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I'm willing to try playtesting Zuckess on a c-roc once or twice, because the point that a huge ship has a harder time with dice mods is fair. However, I really feel a better answer to this would be to do some new huge ship only crew with a game effect that accomplishes the dice mod at a cost of something. Zuckess not giving the epic stress means no other mechanics could be used against it that you could on a standard ship.

 

Maybe something like Prince Xizor crew, scum huge only. Spend 1 energy to turn an eyeball into a hit result (or make it any amount of energy for any amount of eyeball results?)

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18 hours ago, Transmogrifier said:

"Late Q1" was the original ETA, so adjusting for the usual delays I'd guess late April?

Q1 is April-May-June. Compagnies work with the financial year (April 1st to March 31th), not the civil year (January 1st to December 31th).

 

Q1 is April-May-June

Q2 is July- August-September

Q3 is October-November-December

Q4 is January-February-March

Edited by Wildhorn

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I've said it before, and I will say it here again. Zuckuss on an epic isn't making a huge splash. Especially on an epic with just one attack a round. I really like the design of the c-roc. It is very scummy, the lack of the coordinate action means it will never support a fleet as well as the other 2 small epics. The way it needs to play is controling the opponents ships with jam etc. Should be interesting to play against.

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I'm not convinced Zuckuss will be too broken on this because it has no way to access focus tokens or modifying focus results (outside of re-rolls). Sure Zuckuss is powerful but on a ship with a range restricted weapon and less ways of modifying than normal; it may just work out about where the other ships are. It's also only going to be useful against high AGI ships as forcing a re-roll on other epic ships i going to be pointless/impossible 90% of the time. whilst this seems like a beast of a Huge ship; Scum lacks the support options Rebels and Imps have access to to turn their huge ships into utter monsters.

Imperials can stick jonus in a TIE shuttle with systems officer next to the raider for re-rolls without ever taking a TL and still get TL's. with Automated protocols it can reinforce (or recover) and co-ordinate whilst still getting a TL and re-rolls on every attack. If you're using Ordnance Tubes then whack Ordnance Experts on there for ALL THE RE-ROLLS and have Jendon cruise along to give another TL out.

Rebels can have Shara Bey with weapons engineer and M9-G8 along with Tukatu cruising along next to CR-90 with more hardpoints giving it re-rolls, TL's & focus tokens.

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1 hour ago, lazycomet said:

 

a) Focus, evade, and stress tokens do not affect huge ships.

b) [Esege] When another friendly ship at Range 1-2 is attacking, it may treat your focus tokens as its own.

So no, [Esege] doesn't allow an Epic Ship to "spend" a focus, ever. Period.

Sky isn't falling, I never said it was. Zuckuss-Epic-Exploit isn't about Damage Potential or even Winning Games... it's about denying other STRESS BROKERS (Latts Razzi, BMST, etc) from even tapping into the Pool that **should** still be there even if Epic Ships ignore stress.

Epics cannot be assigned these tokens and they immediately discard them. This doesn't mean they can't use them via Esege.

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i actually dont see any reason why they wouldnt be able to use someone elses' tokens. Like Costi said, the rule only forces them to immediately discard any focus, evade, or stress tokens they receive. It does not say they may never resolve a focus effect period. 

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C-Roc will be taking crits much faster than other ships - Zuckuss won't be around very long if the C-Roc is focused on.  Usually, I can take out a Gozanti in a couple of shots if I'm trying. Of course, then I've got to deal with all the bombers he unleashed, but whatever.  C-Roc doesn't have docking clamps, let them have a HLC shot.  The nice thing about Epic, is that it feels way more like Star Wars because ships are flying everywhere and getting gunned down frequently.

