Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Hilman

Combined Op-fire with MGs

Recommended Posts

After having read a post in the forum (that I can’t find again) I became unsure about the MGs Rapid-Op-Fire when combining with other units.

Set up:

Squad A: 4 regulars (in range, and in Op)

Squad B: MG and 2 regulars (in range, and in Op)

Squad C: MG and 2 regulars (in range, and in Op)

What of the following scenarios are correct?

1.       Only the MGs from B & C combine op-fire without becoming fatigued

2.       Only the MGs from B & C and the full squad A combine op-fire resulting in fatiguing A but B&C are still in Op

 

We have always played like in 1. but not like in 2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think both your possibilities are correct.

Whatever unit in OF can participate in OF with MG crews (if it is in range and have LOS), with the fact that it thereafter becomes fatigued (unless it is not another MG crew :-)).

Only problem may be worse chance of hit (long range) (if combining OF with infantry) in case of trucks or tracks.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hilman,

I have always played that option 1 is correct and option 2 is not.  However, I can see how a close reading of the "Rapid Op Fire" rules would support option 2.  Here's the excerpt from page 37 of the ToI rulebook:

"If a squad with one or more machine gun crews are in Op Fire mode, the squad may execute an Op Fire attack without becoming fatigued - as long as only the machine gun crew(s) participate in the Op Fire attack.  This also applies to supporting another Op Fire attack with combined fire.

"When such a squad makes and Op Fire attack with other figure types in the same squad contributing to the attack, the unit is fatigued as normal after the attack."

The rules only talk about the same squad, not others.  This seems to imply that MG crews can support (or lead) Op Fire attacks without becoming fatigued, as long as the non-MG infantry in their own squad don't participate, even if the other squads firing aren't MGs.

Hmm... I wonder if this was the true intent of the rules or just an oversight?  The part about "this applies to supporting another Op Fire attack with combined fire" makes me think that mixing in anything else but an MG crew will fatigue all the units involved.  I could easily be wrong though, and sadly the example given doesn't deal with this situation, or even with multiple MGs being activated for a concentrated Op Fire attack.

Anyone else have anything to add?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is indeed quite hard to interpret the rules covering this.  Players who play according to #2: How well does it work when applying interpretation #2? Balance etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMHO the strictest reading of the rule is that a MG crew will be fatigued if it combines fire in an Op Fire attack with a non-MG crew model. Again with page 37:

Rapid Op Fire: If a squad with one or more machine gun crews are in Op Fire mode, the squad may execute an Op Fire attack without becoming fatigued – as long as only the machine gun crew(s) participate in the Op Fire attack. This also applies to supporting another Op Fire attack with combined fire.

So:

A. Squad with MG fires.

B. If only MG crews are firing, they aren't fatigued.

C. This applies to combined fire as well.

Thus, if a non MG crew model fires during an attack, regardless of if it is normal or combined fire, the MG crew will be fatigued.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An interesting debate :-)

Rapid Op Fire: If a squad with one or more machine gun crews are in Op Fire mode, the squad may execute an Op Fire attack without becoming fatigued – as long as only the machine gun crew(s) participate in the Op Fire attack. This also applies to supporting another Op Fire attack with combined fire.

I interpret the words (in bold) relating only to a squad, that a MG crew is a member, not to other possible squads participating in an OF.

I see no disbalance if a squad with a MG in OF (when only MG fires) does not become fatigued, whether supporting or leading OF together with another squad (containing only infantry) in OF (that does become fatigued).

Otherwise MG crews would behave differently (although not other members of their squad would fire during an OF) if making OF alone or making OF together with a non-MG squad(s).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

However, after taking another close look at the rules as written:

Rapid Op Fire: If a squad with one or more machine gun crews
are in Op Fire mode, the squad may execute an Op Fire attack
without becoming fatigued – as long as only the machine gun
crew(s) participate in the Op Fire attack. This also applies to
supporting another Op Fire attack with combined fire.
When such a squad makes an Op Fire attack with other figure
types in the same squad contributing to the attack, the unit is
fatigued as normal after the attack.

I am no longer so sure. Especially the last sentence stresses the "in the same squad", so MGs are probably not fatigued when combining OP fire with OTHER squads...

From now on I am going to use this interpretation. It will be interesting to see if it makes a big difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Being a closet rules lawyer myself I can see how there could be some confusion here but I think if parsed properly that it works out that MGs used in an op-fire (combined with other non-MGs outside of their squad or not) do not become fatigued.

Rapid Op Fire

     If a squad with one or more machine gun crews are in Op Fire mode, the squad may execute an Op Fire attack without becoming fatigued – as long as only the machine gun crew(s) participate in the Op Fire attack.

     This also applies to supporting another Op Fire attack with combined fire.

     When such a squad makes an Op Fire attack with other figure types in the same squad contributing to the attack, the unit is fatigued as normal after the attack.

Part 1 everyone seems to be in agreement with.  Part 2 says that Part 1 still applies when doing a combined Op Fire with other squads.  Part 3 affirms what we understand about part 1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After looking at this again I have become convinced I have been playing this rule incorrectly.

Because of the qualifier in "Rule #3", it appears that an Op Firing squad with MG crews are only fatigued if non-MG figures in the same squad participate in the Op Fire. The participation of non MG crew figures in other squads does not seem to have any bearing on whether or not the MG crews become fatigued.
 
In short, I now agree with you guys. The MG crews are only fatigued if members of their own squad participate in an Op Fire attack. Fortunately, this is also the most logical answer as well. Why should the MG crew become fatigued just because they are supporting someone else?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...