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Spice Junkee

HWK-290. A mistake? Or just that good?

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http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/3479/

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/3624/

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/3350/

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/1481/

Above this  line are sil 3, below are sil 4

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/3477/

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/1831/

http://swrpg.viluppo.net/transportation/starships/3482/

Note the viluppo is out of date it doesn't have the Aka'jor or kst-100 for starters, the firespray ought to be in the sil 4 category of comparable ships... there are more sil4 comparable ships but... I was mostly restricting the list to sil 3's. 

 

Edited by EliasWindrider

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14 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

However the conversation ought to now be about the kst-100, and whether there are enough similar ships hwk-290, Aka'jor (maybe others but they don't instantly spring to mind) to not make it an anomaly/outlier.

What is the KST-100 and where is it found?

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9 hours ago, Dakkar98 said:

What is the KST-100 and where is it found?

It's similar to the HWK-290, only with double the passengers, better thresholds, a built-in weapon, and a slightly slower hyperdrive (but it does have a backup, which the HWK seems to lack).

Also, it is described as somehow having separate state rooms for each of the passengers in a silhouette 3 ship (as I recall, the U-Wing from Rogue 1 was listed as Sil 4 in the same book)...

 

Honestly, I think the range of silhouettes needed to be a little larger so they could clearly distinguish between star fighters and gunboats / executive freighters (Move most of the 4+ ships up one silhouette, keep the fighters at Sil 3, move a lot of the gunboats and freighters from 3 to 4, and then rewrite all the rules impacted by these changes).

 

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10 hours ago, Dakkar98 said:

What is the KST-100 and where is it found?

It's in dawn of rebellion 

55 minutes ago, Ominovin said:

It's similar to the HWK-290, only with double the passengers, better thresholds, a built-in weapon, and a slightly slower hyperdrive (but it does have a backup, which the HWK seems to lack).

Also, it is described as somehow having separate state rooms for each of the passengers in a silhouette 3 ship (as I recall, the U-Wing from Rogue 1 was listed as Sil 4 in the same book)...

 

Honestly, I think the range of silhouettes needed to be a little larger so they could clearly distinguish between star fighters and gunboats / executive freighters (Move most of the 4+ ships up one silhouette, keep the fighters at Sil 3, move a lot of the gunboats and freighters from 3 to 4, and then rewrite all the rules impacted by these changes).

 

Also the kst-100 is primarily a saucer rather than a pipe/rectangular shape (i.e. its  volume is clearly bigger than the hawk-290) it has 5 fewer enc if I recall correctly and it costs 120K credits instead of the hwk-290's 70K and if I recall correctly it has 1 fewer hp to make up for coming stock with a weapon (twin light laser cannons, 5 damage linked 1, so not spectacular) .  With the 50K difference in credits to use to mod the hwk-290 the hwk-290 would be the superior ship after mods, but before mods (i.e. as an eote legal starting ship) the kst-100 is slightly better on the whole (but it costs 50K more so...).  Apart from the threshold"s the kst-100 is a combination of not spectacular or terrible features but as a total package it is is quite good because it doesn't have any serious deficiencies, and it's base speed is 4 which is my minimum requirement so I can add a high output ion turbine and get it to speed 5 (same as a tie fighter).

I completely agree about the insertion of the extra silhouette, some small sil 4's should stay sil 4, and some small sil 5's like the YZ-775 in dangerous covenants and the vcx-100 (ghost) should stay sil 5, the range of ship sizes in the sil 5 category is a little too big for exponential scaling.  So multiple issues should be fixed at the same time. With the proper splitting of sil 3-5 into sils 3-6, few other rules would have to change (barrel  roll  would go up to sil 4, maybe add a speed 4 or greater dependency to it). Yt series would probably stay sil 4, ghtroc and anything bigger would go to sil 5, cargo and passengers would be the numbers to redivide silhouettes 3-5 by.   the sil3 vs 4 split would probably at (enc >=25 or crew +passengers >=5)

2 hours ago, Jareth Valar said:

Oh no, don't get Elias started taking about his baby again. 😋

Too late😁

Edited by EliasWindrider

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On 10/24/2019 at 5:44 AM, penpenpen said:

While it is a light freighter, the template is probably meant for Sil 4 ships and should probably be tweaked if applied to the 290, particularly since you normally can't fit quads on a Sil 3 ship without oversized weapon mounts. And if your fitting turrets large enough to fit an entire person on ship as small as a 290, I'd definetely feel that the oversized weapon mount attachment would be appropriate.

 

Using the templates unmodified pushes the 290 from "top tier" to "outright disgusting", particularly if you also let it mount attachments in addition to the paramilitary conversion.

Yes the template was meant for light freighters but they were expecting all light freighters to be at least Sil 4.  So my Gm tweeked it to where it only has 1 turret.  The specifics hasnt been set in stone yet but looks like it will be a manned turret for sure.

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8 hours ago, Metalghost said:

Yes the template was meant for light freighters but they were expecting all light freighters to be at least Sil 4.  So my Gm tweeked it to where it only has 1 turret.  The specifics hasnt been set in stone yet but looks like it will be a manned turret for sure.

Again, the templates are not intended for Player use:  They are for GM's to quickly generate an opponent on the fly using non-combat vehicles as a base.

Quote

If the PCs want to convert a civilian vehicle to paramilitary use, they can do so using attachments and modding those attachments. However, sometimes Game Masters don't have the time to build paramilitary conversions of existing vehicles from the ground up. These quick conversion templates allow the Game Master to adapt an existing craft's game characteristics quickly during play.

Players are supposed to use the Hard Points / Attachments / Mod combination to customize their ships...

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15 hours ago, Metalghost said:

Yes the template was meant for light freighters but they were expecting all light freighters to be at least Sil 4.  So my Gm tweeked it to where it only has 1 turret.  The specifics hasnt been set in stone yet but looks like it will be a manned turret for sure.

DC page 71.  "If the PCs want to convert a civilian vehicle to paramilitary use, they can do so using attachments and modding those attachments. However, sometimes Game Masters don't have the time to build paramilitary conversions of existing vehicles from the ground up. These quick conversion templates allow the Game Master to adapt an existing craft's game characteristics quickly during play."

and

"the GM should note that applying any of these templates fill up all of the vehicle's hard points, barring any other attachments. If the vehicle already has attachments, or has zero hard points, then the GM should consider not applying these quick conversion templates."

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