Facts (or Read Before Posting)

[Buhallin 4,563]

I'm not sure many people in this thread really know the definition of "fact".

[Hawkman2000 352]

22 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

Right, you don't know why they would make unsound business decisions that would only benefit TC, but despite those gaps in knowledge it still seems reasonable to you because it's the only way that you think TC could accomplish such a feat. The reality is that they can - and probably did - just assemble their sets from boxes specifically set aside for singles, just like everyone else. The only difference is that they did it in larger numbers because they're the only e-tailer with experience in selling FFG goods through the secondary market. 

Really? TC is the only retailer with experience selling FFG products on the secondary? I can't follow you on this one, WAAAGH. 

[WonderWAAAGH 7,153]

That I know of. Who else has been selling individual X-Wing upgrade cards or broken down IA core sets for the past 3-4 years?

[Stone37 3,353]

"Fact"

 

[Mep 2,291]

51 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

That I know of. Who else has been selling individual X-Wing upgrade cards or broken down IA core sets for the past 3-4 years?

Umm, a bunch of people on ebay. There are several in fact that buy IA core sets, paint them up and then sell them.

TC and FFG clearly have a special relationship. If that means they get to buy straight from FFG or what, who knows.

The reason behind the SS was because a lot of people were very upset with FFG making a CCG. The SS were to help the LCG people shallow this whole CCG thing. The math is however a bit funny, cause as of right now those cards on the secondary market are worth much more than $300. To buy a bunch of boxes, take 3 boxes worth of cards and put them together in a SS would cost less than $300. What would be TC's price on a box? $60-$70 or so? Times 3, plus another $30 in labor, then pay the rent, light bill etc., they may pocket $50 a set. Zack isn't exactly shopping for the hottest mail order brides right now. Now if he took all those boxes and ebayed them for $180 instead, maybe he is getting half what Waagh is claiming he gets.

[WonderWAAAGH 7,153]

eBay doesn't qualify as an e-tailer, but I think you know that. TC is the only legitimate, consistent business to harness FFG products on the secondary market. The point stands again. 

Honestly, at a certain point it boils down to A + ??? = C, with C being whatever possible explanation seems the most reasonable to you guys, but you're just kind of shrugging your shoulders when it comes to the production aspect. "I don't know how they do it, I'm just assuming they are" is a poor rationale for a process that's definitely going to cost someone time and money.

As for what I'm claiming, I'm just using the numbers that other people have been throwing around. If you have something more precise to share with me then I'd be happy to use that instead. 

Edited February 24, 2017 by WonderWAAAGH

[soviet prince 105]

[Keigi 24]

For a post about "facts" there are a lot of assumptions.  Email TC and ask if they had a special source for SS from FFG. 

Edited February 24, 2017 by Keigi

[Hawkman2000 352]

The point of this topic was to compile common opinions expressed on this board prior as a way to alleviate any new posts about the same issue. In the end, even after wading through all these previous topics myself, I see that I'm no closer to identifying a consensus on those ideas.

[Keigi 24]

2 minutes ago, Hawkman2000 said:

The point of this topic was to compile common opinions expressed on this board prior as a way to alleviate any new posts about the same issue. In the end, even after wading through all these previous topics myself, I see that I'm no closer to identifying a consensus on those ideas.

Then don't post them as Facts.

[Hawkman2000 352]

1 hour ago, Keigi said:

Then don't post them as Facts.

Some of the concepts are factual, like it or not. 

[Keigi 24]

1 hour ago, Hawkman2000 said:

Some of the concepts are factual, like it or not. 

Lol, it's not about liking or not, It's about the assumptions in them. Your facts are anecdotal at best, and no hard sources. 

I appuald you for the collection, and the hope of pushing the discussion away from the supply issues.

[Hawkman2000 352]

22 minutes ago, Keigi said:

Lol, it's not about liking or not, It's about the assumptions in them. Your facts are anecdotal at best, and no hard sources. 

I appuald you for the collection, and the hope of pushing the discussion away from the supply issues.

Ugh... there are no hard sources in any of these discussions, only very educated guesses which are better than the slander being cast by some. The majority of people indicated similar ideas, so for the intent and purposes of not knowing, these are factual in that regard. 

