galaxy of Heroes right now based around Darth Nihilus. 

Stuff from Rebels and new movies however offer an advantage in both marketing opportunity and may actually represent new ideas or options for the game which work well for it - and as much as there are still some really quality designs left for some Legends stuff I want to see (TIE Hunter, Gunboat) there are also designs which really don't necessarily do anything for the game because it has limited granularity. 

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I'd be interested to know what ships - beyond some of the obvious ones like, ahem, "GUNBOAT" (and you have to say it just like that) and Lando's floating-casino-bordello - are really left to mine the EU without totally scraping the bottom of the barrel for the sake of it?

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33 minutes ago, Dosiere said:

As long as there are current/near future Star Wars canon material it seems like a slim chance.  

 

That said, what else can really be added aside from the gunboat or vong?  They already hit all the major ones.  The very last Star Wars novel made in legends is full of x wings and e wings still.  

 

 

Spot on for the most part. However given the new movies and what not what is left from those movies without dipping into prequels (which we have with the ARC-170) and the Legends (which came before the Disney buyout)?

  • Rebel Lambda Shuttle (RotJ)
  • Resistance recon shuttle/b-wing fighter (TFA)
  • Those pirate boarding starfighters from TFA
  • Rebel Orange B-wing prototype (Rebels)
  • 1stOrder Storm Trooper dropship (TFA)
  • Maybe a Scum TIE Fighter (although the Sabine one sort of fills that role)

There will be more movies but for each movie FFG will have 2 ships already out so unless a movie brings more than 2 ships there isn't much more for the standard waves which has a minimum of three ships if not 4 for Scum to keep up. Rogue One gave us two ships but those were only for the movie waves. So for other releases Rogue One gave us no new ships.

So with the above statement there was enough for two waves before we ran out, and most of them don't sound surprisingly good. So Legends and Prequels may be tapped more for source material as this game moves along.

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15 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:

LIKE THE DEFENDER!!

I think the Vong might be too far into the galactic future for this game, but I confess to not having read those books. 

Having said that: I think there's a solid 45% chance the sequel trilogy will be about the Vong. Some of the recent canon novels have pointed in that direction.

 

I would be super pissed if the Sequel trilogy ended up having the Vong in it at all, much less as the main antagonist. I am just now finally getting over the, in my opinion, unnecessary wipe of the EU. When they first announced the wipe, they said it freed up JJ to tell a new original story. But then he just rehashed alot of the same.(the New Republic and Empire signing a peace treaty, Han and Leia getting married and having Children, their Son turning to the Dark side and siding with an Empire splinter group, Luke making a new Jedi school that is then attacked by the Empire splinter group, etc, etc, etc.) And I know there are some major differences and also the fact that of course certain ideas were out of necessity going to be used again, but it just felt wrong.  Why piss of your core group of fans, IE, the ones whose love, and let's be honest money, kept Star Wars relevant and worth the 4 billion Disney spent on it. So if they once again dip into the EU and take another part of it, I'll cry foul. Just do what you set out to do a make an original story based of the blatant remake/conglomeration of Episode 4+6 that Episode 7 was. 

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34 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:

Part of the problem is that there are very few Legends ships left from the appropriate part of the timeline, that are the correct size. For Rebels, there's... The T-Wing? And sure: various X-Wing variants. 

Imperials have several TIE variants to choose from. But... Eh. Honestly I don't think they offer much that we don't already have. 

And for Scum we have more YT freighters than I can shake a stick at. 

So: what is it that you're itching for? What ships from Legends are you impatient to see? What glaring omissions are there? Are you the lone fan of the T-Wing?

 
 
 

I'm not impatient to see anything, and I don't believe there are glaring omissions, but I think there's still a few ships here and there that could do with some representation.

For starters, there are plenty more Scum ships that could be incorporated into the game.  The R-41 Starchaser, Cloakshape Fighter, Toscan Fighter, Pursuer-class enforcement ship, and the YT-2000 would be nice additions to see.

The Rebels getting the T-Wing wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, but the Raven's Claw would be nice to see in the hands of the Rebellion.  The class of ship for the Claw wasn't expanded on too much in the EU, so that'd be open for a lot of possibilities.  The YT-2000 could be made for Rebel use as well.  You're right in that there aren't too many other vehicles that are exclusive to the Rebels aside from variants on existing ship chassis.  Most of the other ships that are Rebel exclusive would be speeders, but there hasn't been a focus on ground combat at all with X-Wing Miniatures, so those aren't viable at the moment.

As for the Empire, the Scimitar Bomber, Missile Boat, Assault Gun Boat, various TIE-Avenger variants, Skipray Blastboat, TIE Hunter, and MK VI interceptor would be options.  

