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benbaxter

Releasing a Ship(s) with multiple factions

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12 hours ago, Blue Five said:

I think it's less can't and more won't. Stick a model in the box and the perceived value goes up. They wouldn't be able to sell a card only expansion for the same price as if they stuck a repaint or two in there and doubled the size of the box. Compare and contrast Netrunner expansions for the price FFG believes the market will bear on card only releases.

 

Agreed, and those boxes don't even have cardboard in them, which I can only imagine increases the production costs dramatically.

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16 hours ago, Blue Five said:

I think it's less can't and more won't. Stick a model in the box and the perceived value goes up. They wouldn't be able to sell a card only expansion for the same price as if they stuck a repaint or two in there and doubled the size of the box. Compare and contrast Netrunner expansions for the price FFG believes the market will bear on card only releases.

If we can bring other FFG games into this discussion, let's consider the cards-and-cardstock Corellian Conflict expansion for Armada. I find it very hard to believe that X-Wing can't have something similar.

Probably not one big box, but three smaller packs, one per faction, for $15 retail. I'm thinking 12-16 new pilot cards (example: a couple each for X, Y, A, B, E, HWK) , 24-32 ship base tokens, about 24 upgrades (lots of duplicates of fixes, a few exclusive new general-purpose upgrades), new mission or mini-campaign.

For $20-$25 I would consider packing in other things like a new ion storm obstacle token, Range 1 and Range 1-2 rulers, reminder tokens for temporary and once-per-round effects (C-3PO, Palpatine, R2-F2, Kallus), and a Force Awakens Damage deck with faction-specific artwork on the backs. I would also consider adding Force mechanics this way, including a plastic window in the package so you can seeeee the yellow twelve-sided Force die that works with the new Force upgrade type introduced for the new Force-sensitive pilot cards in these packs which you will definitely be buying now.

Edited by DagobahDave

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I'm at the point that I'd love to see a card/cardstock only pack that would net me universal upgrades and crew from a faction I don't play. In my case that would be Rebels- I'd love to get Tailgunner and Vectored Thrusters, for example, without having to buy an ARC-170 because I don't believe I'll ever play the **** thing. Something like a Faction Booster pack, which would give you a couple of each of the upgrades that only come in one faction's ships.

 

But back the the OP, I don't know if we'll see a multi-faction ship that is multi-faction from the get-go. I think that FFG has pretty much established the way they like to multi-faction something, through a later expansion. There are plenty of ships that could be multi-faction, I just don't see FFG doing it at the ship's initial release. From a purely business perspective, it makes sense not to do it that way- more money is made by having customers buy two expansions than one.

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Here you go folks fill it in. Basic instructions

  • X-wing goes in Red
  • HWK-290 goes in Orange
  • Kihrax goes in yellow
  • Firespray-31 goes in blue
  • TIE Defender goes in Green
  • TIE Fighter goes in Purple
  • Assault Gunboat goes in Grey :P
  • Y-wing goes in White;)

3_circle_venn.jpg

Edited by Marinealver

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I can't think of any ships that belong to one faction today that actually belong in the imperial faction.

The only reason a firespray is in the imperial fleet is because it predates the whole scum faction and they wanted an iconic anti-Falcon.

All the scum ships would basically be the same characters just hired by the empire. Which is kind of silly to me.

I could see a few defector pilots in different faction ships (Wedge in a tie for example), but that would still be tied to an existing model of the imperial fleet.

I would like to see a yt2000 in scum/rebel with pilots flavored as such, using the mobile arc format to avoid more PWTs. Maybe have Emon as scum crew, Aeron as a crew (unclear if scum or rebel), Galin and Tomaas as scum pilots and Ace as a rebel pilot. Throw in a generic to round out the mix.

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3 hours ago, DagobahDave said:

Probably not one big box, but three smaller packs, one per faction, for $15 retail. I'm thinking 12-16 new pilot cards (example: a couple each for X, Y, A, B, E, HWK) , 24-32 ship base tokens, about 24 upgrades (lots of duplicates of fixes, a few exclusive new general-purpose upgrades), new mission or mini-campaign.

Fairly sure Corellian Conflict doesn't have that many cards in it. 12-16 new pilot cards? That's three to four ace packs in one go.

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1 hour ago, Blue Five said:

12-16 new pilot cards? That's three to four ace packs in one go.

What's the problem with that? Heroes of the Resistance has 8 new pilot cards. It really isn't that hard to develop new pilots for existing ships.

In terms of materials, a booster-pack worth of cards is certainly not a problem to produce.

In terms of playtesting, FFG does this all the time.

Edited by DagobahDave

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Quote

What's the problem with that? Heroes of the Resistance has 8 new pilot cards. It really isn't that hard to develop new pilots for existing ships.