 

[Keigi 24]

25 minutes ago, Hawkman2000 said:

Ugh... there are no hard sources in any of these discussions, only very educated guesses which are better than the slander being cast by some. The majority of people indicated similar ideas, so for the intent and purposes of not knowing, these are factual in that regard. 

 

These are not theories or facts. These are opinions, guesses, assumptions, and thoughts.

All of these are up for discussion. Discussion is great.  That's what we are here for.

We, as a whole, already have issues with critical thinking and discerning fact from fiction.  Please, learn to tell what is a fact, and what is not.

I don't care if the world agrees with what you said. If I can't verify your statements they are not facts.  

Edited February 24, 2017 by Keigi

[Buhallin 4,563]

1 hour ago, Hawkman2000 said:

Ugh... there are no hard sources in any of these discussions, only very educated guesses which are better than the slander being cast by some. The majority of people indicated similar ideas, so for the intent and purposes of not knowing, these are factual in that regard. 

You know, I hear Kellyanne Conway is on her way out - you'd have a good shot at replacing her!

[Hawkman2000 352]

3 minutes ago, Buhallin said:

You know, I hear Kellyanne Conway is on her way out - you'd have a good shot at replacing her!

Wow, that's mature...

[Buhallin 4,563]

Just now, Hawkman2000 said:

Wow, that's mature...

You're the one redefining what "facts" are.  Seems very much in the same vein to me.

"Mature" would be recognizing what is fact, and what is opinion, and stating each as each.  "We don't know but people think it so that makes it a fact" is pure newspeak.

[Hawkman2000 352]

57 minutes ago, Buhallin said:

You're the one redefining what "facts" are.  Seems very much in the same vein to me.

"Mature" would be recognizing what is fact, and what is opinion, and stating each as each.  "We don't know but people think it so that makes it a fact" is pure newspeak.

What's funny is that some of the things I reference even state that we don't know. Apparently you're missing that part and getting hung up. But that's cool, because when I make a post that you don't like, it's totally acceptable to throw insults. That's why you're not mature. 

Edited February 24, 2017 by Hawkman2000

[Stone37 3,353]

On 2/23/2017 at 11:30 AM, Hawkman2000 said:

Here are some facts. 

Fact - FFG did not product sufficient quantities of product to satisfy everyone. To what percentage that means is debateable. Should they have made enough product so that everyone wanting to play the game could have two Vaders? Or should there be alittle "wanting" left to keep people in the hunt. As a Star Wars product, one has to assume success, but online and physical store preorders seemed to be on the slim side, so FFG was left with a tough desicion on how much to produce. Regardless, no one here knows how many units FFG produced and thus there's no way of knowing how far off the mark FFG was in their assessments. 

Fact - Team Covenent Saga Sets did not impact booster box sales. Given there are 17 Legendary cards and 6 Legendaries appear in a given booster box, TC would have had to open 3 booster boxes per complete Saga Set to sell. And that's assuming they pull all the Legendaries they need, which is mathematically unlikely in any frequent pattern. It is more likely that TC acquired the Saga Sets from FFG directly. 

Fact - FFG has a track record of missing scheduled product release dates. This is true, but has no really bearing on Destiny. FFG has gone on to produce multiple expansions for a number of games that had rocky starts, like X-Wing. To think another great Star Wars product like Destiny will suffer the same fate due to a rocky start seems to contradict previous successful data. 

Fact - FFG has elected not to engage the player base regarding any product supply issues on this board or elsewhere. Whether that's due to a rewuest from Asmodee or Disney remains to be seen. It could even just be an internal policy within FFG. In business, it's generally advantageous not to report any shortages or issues and to maintain a semblance of "everything's fine." Is that right? Not really, as people would prefer to have the opposite - more information. But that is the situation that players are in - an effective product shortage blackout of information. 

Fact - SoR is on the way. Given preorder sell-outs and the productive secondary market, the game appears to have legs. Even if additional supplies of Awakenings never happen (which is highly unlikely), there seems to be enough sales momentum to carry this game till the end of the year at least. 