Mainly, Scum could see a healthy variety in ships, and Rebels and Empire could get a couple ships to shake things up a bit.

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1 minute ago, Bojanglez said:

I'd be interested to know what ships - beyond some of the obvious ones like, ahem, "GUNBOAT" (and you have to say it just like that) and Lando's floating-casino-bordello - are really left to mine the EU without totally scraping the bottom of the barrel for the sake of it?

Well, there's a number of options which were introduced in SWG, mainly for Scum and Imperials which could actually be different. The TIE/Hunter, of course. The T-Wing isn't super impressive, but something on a cost scale similar to the Z-95 but with torpedoes might be different at least. You want to do something really weird with the upgrade bar you could include the H-Wing. Preybird fighters for Scum were mentioned in some classic things - and could offer a unique ability to fire missiles behind, maybe. Want to go nuts, FFG made up the Tallanx-class Stealth Fighter for one of their Age of Rebellion sourcebooks, we could have rebels get a try on stealthed ships (not necessarily a cloak). 

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6 minutes ago, JJFDVORAK said:

I would be super pissed if the Sequel trilogy ended up having the Vong in it at all, much less as the main antagonist. I am just now finally getting over the, in my opinion, unnecessary wipe of the EU. When they first announced the wipe, they said it freed up JJ to tell a new original story. But then he just rehashed alot of the same.(the New Republic and Empire signing a peace treaty, Han and Leia getting married and having Children, their Son turning to the Dark side and siding with an Empire splinter group, Luke making a new Jedi school that is then attacked by the Empire splinter group, etc, etc, etc.) And I know there are some major differences and also the fact that of course certain ideas were out of necessity going to be used again, but it just felt wrong.  Why piss of your core group of fans, IE, the ones whose love, and let's be honest money, kept Star Wars relevant and worth the 4 billion Disney spent on it. So if they once again dip into the EU and take another part of it, I'll cry foul. Just do what you set out to do a make an original story based of the blatant remake/conglomeration of Episode 4+6 that Episode 7 was. 

 

I agree.  This is the problem I have with having to wait for Disney to re-incorporate the EU into their cannon.  They simply shouldn't be re-incorporating anything in the first place.  If they were going to wipe out the EU, then that should have been the end of it.  Yet they rip from the EU consistently.  Why then, did they decide to scrap the EU in the first place, if they aren't original enough to come up with their own ideas?

This is why I'd like to see some more EU ships in the game, even if there are only a few of them left that'd be noticeable for the Galactic Civil War era.  I want to be able to see a more complete collection of the EU lore in the game, and I think there'd be a decent amount of ships that have a purpose within the game mechanics as well.

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59 minutes ago, JJFDVORAK said:

I think that strictly Legends material is unlikely. That said, more and more Legends material is being brought back into canon with Rebels and new canon novels and comics. So hopefully, much loved Legends ships(Gunboat, Lando's Ladyluck, etc.) will be reintroduced into canon and then brought into Xwing. Time will tell.

This. A thousand times this. We've seen a beginning of this trend, and I hope it continues. Whenever FFG just wants to print money, they can release the gunboat. 

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3 minutes ago, CosmicCastawayA90 said:

I agree.  This is the problem I have with having to wait for Disney to re-incorporate the EU into their cannon.  They simply shouldn't be re-incorporating anything in the first place.  If they were going to wipe out the EU, then that should have been the end of it.  Yet they rip from the EU consistently.  Why then, did they decide to scrap the EU in the first place, if they aren't original enough to come up with their own ideas?

This^ 

I feel the exact same way. And while I love seeing old EU designs making their way into the new canon, it almost feels like a slap in the face to the stories I grew up reading.

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30 minutes ago, Bojanglez said:

I'd be interested to know what ships - beyond some of the obvious ones like, ahem, "GUNBOAT" (and you have to say it just like that) and Lando's floating-casino-bordello - are really left to mine the EU without totally scraping the bottom of the barrel for the sake of it?

Lando's ship - the SoroSuub Luxury Yacht 3000 - is actually canon.  It's appeared in both The Clone Wars and Rebels.  Hondo Ohnaka owns one called the "Fortune And Glory".

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Well, I disagree with the sentiment of some. 

The EU was saturated in crappy, over the top, established lore violating, Mary Sue, junk. If I'm Disney, I'd have done the same. 

Cancel it all. Then cherry pick what you like. Otherwise you spend thousands of hours sifting through so much, garbage, paralyzing your creative process, and everyone's going to get angry everytime something old is retconned. 

Edited by Lobokai

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5 minutes ago, JJFDVORAK said:

This^ 

I feel the exact same way. And while I love seeing old EU designs making their way into the new canon, it almost feels like a slap in the face to the stories I grew up reading.

