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Darth Meanie

Would You Have Started This Game If It Was Not Star Wars

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We have evidence on this that the answer is NO.

Look at the relative duds that were Star Trek: Attack Wing and D&D: Attack Wing.  They use the same flightpath system, licensed from FFG, and almost the same rules and mechanics, but both games are already effectively dead despite being younger than X-Wing.  Wings of Glory was very similar as well, and FFG basically just lifted the flightpath system from WoG's card system, which to be fair did streamline it quite a bit.  That game was/is well-loved, but only by a small and passionate group of (typically historical wargamer) players.

 

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12 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

We have evidence on this that the answer is NO.

Look at the relative duds that were Star Trek: Attack Wing and D&D: Attack Wing.  They use the same flightpath system, licensed from FFG, and almost the same rules and mechanics, but both games are already effectively dead despite being younger than X-Wing.  Wings of Glory was very similar as well, and FFG basically just lifted the flightpath system from WoG's card system, which to be fair did streamline it quite a bit.  That game was/is well-loved, but only by a small and passionate group of (typically historical wargamer) players.

 

This is exactly what I was going to post.   Did any of those saying "Yes" even try out any of those games, especially Wings of Glory since it wasn't concurrent but was a predecessor?

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16 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Look at the relative duds that were Star Trek: Attack Wing and D&D: Attack Wing.

The reasons those games aren't doing well has nothing to the mechanics and everything to do with how Wizkids do things.  They had bad models with bad paint and no sense of scale.  Then they did things like allowing pilots to be moved from ship to ship or prize items like special dice.  That and releasing what 750 ships a month or something...

I think for most people the fact that it's Star Wars is what got them to look at the game, but I don't think many people keep playing it because of Star Wars.  There's been plenty of bad Star Wars games and they've failed.

Why people started playing doesn't really matter nearly as much as why they keep playing.

So a much better question is "Do you keep playing X-Wing because it's Star Wars?"

Edited by VanorDM

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Maybe leaning to probably not. While I am generally interested in various dogfighting games the likelihood of finding opponents for them largely kept me away. So this license being popular and bringing the increased likelihood of folks to play with is what did it. 

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6 minutes ago, VanorDM said:

The reasons those games aren't doing well has nothing to the mechanics and everything to do with how Wizkids do things.  They had bad models with bad paint and no sense of scale.  Then they did things like allowing pilots to be moved from ship to ship or prize items like special dice.  That and releasing what 750 ships a month or something...

I think for most people the fact that it's Star Wars is what got them to look at the game, but I don't think many people keep playing it because of Star Wars.  There's been plenty of bad Star Wars games and they've failed.

Why people started playing doesn't really matter nearly as much as why they keep playing.

So a much better question is "Do you keep playing X-Wing because it's Star Wars?"


True, WizKids is the worst, for lots of reasons.  Wings of Glory, though, is very similar and was well managed.

Still, what kills off most exapnsion-based Star Wars games of the modern era (e.g. WEG's miniature game, Decipher's CCG, WotC's SWM) is that the company producing it loses the license to continue producing the product lines.  People tend to keep playing Star Wars games, even when they are bad, because either (1) it's Star Wars or (2) they've already invested too much in the game to walk away.  At some point FFG will lose the Star Wars license, just like WEG, Decipher, and WotC before them.  In the case of Decipher and WotC, it was a sudden announcement (because the company wants to put out product as long as possible, but knows many people will not buy that last set or two if they know the game is losing support). I remember with WotC they literally said something like "Oh hey, thanks everybody, but that last set was the final set, and we no longer have the Star Wars license, so all product and inventory will be liquidated from our possession next month," and then Targets and such were full of cheap discount boosters for a little while.

Now, FFG may retain the Star Wars license for fifty years.  Or they may lose it within the next few years.  We dunno.  And they're the first games company that has had to work with The Mouse, so who knows if that bodes better or worse for license retention.  But WEG, Decipher, and WotC all seemed to have the license for around 8ish years, if memory serves.

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Not a chance.

I stared at the models at Barnes and Noble and thought they looked cool because I've always loved starfighters. I didn't buy any for a long time because I didn't think I would ever actually play the game. Eventually I bought a B-wing and the core set to go with it (if I have the cool model I might as well be able to play the game). It turns out I like the game a lot. But if it weren't Star Wars I wouldn't have even considered playing, even knowing how much fun it is.

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Well, Decipher lost due to Lucas wanting to support the new Hasbro subsidiary, as well as the embezzling that happened. WOTC just gave up on everything except Magic and D&D, likely thanks to the massive hit that Dreamblade caused them to take. Anyway, we know the license was renewed recently, so we have another 3-4 years to worry about it. 

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46 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

We have evidence on this that the answer is NO.