I'd say the Raider has a significant step up with it's defense and attacks over the Tantive just from design, and having played the Rebel Epic exclusively, it still hasn't kept me from winning some games.  Honestly I'd be more concerned over multiple IGs with HLC over the C-roc in Epic any day.  Good Agility, crazy abilities, make them extremely lethal more so than the C-roc with or without zuckuss

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1 minute ago, buckero0 said:

Honestly I'd be more concerned over multiple IGs with HLC over the C-roc in Epic any day.  Good Agility, crazy abilities, make them extremely lethal more so than the C-roc with or without zuckuss

Or A, B & C with the crew IG on a C-ROC with Zuckuss :P 

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2 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

I'm willing to try playtesting Zuckess on a c-roc once or twice, because the point that a huge ship has a harder time with dice mods is fair. However, I really feel a better answer to this would be to do some new huge ship only crew with a game effect that accomplishes the dice mod at a cost of something. Zuckess not giving the epic stress means no other mechanics could be used against it that you could on a standard ship.

 

Maybe something like Prince Xizor crew, scum huge only. Spend 1 energy to turn an eyeball into a hit result (or make it any amount of energy for any amount of eyeball results?)

Somebody had to have said this already, but Fleet Officer and General Hux also assign stress as a penalty, but both are legal on huge ships that discard stress immediately upon receiving them. There's precedent for this, and it just makes these crew upgrades great for huge ships (except that General Hux and Fleet Officer require you to spend an action).

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I feel that the  Broken Horn  title is really there for the extra energy.  You also get a nifty ability that might work.  Also note that the special ability can also work on a section that the Reinforce token isn't at.  So....you have shields down on the front, but are running away.  One guy gets a lucky shot on the front and it's a crit.....drop the reinforce token to stop that crit on the front.

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I think Merchant One is my go-to title when I'm not sure what I am building, but I'll certainly make use of Broken Horn as well. With only two crew slots standard (one mistake I hadn't considered before because I kept using the other title for planning) it's a little less clear who goes on it but it's a good idea either way. I like both the ability and the extra energy. 

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1 hour ago, Parakitor said:

Somebody had to have said this already, but Fleet Officer and General Hux also assign stress as a penalty, but both are legal on huge ships that discard stress immediately upon receiving them. There's precedent for this, and it just makes these crew upgrades great for huge ships (except that General Hux and Fleet Officer require you to spend an action).


Fsure, it is this ACTION that keeps Hux and Fleet Officer from being "Stress as Currency." I believe the only cards currently are Scum: Zuckuss, Latts Razi, and BlackMarketSlicerTools.

The problem is that "immediately discard stress" is out-dated and devalues the new "Stress as Currency" cards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, costi said:

Epics cannot be assigned these tokens and they immediately discard them. This doesn't mean they can't use them via Esege.

Give it up. "Focus, evade, and stress tokens do not affect huge ships..." is straight out of the rulebook. If your EPIC ships are spending Esege's FOCUS tokens, you are breaking the rules of Epic.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

i actually dont see any reason why they wouldnt be able to use someone elses' tokens. Like Costi said, the rule only forces them to immediately discard any focus, evade, or stress tokens they receive. It does not say they may never resolve a focus effect period. 

 

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/x-wing/support/X-Wing-Huge-Ship-Rules.pdf

Page 4.

An Epic Ship CAN treat Esege's Focus token as if it were their own... Pity that means they cannot spend them. Kudos to the TXT on Esege.

 

 

 

 

Edited by lazycomet

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1 minute ago, lazycomet said:


Fsure, it is this ACTION that keeps Hux and Fleet Officer from being "Stress as Currency." I believe the only cards currently are Scum: Zuckuss, Latts Razi, and BlackMarketSlicerTools.

The problem is that "immediately discard stress" is out-dated and devalues the new "Stress as Currency" cards.

I don't consider Zuckuss as "Stress as Currency." His card is quite different from Latts Razi crew and Black Market Slicer Tools. The stress is clearly a penalty for the benefit of rerolling dice - it's just that the huge ship doesn't take that penalty.

2 minutes ago, lazycomet said:

Give it up. "Focus, evade, and stress tokens do not affect huge ships..." is straight out of the rulebook. If your EPIC ships are spending Esege's FOCUS tokens, you are breaking the rules of Epic.