Why would FFG do twice the work for half the selling price? They can make an expansion with eight pilot cards, repeat a generic or two, put two repaints in the box and sell it as an ace pack or they can not bundle in the ships, design twice as many cards and sell it for half the price.

Why would they do a card expansion when putting repaints in means less work for more reward?

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5 minutes ago, Blue Five said:

Why would they do a card expansion when putting repaints in means less work for more reward?

I don't think any of us can say if that's true, in terms of cost-effectiveness. What if it costs a lot more to manufacture a repaint than it does to develop cards for existing ships and playtest them?

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On 2/22/2017 at 0:08 PM, Marinealver said:

Here you go folks fill it in. Basic instructions

  • X-wing goes in Red
  • HWK-290 goes in Orange
  • Kihrax goes in yellow
  • Firespray-31 goes in blue
  • TIE Defender goes in Green
  • TIE Fighter goes in Purple
  • Assault Gunboat goes in Grey :P
  • Y-wing goes in White;)

3_circle_venn.jpg

 

On 2/22/2017 at 3:46 PM, YwingAce said:

Boom-Roasted.gif

I need to get the JBR7 pics to put inside the diagram. After I make it bigger which isn't too hard to do.

 

Edited by Marinealver

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12 hours ago, DagobahDave said:

I don't think any of us can say if that's true, in terms of cost-effectiveness. What if it costs a lot more to manufacture a repaint than it does to develop cards for existing ships and playtest them?

If it were more profitable to release packs with a large amount of new design work but no plastic models then why doesn't FFG do it?

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2 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

Obviously FFG missed the boat on the ARC as it should have had Imperial and Rebel pilots...heck, even Scum.

Why's that?

It's heavy fighter statted like a Rebel ship with a Rebel paintjob and the Rebel astromech slot.

You're mixing up should and could.

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2 minutes ago, Blue Five said:

Why's that?

It's heavy fighter statted like a Rebel ship with a Rebel paintjob and the Rebel astromech slot.

You're mixing up should and could.

I might be mad, but as I understand it the ARC was basically an Imperial ship as it was under the Emperors fleet at its inception, flown by clones. If it was re-purposed as the designers say, it would be old military cast offs that the Rebels reworked for service due to lack of resources.

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I don't see why that'd mean the Empire should have a slow dialled 3/1/6/3 limited aux arc crew torpedo astromech ship.

While lore is respected during design it's not the dominant force. FFG design ships to fill roles. Most Wanted doesn't exist to give Scum ships they have canonical access to, it exists to bring Scum up to a similar number of ships to the other factions.

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27 minutes ago, Blue Five said:

I don't see why that'd mean the Empire should have a slow dialled 3/1/6/3 limited aux arc crew torpedo astromech ship.

While lore is respected during design it's not the dominant force. FFG design ships to fill roles. Most Wanted doesn't exist to give Scum ships they have canonical access to, it exists to bring Scum up to a similar number of ships to the other factions.

So these are your thoughts on the subject, but you do easily see why the Rebels should have a decked out TIE fighter while the Empire should not have a "slow dialed 3/1/6/3...astromech ship" that they designed?

Imperials do have Astromechs and other droids in Cannon....and ARCs.....FYI. I just personally think the Imperial Faction has been illogically hamstrung and reduced in some very fun areas where the other two factions have been overly expanded; looking at the Scum faction wholeheartedly in this regard.

Maybe lore should be more than respected. Perhaps even more-so by the Rebels cartoon designers? Don't get me started on that. IDK, that last two sentences are strictly my opinion, please overlook those thoughts. I just think the ARC was a missed, potentially VERY cool opportunity, that's all.

 

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Maybe lore should be more than respected.

Gameplay > fluff. X-Wing is first and foremost a game. The backwards dial of the TIE defender and the heavier than canonical TIE/sf are that way to be mechanically distinct. Scum needed its own astromech slot because R2-D2 and the like aren't Rebel only. The Empire don't use copilot astromechs on any of their modern ships so making an Imperial astromech slot wouldn't be worth it.

But if you want a lore argument:

The ARC-170 is a Clone Wars era fighter. It was phased out a long time ago in favour of the TIE series. The various cells of the Alliance fix up whatever they can find but why would the Empire? They've no shortage of TIE fighters.

Quote

I just personally think the Imperial Faction has been illogically hamstrung and reduced in some very fun areas

Such as?

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4 hours ago, Blue Five said:

If it were more profitable to release packs with a large amount of new design work but no plastic models then why doesn't FFG do it?

Do you know if FFG is developing a cards-and-cardstock expansion for X-Wing right now or not?