Look at the relative duds that were Star Trek: Attack Wing and D&D: Attack Wing.  They use the same flightpath system, licensed from FFG, and almost the same rules and mechanics, but both games are already effectively dead despite being younger than X-Wing.  Wings of Glory was very similar as well, and FFG basically just lifted the flightpath system from WoG's card system, which to be fair did streamline it quite a bit.  That game was/is well-loved, but only by a small and passionate group of (typically historical wargamer) players.

37 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Wow, that's some powerful math right there.  I'm sure your p-value for that data set is worthy of even the most stringent journals.

I'll say I'm here for the gameplay over the fluff, just so that makes it 50/50. 

Dude, you make fun of me in the other thread, an back me up here.  I'm seriously conflicted. :(

 

Edited by Darth Meanie

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No. 

The only miniatures game I played before x wing was Heroscape, and that was from roughly 2005-2008. I picked up x wing from some friends who introduced it to me because they also loved Star Wars. About the only reason I kept buying into it and playing it, aside from it being fun and well-made, was the fact that it was Star Wars.

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9 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

Well, Decipher lost due to Lucas wanting to support the new Hasbro subsidiary, as well as the embezzling that happened. WOTC just gave up on everything except Magic and D&D, likely thanks to the massive hit that Dreamblade caused them to take. Anyway, we know the license was renewed recently, so we have another 3-4 years to worry about it. 

 

3 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Dude, you make fun of me in the other thread, an back me up here.  I'm seriously conflicted. :(

 


In the general sense, I think it's true that most people wouldn't get into the game if it weren't Star Wars (e.g., few X-Wingers were rushing out to buy Wings of Glory stuff).

In the particular sense, as a player wanting to stay with the game, I would prefer for gameplay to be the focus over fluff.

I don't see these as mutually exclusive positions.

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Depends.

If it was the exact thing it is now (ship rules and numbers and all) but had different physical appearances to not be starwars, probably not.

If it was very similar but had some very interesting gimicks that make 0 sense in a starwars setting, probably.

Being a certain genre doesnt mean much. I wanted to get into StarTrek Attack Wing because im a big startrek nut, but reading the rules and watching some players scared me off of it. Plus the models were hideous on top of it...had the models been great i probably would have gotten in anyway since "Rule of Cool" is big with me.

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No.  I also wouldn't have started playing if it had been based on prequels, expanded universe, various cartoons, or new movies.  And, even though I love the game mechanics, I'm irritated as more of the new movie and cartoon ships are added.  I don't blame FFG for adding them.  They need to continue to make money and that's the material that they have with which to work, but it does decrease my personal interest when I feel pressure to buy ships that I don't like from movies that I don't like.

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Seeing as I started playing Star Trek Attack Wing after X-Wing, I'd likely have played It even w/o X-Wing. It's not 100% that I would have, but likely. But if it hadn't been Star Wars OR Star Trek, chances are slim to none I would have picked it up.

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1 minute ago, Helias de Nappo said:

No.  I also wouldn't have started playing if it had been based on prequels, expanded universe, various cartoons, or new movies.  And, even though I love the game mechanics, I'm irritated as more of the new movie and cartoon ships are added.  I don't blame FFG for adding them.  They need to continue to make money and that's the material that they have with which to work, but it does decrease my personal interest when I feel pressure to buy ships that I don't like from movies that I don't like.

If it was Old Republic based i would have been totally fine with it. Theres some really awesome ship designs in that era. Sadly even the Prequels is a hazy inclusion so theres no way we'd get some of the epicness of the Old Republic.

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12 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

Well, Decipher lost due to Lucas wanting to support the new Hasbro subsidiary, as well as the embezzling that happened. WOTC just gave up on everything except Magic and D&D, likely thanks to the massive hit that Dreamblade caused them to take. Anyway, we know the license was renewed recently, so we have another 3-4 years to worry about it. 


Fascinating, I didn't know about the Decipher embezzling issues.  Were they misusing the piles of money we were spending to get our third copy of gems like Han Solo with Blaster Pistol wearing Cold Gear in the Millennium Falcon????? Who would have guessed! haha

Still, we are all indebted to Decipher to eternity.  They were just about the sole caretakers of Star Wars, and added more background and detail to the universe than all the EU authors combined.  Where would we be without Willrow Hood, or the names and or callsigns for a huge pile of the pilots from our game now?  They had the privilege of being able to add fluff to the canon at a time when LFL gave much less of a ****, and they did a very good job detailing the universe we know take for granted.

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6 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

 


In the general sense, I think it's true that most people wouldn't get into the game if it weren't Star Wars (e.g., few X-Wingers were rushing out to buy Wings of Glory stuff).

In the particular sense, as a player wanting to stay with the game, I would prefer for gameplay to be the focus over fluff.

I don't see these as mutually exclusive positions.

I was only trying to argue the former point.  And if people don't start the game, the second point is moot.

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