 

I'd say, replace "almost" with "is" and you're exactly right.  Disney really just wanted an excuse to re-write Star Wars history so that they could rake in cash by selling the new movies on the faces of the original cast.  It's degrading to fans, writers, and the original cast.  

The bright side is that there isn't an enormous amount of EU ships that can be shoe-horned into Disney's canon, and those who love the EU like we do probably just want an excuse to see those ships in X-Wing Miniatures by this point. Miniatures and The Old Republic MMO are the only sources of EU material that have been grandfathered in by Disney, and at least for me, those are the last new sources of lore I'll look to as being true Star Wars stories.  

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3 minutes ago, Lobokai said:

Well, I disagree with the sentiment of some. 

The EU was saturated in crappy, over the top, established lore violating, Mary Sue, junk. If I'm Disney, I'd have done the same. 

Cancel it all. Then cherry pick what you like. Otherwise you spend thousands of hours sifting through so much, garbage, paralyzing your creative process, and everyone's going to get angry everytime something old is retconned. 

 

So the "creative" process means ripping off the exact same story from the first Star Wars movie?  If Disney really wanted room to be creative, then fine, I would have loved to see some original ideas, but wiping out a whole culture and then copying and pasting the parts you like isn't creative, it's disrespectful.  And they have plenty of time to look at the expanded universe to rip from it anyways, so how much time are they really saving?  It's called Wookiepedia; I can literally write my own story with respect to the lore by looking up a couple pages here and there to make sure I don't have any blatant errors.  The thing about Star Wars was that it provided limitless room for story-telling.  Want to tell the story of a shifty smuggler trying to make ends meet in the seedy alleys of Nar-Shadaa?  You can do that.  Want to tell the story of a Jedi who survived Order-66 and has been living out his life in peace, until a regiment of Storm-Troopers blast through the town he's become a part of?  You can do that too.

The only reason Disney chucked out the EU was to profit from the original cast members.  They could have easily gone to the Old Republic Era, and really fleshed that time period out.

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1 hour ago, Major Tom said:

The ARC-170 appears in both The Clone Wars animated series and the Rebels animated series (admittedly as wreckage in the latter).  Your best bet for seeing ships from the Legends stuff at this point is if it is re-included in the canon, which has happened a fair bit (most recently the Defender showing up in Rebels).

They draw the ARC from a comic that is cannon not really the show otherwise republic gunships would be a thing.

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3 minutes ago, CosmicCastawayA90 said:

So the "creative" process means ripping off the exact same story from the first Star Wars movie?  If Disney really wanted room to be creative, then fine, I would have loved to see some original ideas, but wiping out a whole culture and then copying and pasting the parts you like isn't creative, it's disrespectful.  And they have plenty of time to look at the expanded universe to rip from it anyways, so how much time are they really saving?  It's called Wookiepedia; I can literally write my own story with respect to the lore by looking up a couple pages here and there to make sure I don't have any blatant errors.  The thing about Star Wars was that it provided limitless room for story-telling.  Want to tell the story of a shifty smuggler trying to make ends meet in the seedy alleys of Nar-Shadaa?  You can do that.  Want to tell the story of a Jedi who survived Order-66 and has been living out his life in peace, until a regiment of Storm-Troopers blast through the town he's become a part of?  You can do that too.

The only reason Disney chucked out the EU was to profit from the original cast members.  They could have easily gone to the Old Republic Era, and really fleshed that time period out.

Unfortunately although the EU had some high points there was a lot of crap to dig through to find the good stuff.

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12 minutes ago, CosmicCastawayA90 said:

I'd say, replace "almost" with "is" and you're exactly right.  Disney really just wanted an excuse to re-write Star Wars history so that they could rake in cash by selling the new movies on the faces of the original cast.  It's degrading to fans, writers, and the original cast.  

Exactly. They just wanted Harrison Ford, Mark Hamil, and Carrie Fisher to attract new audiences and milk the Star Wars cash cow. The funny thing is they could have had almost the exact same story as TFA without wiping most of the EU. Just wipe the stories post Jacen Solo turning evil and it works (mostly) Then just cast a few more characters (Jaina, etc) and move the story forward. The First Order could have been the Galactic Alliance and go from there. Rework the opening crawl to fill in the blanks,(like it had to anyway) and your golden. None of the true Star Wars fans would have been pissed and none of the "movie only" fan would have even know.  Disney gets their billions and EU fans would be happy and willing to spend more money. They could have also did a "see what happened before TFA" and rereleased all those Best sellers of the old EU.(obviously reprinted with slight changes to fix continuity errors) Boom, win-win. But alas, it was not meant to be.

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