Huh. You see, the odd thing is that I could have sworn that somebody was using Esege to support a CR90 at the Epic tournament at GenCon last year. When people first started talking about Esege Tuketu, something felt wrong to me, and now I know why. I think you're absolutely right.

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On 10/12/2015 at 6:44 AM, WDWolf said:

 

I thought the same and then I asked and it turns out you can....

 

"Hello William,

 
In response to your rules question:

 

Rules Question:

 

Does Esege Tuketu's ability work with the Tantive IV? Esege Tuketu: "when another friendly ship at range 1-2 is attacking, it may treat your 
focus
 token as its own." Can the Tantive use this 
focus
? Thanks!

 

 
Yes, the CR90 is able to spend Esege’s focus tokens.
 
Thanks for playing,

 

Frank Brooks
Game Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
 

They need to update the FAQ for huge ships. This has been ruled but hasn't been included in the FAQ. The same goes for Automated Protocols providing a free action even though Huge ships cannot take free actions.

Edited by Budgernaut

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5 minutes ago, lazycomet said:

 

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/x-wing/support/X-Wing-Huge-Ship-Rules.pdf

Page 4.

And Epic Ship CAN treat Esege's Focus token as if it were their own... Pity that means they cannot spend them. Kudos to the TXT on Esege.

 

 

 

 

The Eskegee has always been the question. Sure Eskegee Recon seems to be a good CR-90 support (if it was the only way huge ships can spend focus) and since it will only work wit ha CR-90 it won't have to worry about being completely broken. 

Imperials have their counterpart too in the form of Jonus. Best of all Jonus can be used for both Raider and Gozanti meaning even more rerolls for hardpoint or even munition weapons. This seems more like Standard Huge ship dice modification in the form of as many rerolls you can get where Eskegee would be the more unconventional dice modification. Still FFG needs to put that FAQ on a Huge ship rules.

As far as internal builds such as crew Rebels have Han Solo<crew> (again giving rebels the ability to modify focus results) where Imperials have Darth Vader <crew> (which doesn't care if the attack hits or misses). So even in comparison Zuckuss isn't that much different and seems like the best scum counterpart. He doesn't modify his attacks or add in damage. All he does is modify your defense roll. Sounds like a Scum thing to do.

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11 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

I don't consider Zuckuss as "Stress as Currency." His card is quite different from Latts Razi crew and Black Market Slicer Tools. The stress is clearly a penalty for the benefit of rerolling dice - it's just that the huge ship doesn't take that penalty.

Huh. You see, the odd thing is that I could have sworn that somebody was using Esege to support a CR90 at the Epic tournament at GenCon last year. When people first started talking about Esege Tuketu, something felt wrong to me, and now I know why. I think you're absolutely right.

I would concede your point if Zuckuss could only reroll 1 dice per round at the penalty of 1 stress... but as it is written, he SPENDS his null/low_stress state for effect. It's pure currency.

I can't believe Epic was played so incredibly wrong/broken in a tournament. It's clear as day that an EPIC SHIP cannot spend the focus token that Esege clearly states must be played "as if it were their own." Their own being so obviously null and void.

 

Edited by lazycomet

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7 minutes ago, Ken at Sunrise said:

Unless the card overrides the rules as Automated Protocol does?

Do you mean the Esege cardtxt? "When another friendly ship at Range 1-2 is attacking, it may treat your focus tokens as its own."

FOCUS have no effect on Epic Ships.

Epics CAN use Esege's FOCUS token, but not as one of Esege's FOCUS tokens... instead as if they were one of the ZERO EFFECT FOCUS tokens somehow assigned to said Epic.

 

Edited by lazycomet

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We get the argument, @lazycomet.  The fact that there's an equally compelling argument on the other side is why the question was asked of a designer.  Personally, I can see both sides.

Given the fragility of Huge ships, and how generally un-scary they are compared to equivalent points of Small and Large ships, I tend to think ruling on the side of using Esege is the right way to go.

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