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LadySkywalker

Armour Max. Agility and it's application

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So this came up in a game I'm currently in. I'd like to know what common opinion - or, better yet, an official ruling - is on this.

According to the rulebook, heavier armours have a maximum Agility value that is allowed whilst wearing it. To me, this suggests that your characteristic defaults to that value (if your natural value was higher), but that things like modifiers and skill bonuses, etc would still apply atop it; to another, this suggests that the listed value is the absolute maximum that any Agility/Agility-based Skill test can have, regardless of modifiers, skill bonuses, etc.

What is the common ruling on this? Or an official one? Does an Agility Max of 40 mean that you're only ever able to roll against a maximum value of 40, regardless of skill or circumstance, or does it simply mean that your base characteristic is limited, and modifiers are applied to that value instead of your normal one?

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I am not aware of an official ruling but since the caps are rather high in my opinion it should be the maximal value including bonuses. For example if your character has Ag 50 and Dodge +20 (rather extreme I know) and is wearing armor with maximum Agility 40, she/he should dodge against 40 rather than 60.

Edited by eltom13

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On a side note: I'm not sure if the maximum Agility of an armor should also affect the roll for the psychic power Foreboding (DH2 203). Even with a sixth sense it is still harder to move in an encumbering armor ...

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I think the ruling in the book is pretty explicit: "the maximum value a character wearing this armour can count their Agility".

Agility is the Characteristic alone; Skills are a separate thing that during Tests are added on top of this. If it were otherwise, such as with eltom13's example, a Skill like Dodge would be negated entirely, and I can't believe that a character trained in Dodging attacks should have absolutely zero advantage over a character who doesn't know anything about it, just because armour pushes their Agility Characteristic to the same value.

I agree that the caps are rather high, but in my opinion the solution here would be to houserule the caps rather than the application of the rule.

Edited by Lynata

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On a side note > I think all the Max AGL values listed should be reduced by -10%

I dont kno anyone who can backflip, tightrope walk, sneak around, etc - in armor - military guys can attest to > and most only wear a Kevlar vest - not counting more S.W.A.T.-esk kit like "full armor"...

Being that this had a corporate hand in it > I'm willing to bet the original concept therein was meant for Astartes in their Power Armor > they got that black carapace bionic chest that patches directly into the suit - that's very different that armor you don't get to "plug into" > corporate aspect being flush **** out as soon and portable as possible including cutting corners (i.e. not playing attention to detail)

Think about what the numbers mean > base 20 + 2D10 per stat (so is 40 "normal" human upper limit like say an Olympic Athlete?!)

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I don't think the mechanic was meant for Space Marines. If so, they would have added it to the Deathwatch game rather than Dark Heresy -- and looking at Deathwatch, Marines only get mechanics that help rather than limit them, probably in line with that game's more heroic/cinematic narrative and gameplay focus.

And, though this is probably a question of setting interpretation, it should be noted that you can learn to better control powered armour and use it to augment your own movement, rather than it just providing additional armour protection, though this is probably a rather lengthy process. For example, codex fluff mentions Sororitas Seraphim learning special martial arts techniques to engage in close combat, which would be difficult if all power armour was supremely encumbering. The advantage the Black Carapace gives is that Marines don't require much in the way of training, for donning the armour still lets them feel as if they were completely naked -- although realistically, the armour's bulk should still have a somewhat limiting effect, of course.

By the way, did DH2 ever officially add "real" power armour? The core rulebook only has the Light version, and I can't seem to find a Heavy one in one of the supplements ...

3 hours ago, MorbidDon said:

Think about what the numbers mean > base 20 + 2D10 per stat (so is 40 "normal" human upper limit like say an Olympic Athlete?!)

Those are starting values, not upper limits. By adding the maximum of five Characteristic Advances, you could go up to 65. I'm not sure how much Advances an Olympic athlete should have, but they certainly wouldn't start out fresh but already have some experience under their belt as a result of their career so far.

Either way, I agree that the Max values are too high and that simply dropping them by 10 sounds like a nice and easy solution.

On a sidenote, since we were just talking about human limits .. once I also suggested lowering Characteristic Advances from +5 to +3 in order to minimize the gap between fresh and experienced characters. Not only would it be more realistic, it'd also allow for a better inclusion of post-human creatures such as Space Marines on the same scale without the need to utilize weird and unreliable modifiers such as Unnatural Traits. Different topic, though, and a more extensive rework of the system... :D

Edited by Lynata

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12 hours ago, MorbidDon said:

Think about what the numbers mean > base 20 + 2D10 per stat (so is 40 "normal" human upper limit like say an Olympic Athlete?!)

Olympic athlete will have 20 + 2d10 + 25 from characteristic advances, I think.

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Sorry I can't see a human peak Athlete at say 65 STR > as an example...

Back in the day comics had a system I recall whereby they broke down Human Limits (like peak human Batman), vs. abhumans (captain america), vs. superhumans (the hulk)...

65 to me is Captain America or Planet > LMFAO

 

 

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