Fact - Areas are seeing a general lack of interest and event attendance because of the lack of product. If players cannot receive the product they require to stay competitive in the tournament scene, they will lose interest and leave the game. Again, this references a rocky start and will surely change as more product is released. For lack of better terminology, we can only go up. 

Fact - The current rule set is very ambiguous and is leading to some varied interpretations to individual rules. This will become more problematic as more varied product is released. The most common solution that FFG generally offers is updated errata and this game will hopefully see an even more updated errata by the time SoR drops. 

Fact - Pies are equal to Cakes as a food. 

Fact - Bears, Beets, Battlestar Galactica. 

Everything that is not a fact has been crossed out.  Even what is left uncrossed out is subject to vague language with no real quantifiers. 

"Personal observation and conjecture" is a term more fitting than the word "Fact" in this post.

[Mep 2,291]

I have to say that whole pie is equal to cake is completely wrong. Here is the math.

Pie + Cake = Piecake

Therefore

Pie = Piecake - Cake

This is a mathematical fact!

[Buhallin 4,563]

1 hour ago, Hawkman2000 said:

What's funny is that some of the things I reference even state that we don't know. Apparently you're missing that part and getting hung up. But that's cool, because when I make a post that you don't like, it's totally acceptable to throw insults. That's why you're not mature. 

Stating that your facts aren't facts doesn't make it correct for you to claim them as facts.  They are, in fact, not facts.  You can accept that, acknowledge that your entire premise is rather fatally flawed, and you overstated your case in an incredibly misleading way.  Or, you know, you can do what you're doing now and pout in a corner about how mean people are.

I also didn't really throw insults.  I made a comparison to another well-known figure who is also known for abusing the concept of a fact, redefining opinions and calling them facts.  Just like you did.  If you choose to take that as an insult, well, I can see why but it doesn't make the comparison wrong.  You could always acknowledge that you really shouldn't have used the term "fact" anywhere in your pile of conjecture and opinion, get over your grandstanding and move on.  But I'm not going to hold my breath on that one

 

[Hawkman2000 352]

You're obviously missing the point and trolling. And yes making a comparison like that is insulting, which is why you passively aggressively made it. 

[Strmtrpr81 1]

There is money to be made on TC doing the Saga Sets if they were opening boxes. Coming from someone who owns a singles site for another game and from knowing the TC guys, They know what they are doing. I can not tap in on any special arrangement that may or may not be in place between FFG and TC. But from a business stand point, TC is doing the right thing here. I know the FFG model has always been LCG format, which is great. But I personally like the idea of a CCG for them, and for the people who are upset about a CCG format, where it has the stigma of "Pay to play" the simple thing is to not play. Nobody is forcing you to do so. 

I wish their was more of a supply, But for a CCG, it is healthy for the game to have a secondary market where peoples cards have a value. who doesnt like opening a 3 dollar pack and pulling a card that is worth 40 dollars? The LCG's have no secondary Market. Also, having a "Singles Site" for destiny is a great thing. I hope more pop up once more product gets released. 

Anyway, Thats just my two cents. Destiny is a fantastic game. Do I wish FFG Had a much bigger supply? Yes. Do I think FFG should address the situation and say something to the community? Yes. But I am excited for the next set, I am excited for the reprint of set 1 so people can get access to cards, get new players into the game and build up the community. 

 

Lets just hope that something is announced soon and that the second set does not have this much of a supply issue. 

 

-Me

[WonderWAAAGH 7,153]

Yeah, it seems counterproductive in the extreme to risk bringing a CCG to market only to turn around and say "well, we're sorta gonna do an LCG thing, but it's $300 for a set and only so many people can get one." FFG needs all the good will they can muster right now, and undermining their own production model isn't the best way to go about accomplishing that. 

[Buhallin 4,563]

1 hour ago, Hawkman2000 said:

You're obviously missing the point and trolling. And yes making a comparison like that is insulting, which is why you passively aggressively made it. 

So just to make sure...

You post a bunch of stuff that doesn't even qualify as consensus opinion - it's pretty much just your own personal opinion and unfounded speculation.  You declare it as fact throughout, loudly and pretentiously.  When you get called on that you say that it is factual because a majority of people share that opinion (which is itself a completely baseless claim).

But I'm the one trolling?  Yeah, sure.