I'll wager that you don't know. If you're honest, you have to admit that it's entirely possible that FFG is currently proving you wrong.

Edited by DagobahDave

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1 hour ago, Blue Five said:

Gameplay > fluff. X-Wing is first and foremost a game. The backwards dial of the TIE defender and the heavier than canonical TIE/sf are that way to be mechanically distinct. Scum needed its own astromech slot because R2-D2 and the like aren't Rebel only. The Empire don't use copilot astromechs on any of their modern ships so making an Imperial astromech slot wouldn't be worth it.

But if you want a lore argument:

The ARC-170 is a Clone Wars era fighter. It was phased out a long time ago in favour of the TIE series. The various cells of the Alliance fix up whatever they can find but why would the Empire? They've no shortage of TIE fighters.

Such as?

Interesting thoughts....I understand gameplay being more important as it is a game, but I do think there are some game mechanics that could be utilized by the Empire as well. Astromechs being one. Crew slots on ships with cannon crew (possibly to have an astromech?) being another.

You state that R2-D2 and the like aren't rebel only which is true. Wookieepedia defines one such droid, " R2-Q5 was charged with storing the Emperor's plans against the Rebel Alliance within its memory bank as well as being personally responsible for programming hyperspace co-ordinates directly into Emperor Palpatine's Shuttle during covert missions."

As far as the ARC-170 being a Clone Wars era fighter, that is true. But are you also stating that the game is to be set in a fixed time? If so, why the timeline variety of ships? And why would you assume that only Rebels would re-purpose a ship and not the Empire who would have access to potential fleets of them? The Empire would know the importance of covert missions (though X-Wing seems to be blind to this military and cannon necessity) and having such a ship would be of great use. Besides having a crew slot (jamming or stealing transmissions), it also would be well known by pilots, carrier ships and the military hierarchy. It is no stretch to think that it could be effectively utilized.

Although I love a good debate, I find your staunch dogma on this issue puzzling.

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18 hours ago, Ikka said:

I'm at the point that I'd love to see a card/cardstock only pack that would net me universal upgrades and crew from a faction I don't play. In my case that would be Rebels- I'd love to get Tailgunner and Vectored Thrusters, for example, without having to buy an ARC-170 because I don't believe I'll ever play the **** thing. Something like a Faction Booster pack, which would give you a couple of each of the upgrades that only come in one faction's ships.

 

But back the the OP, I don't know if we'll see a multi-faction ship that is multi-faction from the get-go. I think that FFG has pretty much established the way they like to multi-faction something, through a later expansion. There are plenty of ships that could be multi-faction, I just don't see FFG doing it at the ship's initial release. From a purely business perspective, it makes sense not to do it that way- more money is made by having customers buy two expansions than one.

Just as a side note they might get more money from a ship that starts as a muti-faction. For two reasons First if you only play one faction you would pic k up the ship for your faction. Possibly doubling sales to those players. And second if you are thinking of starting Into a new faction but unsure which way to jump. It could be a way to decide.

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Arc170 and V-wing could be in all 3 factions, theoretically. Imperial could have them as sector police or associated forces on far out worlds. Ships awaiting retirement when the TIE finally arrive. Or maybe some commander delaying the arrival of the deathtraps commonly known as TIE l/n, far out there probably is a shortage of good pilots.

Gamewise though: the V wings niche is filled, there are already lots of sqishy 2-attack-dice ships. And both the Arc and the V-wing would suffer from the problem that there aren't any Imp Astromechs. Making a new upgrade category for just 1-2 ships would suffer the same problem Illicit or Tech had in the beginning, just too few things existing.

Totally neutral mercs for hire? Problem to balance them right. For scenarios though you could have fun stuff like when are they turning up, are they in time? Will they defect?

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3 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

You state that R2-D2 and the like aren't rebel only which is true. Wookieepedia defines one such droid, " R2-Q5 was charged with storing the Emperor's plans against the Rebel Alliance within its memory bank as well as being personally responsible for programming hyperspace co-ordinates directly into Emperor Palpatine's Shuttle during covert missions."

My understanding is that the game is based in the Galactic Civil War era. At that point the empire weren't using astromechs in small fighters. IIRC they did have some on the Death Star, and it definitely makes sense to store sensitive data on something like a droid instead of a shipboard computer. That all said, it sounds like R2-Q5 would be a good fit as a crew card.

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5 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

Imperials do have Astromechs and other droids in Cannon....and ARCs.....FYI. I just personally think the Imperial Faction has been illogically hamstrung and reduced in some very fun areas where the other two factions have been overly expanded; looking at the Scum faction wholeheartedly in this regard.

I think we all know the fix for the Empire's lack of variety:

 

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